Am I Catholic? Or am I not?

[QwertyGirl]

Faith isn’t blind acceptance.

 

[LittleFlower378]

i agree. So you have not come to see the truth of the Catholic faith and all Her beliefs?

 

[stpurl]

I think maybe part of the ‘disconnect’ is that you do not believe in the supernatural.

If you limit your understanding only to the ‘natural’, i.e. what can be explained in ‘scientific’ ways, can be absolutely proven or which, if theorized, rely only on empiric data or again, ‘natural’ only, then you really cannot fully understand or deal with Catholicism or religion in general, that is, religion which itself deals with a supernatural being.

If God exists, He is Supernatural, not natural.
If there is a Supernatural being, then He acts in Supernatural ways even if the ‘end’ of them is ‘natural’.

For example, if God created the universe, the creation itself was Supernatural, but the results --stars, planets, living things–are natural things which ‘resulted’ from the original supernatural event.

If the Christian God exists and created the universe, then He either communicated with us through Scripture, or He didn’t.

If He did, then we have the understanding that we are not only ‘natural’ beings (creations) but that in His words He also imbued us with a ‘supernatural’ part of that natural being --called the soul.

Now, if you don’t believe in any or all of this, you still believe the universe has a cause (it must). You may believe the cause is natural, but if so, the original ‘cause’ still has to be ‘unnatural’ (something does not arise from ‘nothing’) or ‘supernatural’.

But what it does come down to, in the end, is that there is an absolute truth. (think about it. Why do people, rational people, constantly argue about ‘truth’? If truth is just 'what an individual chooses to accept as such", how could people exist? How could they maintain a civilization, which involves human cooperation and acceptance of unity in diversity, if you couldn’t ‘trust’ any other given individual around you to be truthful?)

Why do people argue about climate change? If there is no such thing as an absolute truth (the climate IS changing), then those who state, "no it isn’t’ are simply expressing THEIR idea of TRUTH and therefore no one should try to convince them otherwise, and everybody should say, OK, I believe climate is changing, and you don’t, so both statements are equally truthful and acceptable.

You know that doesn’t happen.

So climate change can’t be a relative truth --that is, true for you but not for me, or vice versa. It has to be absolute --something that is really truly happening whether or not a person believes it is.

And if that can be said with regard to an observable ‘scientific’ statement (natural)
it can be said with regard to the supernatural as well.
Once we believe in absolutes we come to “God exists or He does not”. And once we accept that there is no proof He does not (how can there be proof of non-existence of a Supernatural being, because the only proof offered would have to be supernatural, etc), then the same yardsticks apply to supernatural concepts and teachings. . .there are absolutes, and a person is either closer to the absolute (true) or farther away (false).

 

[QwertyGirl]

Oh no. I am a huge believer in the supernatural. I have a lot of what many would consider new age beliefs.

I believe in a God (although not really a Christian or Catholic God). I believe in souls and spirituality.

 

[PetraG]

Faith isn’t blind acceptance.

According to your heart, what is faith?
To me, it is a whole-person matter: that is, faith involves both intellect, heart and a leap of will, because there is nothing that is certain enough to satisfy fear. I believe it involves grace, too, though. In other words, I believe that I have faith because of strength to persevere that is supplied by the Holy Spirit.
I don’t believe that gift is given to everyone. I don’t know why, but in my experience many things I do not understand at the time have reasons I did not have access to at the time. I know it doesn’t depend on whether the person is seeking “well enough” or is open enough to changing to become a good person or anything like that. Seeking matters, being open matters, but it isn’t a “meritocracy” kind of thing.
Faith is also a relationship that grows and one that can be subjected to external blows. This is true whether you have a trusting relationship with another person or whether it is a relationship with God. It is even true of the kind of faith we have in ourselves.

 

[QwertyGirl]

see

Exactly. In fact, to take it a little further, I believe much of what the Catholic Church teaches to actually be untrue (although often well-intentioned).

 

[QwertyGirl]

In my Catholic upbringing, I was always taught faith is a gift. If one believes in God (as I do), I think it is an appropriate way to look at it. Either you have it or you don’t.

 

[stpurl]

Just as an aside, have you ever read (really read) C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity? The people I know who have really done so may not have moved to Christianity (though just about everybody bar one or two has), but they have become much more open to it and much more discerning.

 

[LittleFlower378]

ok, well its good your here, there are many knowledgeable people here that give clear understanding about the Catholic faith. A lot of people dont want to believe because they think it is too hard. It may be hard, but I can guarantee you the life opposed to the Catholic Church is alot harder if you consider ramifications of sin and error.

 

[QwertyGirl]

I have had 16 years of Catholic education. I am pretty well versed in what the Church teaches, and what it doesn’t. It isn’t that I don’t understand what it teaches.

I am not really interested in “coming to Christianity”. I am more interested in understanding the psychology of people who do.

I find it fascinating.

 

[PetraG]

In my Catholic upbringing, I was always taught faith is a gift. If one believes in God (as I do), I think it is an appropriate way to look at it. Either you have it or you don’t.

It is, but it is more than that. As Thomas Merton put it, “The spiritual life is first of all a life . It is not merely something to be known and studied, it is to be lived." Physical life is also a gift, but you do have to nourish it and live it mindfully and so on. You have to decide to get up and nourish yourself, stimulate your mind, get rest and so on. The life of faith is not just a matter of “do I believe such-and-so ti be true” any more than physical life is about merely discerning what is reality and what is bias or fantasy.

I am not really interested in “coming to Christianity”. I am more interested in understanding the psychology of people who do.

I find it fascinating.

Well, then, you’ve learned by now that being exposed to encouragement to join the life is freight that has to be paid. Researchers do not go unnoticed, and it is well known how many of them eventually do come to faith and are thankful for it.

If you haven’t read them already, you might be very interested in three famous faith autobiographies:
Surprised by Joy, by C.S. Lewis–and in your spot, I’d start with that one, because he very much describes how his intellectual relationship to the faith unfolded–Seven Storey Mountain (Thomas Merton) and Story of a Soul (St. Thérèse of Lisieux; this is more of a story of a cradle Catholic who came around at a relatively early age to the desire to become a saint rather than someone who sought faith, but her description of her interior life is very open and unassuming).

 

[stpurl]

Why do you want to understand the psychology of believers, then?
That’s puzzling. You aren’t interested in the belief, in fact you reject most of it as wrong, but you find the psychological aspect interesting? Exactly in what way? Is it admirable that people can maintain religious beliefs without ‘empiric evidence?’ Can you elaborate?

I likewise have had 16 (plus if one considers lots of Virtus and enrichment courses) years of Catholic education, yet our understanding seems to be poles apart.

Now I don’t want to understand the psychology of ‘nonbelievers’ per se as though they were some research group. I don’t find the psychology of nonbelievers fascinating.

I really suggest you read Lewis (I know you know this, he’s Anglican, not Roman Catholic, but an excellent example of why Catholics and Protestants are both Christian in understanding).

 

[PetraG]

Why do you want to understand the psychology of believers, then?
That’s puzzling…

I don’t think it is puzzling at all. If you were exposed to the same education and formation as a group of other people and responded to it in a totally different way, why wouldn’t you want to know why?

 

[Gorgias]

What you call “answers”, I see as “ideas”. One must have faith to believe those ideas are “answers”.

OK… so, it comes down to a question of whether you believe what the Church teaches…?

Maybe what you’re experiencing isn’t a discomfort with your approach, but rather, an attempt to convince you of the truth of the Church’s teachings?

Faith isn’t blind acceptance.

No, and no one (AFAIK) is saying that it is. The best definition of ‘faith’ that I’ve heard is “trust” – in our context, trust in God and His self-revelation, and in Jesus and in the Church He founded to provide us with His grace.

In fact, to take it a little further, I believe much of what the Catholic Church teaches to actually be untrue (although often well-intentioned).

Hmm… so, how do you come to terms with what seems to be the mutually-exclusive propositions that “Jesus founded the Church and protected it from error” and “the Church teaches untruth”? Just curious…

I have had 16 years of Catholic education. I am pretty well versed in what the Church teaches, and what it doesn’t. It isn’t that I don’t understand what it teaches.

I’m not going to dispute whether you know what the Church teaches or not, but please let me offer an observation: in my experience, the folks who say “I learned what the Church teaches in Catholic grade school / high school / college” are generally (to a greater or lesser extent) often mistaken about what the Church actually teaches. Like I said… just an observation.

 

[Pattylt]

I am more interested in understanding the psychology of people who do.

I find it fascinating.

This describes me, too! I want to know why some truly believe with certainty, some just accept the faith as true without investigating and some just can not believe even though they have tried. I’d also include those that not only don’t believe but are certain of their unbelief.

All of them can access the same texts and same information yet come to completely different answers.

 

[QwertyGirl]

Why do you want to understand the psychology of believers, then?

I have a lot of Catholic family and friends whom I love dearly. It helps me understand them.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

If you were exposed to the same education and formation as a group of other people and responded to it in a totally different way, why wouldn’t you want to know why?

Only for practical purposes otherwise I couldn’t care less.

 

[stpurl]

I should have actually guessed that. The heat must be frying my brain (no A/C).

 

[po18guy]

Thank you thank you thank you! I come from the far far right many decades ago. My faith is pulling me, not to political center, but to a purer Catholicism - which has both liberalism (heart) and conservatism (mind) in it. We function poorly if we lack one or the other.

After being hyper-political for so long, I just gave up. Angry all the time. Actually, I gave up essentially all media. Newspaper, TV, radio, political weekly and monthlies. you name it. Now, it is Catholic radio and YouTube vids. I prefer to be built up and not torn down by the world.

 

[robertmidwest]

Can one be considered Catholic without being able to receive communion? Can you call yourself a Catholic without going to Mass every week?

Yes.
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