Allah is the One God of Abraham

[Milliardo]

But the problem is, is that God cursed Ishmael, saying that his covenant would be with Issac… Ishmael would be a “Wild ***” of a man and his hand will be against everyone,and everyone against him…He is always accredited as the older rejected son in the bible,…

Even though Ishmael grew up into a big nation just like God said it dosen’t mean that the covenant is with him… It is with Issac… Thats where Islam splits…

What Islam rejects is the notion that Israel is the chosen nation; it never rejected God. That is why they still recognize the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but does not recognize Israel. There is a difference between rejecting Israel and rejecting God, the same way that Jews reject Christ and His Church but still worship the same God we worship.

 

[BelFarfalla]

It is all right to disagree with the Church, especially on non-Christian matters. Who is this nameless Church person who said that the muslim allah is the Christian god? Seems to me the Church is often wrong. This is one such example, IMHO.

You can never convince me that YOUR GOD condones persecution of Christians, and I’m not even a believer.

If you were to read all the links provided above you’d see the Church’s take on it… Muslims believe that there is only one God as do Christians and Jews.

However as you have pointed out, the things they believe about the one God are often times wrong. It is not God who wants to persecute Christians. It was Muhammad who wanted to, to he taught something false.

 

[rbarcia]

The extreme view that Allah is some other god than the God of Abraham is simply a ridiculous notion. People who propogate this view have concocted a lie that Allah is anything other than the Arabic way to speak of the one monotheistic God of the children of Isreal (as the Quran claims).

The Arabic term “Allah” is a combination of two words, “AL” and “ILAH”.

“Al” is the definite article in Arabic. semitic linguists believe that the original root definite article of all semitic languages was “Hal.” with Hebrew it evolved as “Ha” and Arabic as “Al”.

“ILAH” means divinity or “god” but “ILAH” is not definite. It can be made feminine or it can be made plural and thus does not always convey the absoluteness of THE ONE God, So accordingly, when speaking of THE ONE God of monotheism, the Qur’an says “AL-ILAH” which is conjugated into “ALLAH”.

Being the God of just Abraham is not enough to say you know God. You must woroship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

**

Ex

5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

Romans 9

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”
10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

**

Worshiping the God of Abraham alone is of no value. But more so then Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Without the Son, you do not have the Father.

If you do not know Jesus (not the Islamic fake Jesus, but the Son of God).

**
John 14:6

6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

**

It is not an extremem view, the allah worshiped by muslims is no god at all.

 

[Potato1]

In all our pc hooey, in every idiotic disscussion even on these forums did anyone ever ask a muslim if they worship our God? I wonder what the clerics would say… what the terrorists, woud say, people in Iran, Syria, Al Quida… even they extreme muslims on these boards… especially if we described our God as He is, A Trinity, with the second person as Jesus. It is almost laughable the ego of us Catholics to argue on who worships our God (weather they want to or not) Allah is a liar… A far away “god” who treats his people as dogs. (this has been explained to me by many muslims) That is not my God. Go ahead and replace Gods names, be it Jesus, God, Father, Abba,…I can see it now, Glory be to the allah, the allah and the holy allah… Our allah who art in heaven. Oh my allah, forgive us our sins… Geese people if you wont go so far as to condemn islam and thier god as untrue in the name of ecumenism, (which was never supposed to go past Chrisian unity) then at least have enough respect for the poor muslims to let them have and worship thier own god.

 

[dessert]

The “Magisterium”, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that Muslims worship the same God. The issue is not which God, as there is only One God. The issue is that some of the things that Muslims believe about God are misguided at best.

You are right that for Catholics that should settle it. If a Catholic does not agree, then contemplation on the topic might be in order.

CCC; The Church and non-Christians

839;“Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”
THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE CHURCH WITH THE JEWISH PEOPLE When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, " the first to hear the Word of God " . The Jewish Faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”. (Romans 9;4-5) “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.” (Romans 11;29) CCC

CCC 841; THE CHURCH’S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE MUSLIMS
"The Plan of Salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day. "

 

[dessert]

In all our pc hooey, in every idiotic disscussion even on these forums did anyone ever ask a muslim if they worship our God? I wonder what the clerics would say… what the terrorists, woud say, people in Iran, Syria, Al Quida… even they extreme muslims on these boards… especially if we described our God as He is, A Trinity, with the second person as Jesus. It is almost laughable the ego of us Catholics to argue on who worships our God (weather they want to or not) Allah is a liar… A far away “god” who treats his people as dogs. (this has been explained to me by many muslims) That is not my God. Go ahead and replace Gods names, be it Jesus, God, Father, Abba,…I can see it now, Glory be to the allah, the allah and the holy allah… Our allah who art in heaven. Oh my allah, forgive us our sins… Geese people if you wont go so far as to condemn islam and thier god as untrue in the name of ecumenism, (which was never supposed to go past Chrisian unity) then at least have enough respect for the poor muslims to let them have and worship thier own god.

THEY say they worship the one God with the truth, their form of truth and they think we have our form of truth. But they do not recognize Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Messiah so they are similar to the Jews that don’t believe that the Messiah has come or they believe that Mohamad is their last prophet.
But God said that this is my Son in whom I am well pleased so in a sense they are calling our one God a liar. In fact also the entire gospels as that is what the CCC says that is the basis of the Church. This CAF is our house. Let them, worship in their own house. They are invited guests. They don’t worship here.
Dessert

 

[Pjs2ejs]

Wow, I am concerned that some Catholics on this Forum believe the CCC is negotiable and not dogmatic.

And now it seems we need an interpreter for the CCC.

It is very clear. I will let it speak for itself.

 

[Potato1]

Wow, I am concerned that some Catholics on this Forum believe the CCC is negotiable and not dogmatic.

And now it seems we need an interpreter for the CCC.

It is very clear. I will let it speak for itself.

Wow, I am concerned that some here think that the CCC is the inspired Word of God. on par with the Bible or even above it. The CCC contains the dogma of the faith. Every absolute is in it for the Christian faith but there are teachings (with a little t) that are in it as well. Non esentials to the faith. That is what we are talking about. The CCC is thrown about here as an infallible work. Used the way that protestants us the Bible. “That is not how I read it” To me it says…" we quote and requote in an endless debate over our side. Beleiving that allah is our God is NOT an essential, it isn’t even close to an infallible teaching. Take the CCC and use it for its intended purpose, study it, be a scholar and understand what it is and which of your teachings are esential to get you to heaven and to help others do the same. And for GOD’s sake, EVANGELIZE muslims. If you truley care about them. Show them the one True God. Every religin seems to believe they are worshiping the Truth but only one is I have yet to find a religion that says they are worshiping a god but not the true one. So the argument that they think they worship the God of Abraham is mute.

 

[Pjs2ejs]

Potato, tell me exactly what in the CCC is a little t and to be taken lightly. And why you feel that. These non-essentials you talk about, please elaborate. By the way, the CCC was infallibly written by the Magesterium. That’s how it works in the Catholic Church. There are no errors in it.

Scripture/Tradition/Magesterium.

 

[Potato1]

Potato, tell me exactly what in the CCC is a little t and to be taken lightly. And why you feel that. These non-essentials you talk about, please elaborate. By the way, the CCC was infallibly written by the Magesterium. That’s how it works in the Catholic Church. There are no errors in it.

Scripture/Tradition/Magesterium.

Thre have been many "chatechisms over the years. Does it contain infallible Truth of course… but is it in itself infallible , NO. And the burden is on you to show where the Church even asserts that. It is a "encyclopedia… a cumulation, a history of our faith it is not SCRIPTURE. As a Catholic you really should know this. Please take the time to read the many threads on these forums that discuss this. Understand that I am not saying anything contradictory to the CCC but only what the Church holds that I must believe and what I can believe are two different things. Please feel free to start a new thread on this subject and invite me. Or PM me if you want.

 

[Pjs2ejs]

Potato, I appreciate your opinion of my faith and knowledge (not really) but would you please give me an example of these non-essentials you speak about in the CCC? Three would suffice. That was my question.

JPII made it perfectly clear that these are the RULES of the faith. I guess you can have your own opinions but the Church teaches that Muslims worship the same God. You better believe it my friend.

 

[Potato1]

Potato, I appreciate your opinion of my faith and knowledge (not really) but would you please give me an example of these non-essentials you speak about in the CCC? Three would suffice. That was my question.

JPII made it perfectly clear that these are the RULES of the faith. I guess you can have your own opinions but the Church teaches that Muslims worship the same God. You better believe it my friend.

I wonder if our friends at the Traditional Catholisism forum would agree. Teachings such as Salvation of unbaptised, Muslims worshiping the same God. etc are teachings not DOGMA. I dont have to believe them. Or what, I go to hell? Your position is rediculous ignorant and wrong. If you want to continue this little tangent Please PM or start a new thread but lets not hijack this one.

 

[exoflare]

I wonder if our friends at the Traditional Catholisism forum would agree. Teachings such as Salvation of unbaptised, Muslims worshiping the same God. etc are teachings not DOGMA. I dont have to believe them. Or what, I go to hell? Your position is rediculous ignorant and wrong. If you want to continue this little tangent Please PM or start a new thread but lets not hijack this one.

Well, the Catechism doesn’t even say that Muslims worship the God of Abraham. It says they PROFESS to worship the God of Abraham. I’m surprised how many people have actually started to believe all this bunk about the Church accepting Islam now. It seems today’s Catechism is getting even more twisted and bent out of shape by word-of-mouth than Vatican II.

 

[Potato1]

Well, the Catechism doesn’t even say that Muslims worship the God of Abraham. It says they PROFESS to worship the God of Abraham. I’m surprised how many people have actually started to believe all this bunk about the Church accepting Islam now. It seems today’s Catechism is getting even more twisted and bent out of shape by word-of-mouth than Vatican II.

Amen Brother. Maybe we need a revised, king james version of the CCC

 

[Potato1]

It seems today’s Catechism is getting even more twisted and bent out of shape by word-of-mouth than Vatican II.

I wonder what tomorrows CCC will say.

 

[BelFarfalla]

I wonder what tomorrows CCC will say.

How often do you think a CCC is published?

 

[Potato1]

How often do you think a CCC is published?

Well in the last 150 years I can think of 2. Do you think the CCC is as old as the Church? Do you think some teachings in it are the same as 1000 years ago?
Allah is from the devil not from God.

 

[Zooey]

If you are a monotheist, and believe that God-created “spirits” can masquerade as “The God” (aka capital “G” God), as well as various supposedly co-equal “gods”, then you are a monotheist who realises that “spirits” can be quite intelligent and “tricky”.

Allah is “THE god” because he called himself so, or had one of his minions do it for him, to that fellow Mamet.

While it’s true that the “typical” moslem does indeed believe in the One God, who IS actually God, the koran is a deceptive counterfeit of God’s “words” told by a great deceiver, probably through a slightly lesser deceiver, to a great dupe.

Why do I believe this? Because Allah rejects the Holy Trinity, which invalidates Allah as being God.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

This is a terrific post!! Thank you for putting this out on the table!!

 

[Zooey]

Okay, I have something I want to throw out here:
I am a “junior”. I was named for my mother.
My mother was named for her grandmother…I never had the pleasure of meeting this particular grandmother, but that matters not: The fact is, that there has been, since the 1860’s, a woman around these United States with exactly the same name as hers. There still is: three quarters of a century after her death, there is still this person with the same name…who, as I say, never clapped eyes on her: She died two decades before I was born.
Now,then, are we all the same person?? Can I show up at the family reunion, and claim to be everybody’s great-aunt?? Well, sure, I can. I can claim to be 140 years old, if I choose to. I can, for that matter, claim to be my mother…but the state of New York is very unlikely to agree to paying me her retirement pension.

All of which is very much germane to the issue at hand. The CCC says that “Muslims profess to worship the God of Abraham”. It does **not **say, that Muslims are right to say that; it simply acknowledges a fact about what Muslims believe.
As I say: I can claim to be my own great-grandmother. I can claim it until I’m blue, but guess what?? It’s a tremendous load of codswallop.
And speaking of tremendous loads of codswallop…:coffeeread: :coffeeread: :coffeeread:

 

[Pjs2ejs]

Boy Potato, I’m wondering where in all of Christianity does it say to call people names. I guess it wouldn’t matter if it were in the CCC. But again, you have not answered my question which for the third time, has been, “What in the CCC is non-essential to our faith?” I don’t care if I have hijacked this thread, you owe me an answer. When you call my Catechism a history book or an encyclopedia for crying out loud, you need to answer questions like this. Or would I be ignorant ridiculous and wrong?

Scripture, Tradition, Magesterium