Amazon Synod idols cast in River Tiber today

  • Thread starter Thread starter IanM
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
phil19034 said:
40.png
gracepoole:
40.png
Aquinas11:
If he did do it - he’d be accused of damaging image of traditionalists among Synod critics

If he calls for it to be done and didn’t do it - he’d be accused of hypocrisy

If he doesn’t call for it to be done at all, he’s ignoring Scripture.

What exactly should he have done?
Click to expand...
I’ll ask again: if he wanted it done and was in Rome himself, why didn’t he do it?
Click to expand...
My guess… he wanted an authorized member of the clergy to do it. That would have been A LOT better.
Click to expand...
Great response – now I wish that is what had happened. I agree. It would have been A LOT better.
 
on_the_hill said:
CAn someone explain what actually happened? I saw a 4 minute video. It looks like an individual took some wooden statutes (purportedly idols) from the Amazon(?) out of a church and threw them in a body of water.
  1. Where was this?
  2. Is that actually the Tiber?
  3. Is this corroborated? In other words, there was one person in an empty church. How do I know that the idols weren’t planted there for the purposes of the video?
Overall–first of all, I wholeheartedly disagree with the “kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out” attitude that’s pervading the thread. Second of all, idols have no place in a Catholic church unless there’s some really good explanation as to why they’re there.
Click to expand...
Yeah this was the real thing. I had only seen the first pictures when they were published last week, but the church and the layout are exactly the same. (I’m not sure if the idols were planted. But they looked exactly like the one used in the Vatican gardens.)

In any case, what is in order is an analyses of the underlying reason, including the position everyone is taking. This could have been done for political reasons, not religious reasons.
 
Alphard said:
How to flag posts? I have tried and it only let me send a message to the user. By the way, do we have to tolerate leftist lunatic rethoric here too? The 24/24 bombardment on all channels in our lives is not enough?
Click to expand...
You just joined so your ability to flag posts may not yet be the same as other members.
 
You hit the flag icon and scroll down the options. ‘Inappropriate’ is what you’re looking for.
 
Rubee said:
40.png
Emeraldlady:
The denigration of tribal cultures is well established and historical travesty.
Click to expand...
I want to know how you decided our motives are Euro-American Supremacy. You don’t even know who you’re talking to. Some nerve you got. Smh.
Click to expand...
Time will reveal the truth about what mentality is behind stealing a cultural display of Amazon tribal culture and making a point of throwing it in the Roman Tiber! If that is not the absolute definition of ‘some nerve’, I don’t know what is!
 
yes, there’s two broad schools of thought – quiet disappearance or this disposal. I would have preferred burning, because these will probably be retrieved, if they have not been so, already. But, the removal is the big deal and then the watery disposal speaks volumes for tens of millions of faithful Catholics who have been insulted by their presence on holy ground.
 
Emeraldlady said:
Time will reveal the truth about what mentality is behind stealing a cultural display of Amazon tribal culture and making a point of throwing it in the Roman Tiber! If that is not the absolute definition of ‘some nerve’, I don’t know what is!
Click to expand...
Perhaps it’ll also reveal your magical heart-reading abilities: they’ve christened me Euro-American. Ridiculous. I have no idea why your first instinct is to come in and tell strangers their motives but you’re incredibly disrespectful. Please refrain from talking to me, ever.
 
Rubee said:
40.png
Emeraldlady:
Time will reveal the truth about what mentality is behind stealing a cultural display of Amazon tribal culture and making a point of throwing it in the Roman Tiber! If that is not the absolute definition of ‘some nerve’, I don’t know what is!
Click to expand...
Perhaps it’ll also reveal your magical heart-reading abilities: they’ve christened me Euro-American. Ridiculous. I have no idea why your first instinct is to come in and tell strangers their motives but you’re incredibly disrespectful. Please refrain from talking to me, ever.
Click to expand...
I did not call you Euro American. I am addressing the mentality behind the characters that stole the display and made a point of throwing it into the Roman Tiber! That is not a nothing attitude. It comes from somewhere and time will reveal it.
 
That is beside the point. Whether the bishops take exception to it is irrelevant to the truth. The bishops covered up abuse for decades. Why didn’t they fix the problems? Why did they just pass bad priests around? Why didn’t they take issue with it?
 
Emeraldlady said:
40.png
Babaganoush:
The definition of ‘some nerve’ is putting a pagan idol up in a Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
As yet no one has given an explanation as to why the clergy from Africa and 9 Amazon region countries, did not take issue with the Amazon display?
Click to expand...
My understanding is that there are religious from the Amazon who have spoken out against the statues.
 
Babaganoush said:
That is beside the point. Whether the bishops take exception to it is irrelevant to the truth. The bishops covered up abuse for decades. Why didn’t they fix the problems? Why did they just pass bad priests around? Why didn’t they take issue with it?
Click to expand...
Quite an accusation.
 
Emeraldlady said:
If the issue is as serious as the Catholic laity here is making out, surely Cdl Sarah would speak up? This is nothing but ignorant white Euro/American supremacy thinking that they know better than the whole clergy of the Church.
Click to expand...
This is what you said. Perhaps you missed it but I’m part of this ‘Catholic laity’.
 
What accusation are you talking about? That bishops covered up abuse? Were you born yesterday, because It is established fact that they have been covering up abuse. It has been in the news since 2001. It is documented.
 
Rubee said:
40.png
Emeraldlady:
If the issue is as serious as the Catholic laity here is making out, surely Cdl Sarah would speak up? This is nothing but ignorant white Euro/American supremacy thinking that they know better than the whole clergy of the Church.
Click to expand...
This is what you said. Perhaps you missed it but I’m part of this ‘Catholic laity’.
Click to expand...
Take my word for it, I was not addressing you personally. I was addressing the thinking/mentality/attitude that has been called out down the ages for it’s actions against tribal cultures.
 
There are valid arguments to be made that the statue in question is not a pagan idol. Pedro Gabriel, a Catholic layman from Portugal, published an article on October 10th with supporting evidence that the statue is, indeed, Our Lady of the Amazon, a devotion approved by the Vatican in 2011. The author provides video of the woman, who participated in the ceremony at the Vatican, before Pope Francis presenting the statue and referring to it as Nuestra Señora de la Amazonia, con el huevo de la Iglesia, which can be translated from the Portuguese to “Our Lady of the Amazon, with the egg of the Church.” (Because of the audio quality of the video, there’s uncertainty whether con el huevo–“with the egg”–was said or something else.)

Some might counter by pointing to a Vatican statement declaring the statue does not represent the Virgin Mary; but, if you read this news article published by the Catholic News Agency, you can see that Fr. Giacomo Costa, a “communications official for the Amazon synod” admits that his interpretation of what the statue represents is “his personal opinion, and he was not speaking as the head of Vatican communications or synod communications.” In fact, Melissa Butz interviewed the event’s organizer, Father Roberto Carrasco Rojas, “a missionary priest for indigenous peoples in Peru”, who says:
They carved in wood an image of a Blessed Mother, who is pregnant. She is the Virgin, and we have called her Our Lady of the Amazon. She represents the Amazon, because what is the Amazon? The Amazon is a woman, she is female, she has a female face. Why? Because the earth is a mother, the earth gives life. So that is the Amazon.
Click to expand...
It would seem to me many of the sources declaring the statue a pagan idol don’t have knowledge or understanding of what they speak, while those responsible for the ceremony and the statue have said it is a symbol to the native people of the Amazon for the Virgin Mary. How can any of us, who do not reside in the Amazon region, claim to have any competency in judging for ourselves what a given symbol means for those who live there? Can we not, in charity, take these people for their word?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top