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hasantas said:
Which is close to you İslam or christianity?

You have a powerful faith but the inspiration which came to Bahaullah is not revelation which came to prophets. Perhaps Bahaullah had not known that he was not a prophet. Because Bahaullah had not standart of prophets. Many moraly HIGH people should make that mistake. They are used to get inspiration but they may think that they got revelation. You do not deny İslam totaly but some thoughts of them conflict with tawhid which Allah is but one God. And yet Bab was a former muslim and later claimed to be Bab(gate) to go Mahdi and later claimed to be a prophet. Do you not see the conflict?
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Thank you hasantas, I respect and understated your point of view - The Faith of Muhammad and the Koran are a link needed to Believe in Allah, thus as it is a Revelation after Jesus the Christ it does correct mistakes that were creeping into Christianity.

No I see no conflict, in fact I see perfect Harmony of Faiths. I found Muhammad because of the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

I have studies their Lives and Message for now 30 years and have concluded if they are not who they Claim to be, then Muhammad, Jesus Christ Moses and all the Prophets are also not who they claimed to be.

The conflict has always and I repeat Always come about, when Mankind rejects what becomes and Obvious Message from God.

I also understand that the Revelations of the Bab and Baha’u’llah were Born in times of much Turmoil, the Turmoil increased by these messages. In those times during the unfettered Slaughter of the new believers, some of those believers did indeed practice the defense of their Faith and a couple went beyond Defense to attack which caused much more turmoil. All this is recorded.

What I have found is that much propaganda has been given to try to eradicate this New religion among Muslims. But in the end the Truth Prevails.

As you like to share the Truth of Muhammad, I would also hope you could find the time to look at the other side of the story of the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

If it is not offense to you i will say “Assalamu ‘alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh”

Regards Tony
 
TonyBS said:
Thank you hasantas, I respect and understated your point of view - The Faith of Muhammad and the Koran are a link needed to Believe in Allah, thus as it is a Revelation after Jesus the Christ it does correct mistakes that were creeping into Christianity.

No I see no conflict, in fact I see perfect Harmony of Faiths. I found Muhammad because of the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

I have studies their Lives and Message for now 30 years and have concluded if they are not who they Claim to be, then Muhammad, Jesus Christ Moses and all the Prophets are also not who they claimed to be.

The conflict has always and I repeat Always come about, when Mankind rejects what becomes and Obvious Message from God.

I also understand that the Revelations of the Bab and Baha’u’llah were Born in times of much Turmoil, the Turmoil increased by these messages. In those times during the unfettered Slaughter of the new believers, some of those believers did indeed practice the defense of their Faith and a couple went beyond Defense to attack which caused much more turmoil. All this is recorded.

What I have found is that much propaganda has been given to try to eradicate this New religion among Muslims. But in the end the Truth Prevails.

As you like to share the Truth of Muhammad, I would also hope you could find the time to look at the other side of the story of the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

If it is not offense to you i will say “Assalamu ‘alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh”

Regards Tony
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You’re such a beautiful example of the Baha’i spirit Tony.

I learn so much from your spirit and love for all!!

:hug3:

.
 
Servant19 said:
You’re such a beautiful example of the Baha’i spirit Tony.

I learn so much from your spirit and love for all!! :hug3: .
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God bless His Oneness Servant as we know it is from God that all good is made manifest, if look at ourselves we are no the black in the eye of a dead ant :extrahappy::extrahappy:

To all :grouphug::blessyou:

Regards Tony
 
808Catholic said:
I thought Islam taught that Jesus was an Islamic prophet. Why not follow Jesus to Allah?
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By following Muhammad, He is True and Sincere in Following Jesus to Allah as well. as Jesus foretold of the revelation of Muhammad and what was to come.

Regards Tony
 
This is a provisional Translation, but I share it for all the Followers of Allah

Baha’u’llah’s Prayer for Muslims

By Omid Ghaemmaghami

Editor’s Note: The Baha’i Faith holds Islam, and indeed all divine religions, in the highest esteem and considers them all to be “the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future.” Towards contributing to a more positive Islamic-Baha’i dialogue, Iran Press Watch is pleased to share a translation of the following prayer of Baha’u’llah contributed by one of our readers.

He is God – Exalted be He, the Lord of Majesty and Power!
I plead my grief and sorrow unto God, the Lord of all humankind. The affairs of men have been shaken, the nations have become perturbed and Islam has been weakened thereby. The enemies have afflicted it from all sides and it remains encompassed by them. Thus it behooveth the people of God to invoke Him in the morning and the night-season, to beseech Him to graciously aid the Muslims, one and all, to do that which is pleasing and seemly, to exalt them by His Command and through the power of His Sovereign Might, to make them aware of that which will exalt their stations, to change their abasement into might, their poverty into wealth, their destruction into advancement, their distress into peace of mind and their fear into security and tranquility.
Verily, He is the All-Merciful. There is none other God but Him, the Compassionate, All-Bountiful.
  • [Provisional translation of a prayer revealed by Baha’u’llah. The original Arabic of this prayer was published by the Baha’i International Community in a short compilation of Baha’i Writings on the station of the Prophet Muhammad. This compilation is available for download at the following site: http://reference.bahai.org/download/mra-ar-pdf.zip. (The prayer is found on pp. 8-9.)
Regards Tony
 
TonyBS said:
By following Muhammad, He is True and Sincere in Following Jesus to Allah as well. as Jesus foretold of the revelation of Muhammad and what was to come.

Regards Tony
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Where did Jesus foretell about Mohammed? He sent the Comforter. Ok. But who is the Comforter linking the Bible New Testament mention of it to the Qur’an mention of it Full verses please. Analysed with citations. 🙂

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
Where did Jesus foretell about Mohammed? He sent the Comforter. Ok. But who is the Comforter linking the Bible New Testament mention of it to the Qur’an mention of it Full verses please. Analysed with citations. 🙂 MJ
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The Book of Revelation spends quite some time telling us about the Dispensation of Muhammad, the Kingdoms of His Times and the duration of the Revelation lasting 1260 years.

This has been posted on CAF before, thus we will let this thread stay with Allah

This link gives you all that was requested reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/

The passages you are after are in the index, there is a lot of Bonus material there as well 😉

To help this is the first talk reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-11.html 👍

Regards Tony
 
The following is the teaching of the Catholic Church:

Paragraph 841:

The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330
 
HelenRose said:
The following is the teaching of the Catholic Church:

Paragraph 841:

The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330
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Very nice post and May Allah grant us all the wisdom of 'Last day" salvation.

Regards Tony
 
.

Maybe our dear Catholic friends are unaware (I’ve studied your religion for a while now :D)

May I offer some advice from some historical figures who you may respect somewhat! 🙂
“…This good action was inspired in your heart by God, the Creator of all things, without whom we can neither do nor think any good thing. He who enlightens all men coming into this world (John 1.9) has enlightened your mind for this purpose. Almighty God, who wishes that all should be saved and none lost, approves nothing in so much as that after loving Him one should love his fellow man, and that one should not do to others, what one does not want done to oneself. This affection we and you owe to each other in a more peculiar way than to people of other races because we worship and confess the same God though in diverse forms and daily praise and adore Him as the creator and ruler of this world…For God knows that we love you purely for His honour and that we desire your salvation and glory, both in this life and in the life to come. And we pray in our hearts and with our lips that God may lead you to the abode of happiness, to the bosom of the holy patriarch Abraham, after long years of life here on earth…”
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  • Pope St. Gregory VII, Letter XXI to Al-Nasir the Muslim Ruler of Bijaya (Algeria), 1076
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“…Through the participation of one people with another there will be love and concord…one manner of loving and honouring God and we should love and help one another, and make it so that between us there be no difference …] which causes us to be enemies with one another and to be at war, killing one another and falling captive to one another. And this war, death and servitude prevent us from giving the praise, reverence and honour we owe to God every day of our life…[And so] all men might be brought together, that they might have understanding, and love one another, and agree in the service of God…Let Christians who are well schooled and proficient in the Arabic language go to Tunis to demonstrate the truth of their faith and let Muslims who are well schooled come to the kingdom of Sicily to discuss their faith with Christian scholars. By acting in this way, maybe, there can be peace between Christians and Muslims, when in the whole world the situation will take effect that neither Christians want to destroy Muslims nor Muslims want to destroy Christians…”
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  • Blessed Ramon Llull (1232 – ca. 1315), Catholic mystic, philosopher,
    logician and Franciscan missionary
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And another two centuries after that…
“…The whole concern of him who wrote that law [Muhammad], therefore, appears to have been primarily to avert the people from idolatry. And to this end he made these kinds of promises and wrote down everything. However, he did not condemn the Gospel, but rather praised it, and thereby intimated that the felicity which is promised in the Gospel would not be less than that corporeal felicity…You will find that not another faith but the one and the same faith is presupposed everywhere…Moses had described a path to God, but this path was neither taken up by everyone nor was it understood by everyone. Jesus illuminated and perfected this path; nevertheless, many even now remain unbelievers. Muhammad tried to make the same path easier, so that it might be accepted by all, even idolaters. These are the most famous of the said paths to God, although many others were presented by the wise and the prophets…”
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  • Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa (1453), De Pace Fidei (Catholic mystic & prelate)
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"…Do not think you are going to a country of heathens [or “among infidels”]. Muslims attain to salvation. The ways of God are infinite….”
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  • Pope Pius XI, 1934 (L’Ultima, Florence, Anno VIII)
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And finally:
vatican.va/holy_father/jo…blanca_en.html
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“…Christians and Muslims, we have many things in common, as believers and as human beings. We live in the same world, marked by many signs of hope, but also by multiple signs of anguish. For us, Abraham is a very model of faith in God, of submission to his will and of confidence in his goodness. We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection…The Catholic Church regards with respect and recognizes the equality of your religious progress, the richness of your spiritual tradition…On this path, you are assured, of the esteem and the collaboration of your Catholic brothers and sisters whom I represent among you this evening…”
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  • Pope Saint John Paul II: Address to young Muslims in Casablanca, 1985
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🙂

.
 
From a Christian viewpoint, the only people that could be “deficient” are Jews who do not see that Jesus was their prophesied Messiah. Anything else could only be a remanufactured version of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob(Israel). Islam teaches that Abraham was commanded to sacrifice his first born which would of been Ishmael, not Isaac.
 
Servant19 said:
.

Maybe our dear Catholic friends are unaware (I’ve studied your religion for a while now :D)

May I offer some advice from some historical figures who you may respect somewhat! 🙂

And another two centuries after that…

And finally:

🙂

.
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While Christians may accept that we have some beliefs in common with our Muslim brothers and sisters, perhaps you need to convince the Muslims at the same time you are reminding we Christians. If we have so much in common, perhaps they will join us.
 
Hasantas,

How could early Christians err? They were much closer to the event of Christ than us, 2000 years ago.

Why would Christianity then begin again far from the event in a very different culture and very different mode of interpretation, particularly as there were no apostles who were actual witnesses of Christ.

St. Peter said in his second epistle, who was the primary or head apostle chosen by Christ…said we are to not follow personal interpretation but listen only to them…not just one witness, but 12 apostles who were the chosen witnesses by His Majesty, Our Lord.

To say we Christians do not understand our Christianity with 2000 years of consistency of faith…a marvel itself of the Holy Spirit with the same authority and structure based on the apostles and bishops and then to think Muhammed, 600 years later who contradicted not only Scripture and the 10 commandments,

Then it is easy for us to make the same comment that Islam doesn’t understand itself right. But we Christians and Jews can make the same sweeping claim.

It is easy, so easy to just say Islam understands and interprets Christianity as it is for us to say the same, we understand Islam better than Muslims.
 
KathleenGee said:
Hasantas,

How could early Christians err? They were much closer to the event of Christ than us, 2000 years ago.

Why would Christianity then begin again far from the event in a very different culture and very different mode of interpretation, particularly as there were no apostles who were actual witnesses of Christ.

St. Peter said in his second epistle, who was the primary or head apostle chosen by Christ…said we are to not follow personal interpretation but listen only to them…not just one witness, but 12 apostles who were the chosen witnesses by His Majesty, Our Lord.

To say we Christians do not understand our Christianity with 2000 years of consistency of faith…a marvel itself of the Holy Spirit with the same authority and structure based on the apostles and bishops and then to think Muhammed, 600 years later who contradicted not only Scripture and the 10 commandments,

Then it is easy for us to make the same comment that Islam doesn’t understand itself right. But we Christians and Jews can make the same sweeping claim.

It is easy, so easy to just say Islam understands and interprets Christianity as it is for us to say the same, we understand Islam better than Muslims.
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The key to understanding all this is God doeth as He Willeth. This has been Gods way since the beginning of time and there is no change in Gods way.

It is how Belief is sorted from unbelief, The Strong from the Weak, the sincere from the unsincere etc

It is How free will becomes a blessing of the spirit.

Regards Tony
 
808Catholic said:
While Christians may accept that we have some beliefs in common with our Muslim brothers and sisters, perhaps you need to convince the Muslims at the same time you are reminding we Christians. If we have so much in common, perhaps they will join us.
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Perhaps it’s not about “joining us” like its a football team we swear allegiance to.

We are talking about the oneness of God, dear 808.

If it was about joining us or joining them, then Pope Saint John Paul XXIII would not have stated that if he was Muslim, he would have stayed a good Muslim, faithful to his religion.

This is about working with the Holy Spirit within the sacred traditions of ones Faith.

Lumen gentium talks about the Holy Spirit being very much active within Islam.

.
 
Tony,

I am waiting for Hasantas to answer. The focus is Muslim concept of God.
 
Servant19 said:
Perhaps it’s not about “joining us” like its a football team we swear allegiance to.

We are talking about the oneness of God, dear 808.

If it was about joining us or joining them, then Pope Saint John Paul XXIII would not have stated that if he was Muslim, he would have stayed a good Muslim, faithful to his religion.

This is about working with the Holy Spirit within the sacred traditions of ones Faith.

Lumen gentium talks about the Holy Spirit being very much active within Islam.

.
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Whichever analogy you wish to use, the practical results may be similar. What’s the end result: mutual acceptance/worship? As far as working with the Holy Spirit within the sacred traditions of one’s Faith, I believe any faithful believer already does that in his/her own way and to the current ability they have. The question Jews, Christians, and Muslims are faced with is how do we reconcile our separate faith when they appear different and, in some cases, contradictory? Finding commonality in our faiths still leaves us with differences. If not, then we must all abandon our faiths to start a new one or become pantheists or pagans.
 
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