So now we argue about the argument?
What is wrong with that? Your rolling eyes make it seem as if arguing about that is wrong. Again, if what matters is only the validity of the sacrament, then we have come a far way from authentic Catholicism and my reductio argument makes it clear why.
It is still a broad leap into cynicism which devalues the opinions of some posters who pleaded for charity and tolerance in respect of these minor complaints that border on personal preference. You would have us swallow the camel, when the gnat is the only problem.
Huh? I am making general observations and a general discussion. So you admit that your post was a strawman and a misrepresentation of my posts? Can you not see the bigger picture here?
The bigger picture is that suffering minor abuses is not ideal or acceptable. Yes, in the short run while at Mass sometimes it is better to offer it up. But that cannot continue. Posters who say “well it is okay because it was valid” are doing people and the Church a disservice. Precisely because it is a valid Mass- that is what makes abuses (minor or major) not acceptable. Going on about validity is not the issue - the reductio argument shows that. The issue is what makes an authentic, proper Catholic Mass. There are objective standards and we must adhere to them. People act as if wanting a properly celebrated liturgy is an offense, or just one preferences amongst others. God deserves the best. Wanting that is not one preferences among others nor is it offensive.
Looking back, you are not the only one who veered off topic. We find posts that talk about robing in gorilla costumes and making the same giant leap to rationalizations that are not pertinent whatsoever. Morgan’s very
first post as a new member at CAF was to make sweeping complaints about the NO. Not much has changed.
Again, you must understand the context and point of those posts. Here it is:
Some say it is okay to play folk music, to dance around, to not follow the rubrics or the texts, to have a “light-hearted”, “youth oriented” liturgy. They say that it matters not what the Priest wears, or what the people wear, and that in some massively general sense “it is for God” so that makes it all okay. That kind of thing is directly opposed to Catholicism - and for a good, academic explanation of the extrinsic merits of the Mass read the article I posted. If one understands the Mass - that is, if one knows and confirms it to be a re-presentation of Christ on the Cross - then we can safely say that there are certain things which are appropriate and certain things which are not appropriate.
The objection then comes that what is appropriate is only a matter of opinion. So the response comes in two forms: firstly, Rome has spoken about what is and what is not appropriate. In her official documents and in sacred Tradition where through the ages we have never seen the likes of what we see today in many Masses. Secondly (and this is where the gorilla stuff comes in) if that were true just apply the principle in another context, namely, a funeral. Is it only a matter of personal opinion that a funeral is solemn and respectful? Or at funerals do we dress in whatever manner pleases us and play folk music and dance around? If not, why not? We see that it is a solemn moment. So how much more in the presence of God Almighty should we be reserved in such a manner? How much more when we recognize that the Mass is not about us or for us - it is about God and for God.
In fact, I find it rather scandalous to say “well it is okay as long as the Eucharist was valid”. I think that is a cop-out answer that betrays some kind of luke-warmness towards the faith.
Imagine it was your Birthday and I had a gift for you. It was a beautiful watch. In order to have this gift, I threw you a party. A bad party. One where you were invited but we put you in the corner, we played all the music you don’t like and we displayed the foods you hated. Right at the end I gave you the gift and dared to say “hey, this was all for you what is with that long face!” If you come out and said that the party was horrid would it be any excuse for me to say “Well, at least the present was nice!”. You would feel offended and sad.
An imperfect analogy - and no I am not comparing the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass to a party - but in my mind that illustrates the kind of point I am making here.
