Almost walked out of Mass

[MartyrForJesus]

Do you think an all-loving, all-powerful, perfect and supreme being like God can be insulted by man’s action?

Yes. Well, we can upset Him.

Remember that we are judged by our actions, not the actions of others. If the priest celebrates the Mass irreverently, then he would answer to God for that. But how do we react? Under no circumstance should we act contrary to the nature of God. We are only harmed by the irreverence in Mass if we ourselves act irreverently. That is, storming out and feeling “annoyed” and “irked”.

**No one said ‘storming out’. He could of said leaving quietly and reverently to find another Mass. However, I think I agree now that leaving is a little unneccesary unless it is so sacreligious that it invalidated the Mass. **

 

[MartyrForJesus]

It was not determined that the priest celebrated the Mass irrevently. The OP was merely bored with his homily (it happens sometimes that we are not attuned) and used too much amplitude in his microphone. That does not mean the mass was irreverent. Why do we always assume the member who complains is observing an abuse? (Not you, Constantine, but the posts are getting carried away here.)

Her major complaint was the music, which can be explained as her inadvertently attending a youth mass. Nevertheless, this is NOT inadmissible for a liturgy to use folk music - though it be ever so much against her taste.

There are a lot of assumptions being made, when none of us know the facts. Was the priest a visiting clergyman substituting for another and did not know how to regulate the sound buttons? The OP herself was a visitor in that church and does not know what took place behind the scenes. It is only her perceptions based on her personal preferences … and she is still not even a Catholic!

I took the assumption that the Mass we are talking about was comparable to the first 2 minutes of this:

youtube.com/watch?v=TR5XT2Vtn6w

I can only guess however. I am just referring to irreverent Masses in general.

 

[ivory]

It was not determined that the priest celebrated the Mass irrevently. The OP was merely bored with his homily (it happens sometimes that we are not attuned) and used too much amplitude in his microphone. That does not mean the mass was irreverent. Why do we always assume the member who complains is observing an abuse? (Not you, Constantine, but the posts are getting carried away here.)

I wasn’t declaring that the Mass in question was an example of liturgical abuse, although I can see how some might see me as saying so. My primary problems were with the demeanor of the priest, the demeanor of the people, and the obnoxious distraction that was the music. Although if I could isolate one of those three, I’d say the music.

[His] major complaint was the music, which can be explained as [his] inadvertently attending a youth mass. Nevertheless, this is NOT inadmissible for a liturgy to use folk music - though it be ever so much against [his] taste.

I understand that instruments like guitar, bass, and drums are not explicitly forbidden, but I personally find them to be inappropriate in a church setting. In fact, I am a huge fan of the Folk and Country genres, but not when they’re being used to make a genuinely awful sounding version of the Gloria. And even more boring versions of already dull Protestant songs. And I’m reasonably sure that the Mass I attended was not a youth one, given the age of the people attending.

There are a lot of assumptions being made, when none of us know the facts. Was the priest a visiting clergyman substituting for another and did not know how to regulate the sound buttons? The OP [himself] was a visitor in that church and does not know what took place behind the scenes. It is only [his] perceptions based on [his] personal preferences … and [he] is still not even a Catholic!

The priest is in fact the regular priest of this particular parish. As I mentioned previously, I did in fact attend Mass somewhat regularly there after my choice to become a Catholic. I even began the necessary courses to take care of my Baptism and subsequent Sacraments there. The sound problems I can probably attribute to the sound person trying to compensate for the priest’s dull, quiet voice. But as someone who has worked with stage mics, turning up the volume doesn’t always solve the problem. I agree that the grating sound issues did not affect the legitimacy of the Mass, and I never claimed that it was illegitimate in the first place. I am simply expressing my frustration (in a long-winded fashion) at what I saw was disrespect to the solemnity of the Mass.

And although I may not be officially Catholic just yet, I like to say that my heart and morals are already in line with the Church. I cannot receive Communion just yet, but that doesn’t mean I can’t pray with all my heart that I can someday soon. Perhaps my complaints are in fact trivial, but this particular Mass felt to me more like a Protestant “praise” service than the Catholic Church I fell in love with.

 

[ivory]

My experience was different. I had many years where I walked close to the Lord as a Protestant. Something was missing,but I didn’t know what until I came home.

I am thankful for Protestantism because I learned how to worship God, study scripture, be in the world and not of the world. I had my years of spiritual dryness too, but that was my fault.

I’m happy that not everybody’s experience with Protestantism was a bad one. I would discuss further, but that isn’t the subject of this thread.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Do you think an all-loving, all-powerful, perfect and supreme being like God can be insulted by man’s action?

Remember that we are judged by our actions, not the actions of others. If the priest celebrates the Mass irreverently, then he would answer to God for that.

But of course He can be! What planet do you live on?
We are asked to do penance for the sins comitted against God all the time. Why is that? Obviously He is greatly offended by things people do.

I agree that the priest will answer for the way he celebrtates mass but we are not obliged to accept questionable practices when we know *for a fact *that the mass should not be celebrated in certain ways. That is false humility.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

The Mass isn’t something we’re NOT supposed to suffer to? Tell that to the martyrs of Egypt and Syria in the last year who were blown up while attending Liturgy.

It is different when people suffer because they are persecuted. Attending bad liturgy and suffering because of that is a different issue. Martyrdom and degrading the mass are completely different things, no?

 

[NewsTheMan]

But of course He can be! What planet do you live on?
We are asked to do penance for the sins comitted against God all the time. Why is that? Obviously He is greatly offended by things people do.

I agree that the priest will answer for the way he celebrtates mass but we are not obliged to accept questionable practices when we know *for a fact *that the mass should not be celebrated in certain ways. That is false humility.

Agreed, well said.

Sins are offenses against God. Anything contrary to God’s law is an offense to God. Liturgy is doctrine - thus, abuse is an offense against God. Especially irreverence. The Eucharist is Christ, I mean come on. I don’t know about anyone here but in front of Christ I would not be forcing him to listen to banal country music while clapping my hands around. I certainly wouldn’t be doing that at the foot of the Cross where we are transported to during Mass.

It is different when people suffer because they are persecuted. Attending bad liturgy and suffering because of that is a different issue. Martyrdom and degrading the mass are completely different things, no?

Exactly. The liturgy should be our best offering to God that we have. It should be like Abel’s offering. The Mass is a foretaste of the Heavenly banquet. In Heaven there is no suffering, no abuse, no man-centeredness and certainly no suffering. The liturgy should not be a case of “Oh boy, what’s gonna happen this week, are they going to use some cake and try consecrate it? Or are we going to sing some Britney spears during the consecration?”. That is faaaaaaaaaaaaar from real, authentic expression of Catholicism and of worship to God.

 

[Sirach2]

And I’m reasonably sure that the Mass I attended was not a youth one, given the age of the people attending.

Age has little to do with this, for in my own parish, many seniors and people of all ages attend the youth Mass, simply because it is the vigil and they are not able to come back next morning. It is generally geared toward youth because that is the time frame when most of them come to Mass. Are you saying that this parish never uses the organ for accompaniment?

Thanks for the correction that you are a “he.” Usually it is women who are the more outspoken and complaining. OTOH, nineteen is very young and has not really stood the ups and downs of time, learning tolerance and patience with people, but that will come in later years as your virtue strengthens.

The priest is in fact the regular priest of this particular parish. As I mentioned previously, I did in fact attend Mass somewhat regularly there after my choice to become a Catholic.

Well, then, you had foreknowledge and freedom to choose your Mass, so why the upset? Unlike Protestantism, where the “elders” can hire and fire at will, choosing the most gifted speakers who can fire up a congregation, Catholic priests are under the Bishop’s assignment and have a sacred ministry far superior to that of being a motivational speaker. You will come to understand the liturgy as your studies progress. Music (including missing a note or two) is not the focal point, as it is in other denominations.

There are times when I have heard homilies that are mundane, but I have loads of opportunities outside the Mass to listen to many other teachings which bring enlightenment. Why rely exclusively or solely on the homily for your weekly spiritual food?

 

[CB_Catholic]

And how do you know that He hasn’t already withdrawn Himself so why stay and take part in what might be sacrilegious actions.

I would be very, very careful before making a statement like that, because it could lead to heretical thinking. There is no such teaching by the Church that this could possibly happen. In at the first place, not a soul on earth can begin to determine that; secondly there was no sacrilege committed, and thirdly, you know that a priest who is in a state of mortal sin still acts in persona Christi when consecrating the bread and wine and still confects a valid Eucharist–the Lord does not withdraw Himself from His people in such a case.

Also, what is a sacrilegious action is determined by the Church.

 

[albarker1]

wow I am astounded at your idea of dead praise and your attitude about the sanctuary you were in for the purpose you were going for. My version of dead is probably the opposite as I believe Psalms and Praise/Judah are sent up because god is worthy to be praised and inhabits the praises of his people, but that is a stylistic and faith based preference between us as different people I just was taken aback at the comments and the adjectives you used to describe them. My main concern is that you had a death in your life and intended to pray over that terrible situation and ended up distracted and irritated by the very place you went to seek god and find some peace from. You walked in worried or hurt and walked out adding mad and irritated to the list. I am only assuming because you make no mention of getting a real touch or feeling relief from god about the original issue, that maybe you missed the chance to get that out and let god provide for your heart in that area before being stirred into various other emotional stumbling blocks that can junk up our heart and create clogged arteries in the spiritual sense. that can make it harder and harder to let god flow through us, fix the blood pumping and the rythym in which a heart beats and cause a cardiac arrest…that may have not been the case or you may have bypassed the previous issue after having to deal with the music and manner the other members were conducting worship, but either way…I hope you would allow me to pray for you and know that in all love and concern I make mention of my take on the post…Heavenly Father I appreciate your body in Christ wherever they live, whoever they are, and whatever way they prefer to serve you. I ask that you pour out your grace and mercy on this beloved in her time of need and give her a peace and strength to handle the loss and the needs of those she loves who also suffered the same loss. Gently move on her to stir up your fruitful nature of longsuffering, patient, loving kindness as she enters your sanctuary and do not allow the enemy to come against her in your house by creating irritations and intolerant strongholds in her that may prevent her need from being met by you and distract her from her intent to seek you for all prayer and petitions. You are good Lord, a stronghold in the day of trouble and you know them that trust in you. I thank you for this beloved soul and I mourn with her over the loss of another and ask that you keep her and all those associated in the shelter and safety of your everlasting arm. In Jesus name I pray, amen.

 

[jasonjessica09]

I only walked out of Mass once but that was justiifed. I had the unfortuante experience to walk into the infamous Wizard of Oz Mass one year for Palm Sunday. I did not have traditionlist thoughts like I do now back then but even then I knew something was amiss and I was outta here after 20-30 minutes I think. Looking back if I knew what I knew now, I might have considered shouting out on the way out screaming that this is liturgical abuse.

 

[saint_peter]

They should leave mass the way it was quiet and silent.I really dont like gospel choir music in the mass,Wow that can annoy you.I have walked out of mass plenty of times,the way i see it is,if its not traditional mass and silent prayer,i would walk straight out.Why should i put up with gospel choir or that fancy music!! I think it is silly to say its a sin to walk out of mass!!

 

[manualman]

One of the dangers of learning the true depth, beauty and value of catholic liturgy is that it IS so frustrating that it is so rarely practiced these days. Because of that, it can become very easy to be the pharisee in church who prays “Lord, thank you so much that I am not like THAT sinner there…” We all know how that story ends.

I wish my parish would do the NO in English, with Latin Kyrie and Agnus Dei, I wish we had a communion rail and could receive kneeling on the tongue without breaking the hip of the old lady in line behind me, I wish the priest would come over on our side of the altar and stand with us facing the Lord together at the consecration. But nobody asks me and it’s frankly probably good for my humility to submit to what the local priest decides to do and offer it up. Because, in the end, these things pale in importance to the reality that I’ve just personally experienced the Sacrifice of Calvary. Who does the music or how bad the homily becomes vanishingly unimportant at that moment.

If you’re in a position to influence these things, please do so. If you aren’t, surrender them to the Lord. Because we’re rotten sinners too, eh?

 

[m134e5]

I definitely think that this is at least partially the case. My time with Protestantism was a very boring and spiritually dry one. I still have bitter feelings about it. I broke down in tears when I went to my first Mass because a combination of nervousness and what I believe was Christ welcoming me home. It was a defining moment for me.

I understand where you are coming from. Your experience reminds me a lot of my own experience. So much of my protestant experience was very unpleasant- more so than I am able to discuss. Catholicism truly was a refuge for me. It was a way to reject- with God on my side- what I had been raised to believe and practice. Of course, Catholicism means a lot more than that to me now- but I admit that once I left protestantism, I never once looked back.

This was a parish that I attended for a few months before I moved out of town. I highly doubt that it was a youth Mass, considering the people in attendance were mostly older than my 19 year old self. If it was, then the definition of ‘youth’ is stretched pretty darn far.

It has been my experience that youth Masses are frequently attended by middle-aged adults who won’t grow up. I suspect the Mass was intended, at least originally, to be a youth Mass.

 

[TomAquinas]

Ivory -
I believe most of these responders here failed to see what you see; I believe what you experienced was the honesty of your conscience recognizing a poor form of worship, and a great sadness at seeing God Himself being so ill served by His Church. The experience is the result of a great loss of the virtue of reverence among the many unfortunate Catholics present there and throughout the world, and is reflective of loss that spreads far more broadly into society today, which is that inability to distinguish between the spiritual and the purely emotional. I have in fact walked out of Mass several times, for the very things you have observed.

The Mass is at it’s fundamental core a re-enactment of Christ’s death on Calvary. It is a ‘celebration’ in the sense that it is a cause for deep spiritual joy and contemplation of eternal salvation; it is not a ‘celebration’ in the emotional sense of a 7-year old’s birthday party, or a Kumbayah campfire singalong of fellowship, or the 3 o’clock tea and crumpets. One does not express their joy over the prospect of eternal salvation the same way one celebrates the arrival of the weekend or a good friend. If they do, a complete re-evaluation of eternal salvation may be in order for them. (Or perhaps I expect too much of eternal salvation, but I’ll take that chance).

The key here is that, in light of the fact that eternal salvation is not a foregone conclusion, one must temper that joy with the knowledge that so long as we are on earth, the alternative is always a possibility, and we are at Mass to ask God to spare us from that alternative, to thank him for His Awesome Sacrifice, and to worship Him. One may talk about individual sensibilities and musical preferences, but nothing short of a small miracle is going to draw the gravity, beauty and richness of that reflection from guitars, tambourine music and folk songs.

While I have seen the Novus Ordo reverently said, it is far more the exception than the norm, and it’s overtures to ecumenism and Protestantism are not particular strengths.
It is my own belief that only in the Tridentine Mass is the richness of the Catholic tradition reverently served and preserved.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I apologize if this post sounds too confrontational. That is not my intention.

I attended Mass yesterday evening at the parish I used to attend before moving out of the area. A family member passed away yesterday afternoon so I wanted to offer some prayer for her. It was your standard “modern” Mass nowadays, with a guitar, bass, and (irritatingly) drums. The parish I go to now had these things but managed to be respectfully subdued with them.

The evening started off on a bad note with the band previewing the songs they’d play during Mass, which included the dreary Protestant song “Lord I Lift Your Name on High”. When Mass started, the priest’s mic was turned up far too loud and was grating to the ears. It made focusing very difficult. His diction was also very dull, sounding more like somebody reading off a grocery list than leading a Mass. At this point I was only mildly irked and tried my best to focus on God. But the point where I almost got out of my seat and left was during the Gloria. It was played with a horrendous country music rhythm with a male singer more concerned with sounding like Garth Brooks than praising God. And if that wasn’t bad enough, the performance had a break section that encouraged everyone to start clapping in rhythm while they were singing along.

I was completely dumbfounded, and probably more so angry. This kind of spiritually dead “praise” music was one of the many reasons why I left non-denominational Protestantism for the Catholic Church. This kind of behavior struck me as embarrassing and completely insulting to the solemnity of the Mass. Only through the sheer force of will did I stay. The Gospel was enlightening as always and gave me some comfort, but the priest’s homily was completely lifeless. It was a simple “The Bible says X, and the Bible also says Y”. No attempt to show what it meant to us in our modern lives, just quotations. As I cannot receive Communion just yet, I spend the entire time in prayer. The flashy twelve string guitar being played during Communion was a major distraction, especially when the player missed notes.

I walked out of the building as soon as the priest declared Mass was over. I couldn’t be bothered to sit through a second rendition of “Lord I Lift Your Name on High”.

If I had left the Mass, would I have been committing a sin? Although definitely not an abuse on the scale of “Clown Masses” and “Balloon Masses”, this was something that detracted from the seriousness of the Mass and left me spiritually cold. And not only was it infuriating, it was boring. This was the first time I had ever been bored by a Mass. The last time I felt this bored at church was when I was watching a ‘non-denominational’ minister point to Bible quotes on a giant TV screen.

I made the choice to convert to Catholicism because of the rich history and tradition it had. The absolute majesty and beauty of the faith that can be traced directly not to a mortal man, but to Jesus Christ Himself. As I sat through this anger-inducing Mass, I asked myself this question: If the Catholic Church has such a wonderful history and tradition, why don’t people use it? Why are many so quick to abandon it? It genuinely saddens me as a convert.

What do you guys have to say about this?

When I started reading your post I was thinking about how to tell you that even with all that going on the most important thing was that you were in the House of the Lord and were able to receive the Blessed Eucharist and how could anything be more important than that?

I kept reading and then I started getting a bit irritated. After all, if this is the House of the Lord shouldn’t we be showing Him some respect? I can identify with your feelings. Once at Mass at the church I attend (the only one and it has one Mass on Sunday) it sounded like the hymns were being sung like polkas. I was shocked and then extremely embarrassed. It was absolutely horrendous and like you, I felt like leaving.

I believe it is a grave act (a mortal sin if all three conditions are met) to leave Mass before Communion starts but I’m usually wrong about these things. It wouldn’t have been a mortal sin in your case because you would not have been leaving with full consent. You were being pressured by what was going on. At least I think this is the way it goes.

Can you attend another Catholic Church? I don’t have that choice but fortunately the “Polka Mass” only happened once. If it ever happens again I am going to confront the priest. It seems strange that whenever I hear the “Lamb of God” sung partially in Latin and partially in English how I cry for joy and how irritated I was to hear that polka music. It shouldn’t be that way but we are human beings and fallible weak and I guess sometimes it’s very hard to put all that aside and concentrate on the glory and beauty of the Mass that seems to be hidden somewhere underneath gaudiness and disrespect. I’m sure some people can do it; I’m not one of them.

I would suggest that you give them another try and if they do all that stuff again to find another Catholic Church or perhaps another style of Mass (Extraordinary Form?). The important thing is to receive the Eucharist and celebrate with other Catholics. I’m disabled and sick and I can’t make it to Mass very often and in a way I wish I had your problem. But I certainly also understand your irritation.

There is one thing that troubles me. I think we should be Catholic, not because of the Church’s rich history and tradition, but because she is the Church founded by God, is the Body of Christ, and has the fullness of truth. I wonder about your reasons for becoming Catholic and I am concerned. I think perhaps you should think about your reasons for becoming a member of the Church.

 

[TrueLight]

While I have seen the Novus Ordo reverently said, it is far more the exception than the norm, and it’s overtures to ecumenism and Protestantism are not particular strengths.
It is my own belief that only in the Tridentine Mass is the richness of the Catholic tradition reverently served and preserved.

You’re going to learn quickly enough that there is very little tolerance for such a viewpoint on this forum.

But welcome to CAF!

 

[Morgan_Hiver]

You’re going to learn quickly enough that there is very little tolerance for such a viewpoint on this forum.

It’s pretty ironic, considering the name of this subforum. It’s like going to France and the national language has been changed to American redneck. Must I really learn the lingo to avoid the stoning?

 

[TrueLight]

It’s pretty ironic, considering the name of this subforum. It’s like going to France and the national language has been changed to American redneck. Must I really learn the lingo to avoid the stoning?

Yes.

 

[TomAquinas]

To follow Christ, one must sometimes walk the path of St. Stephen.