Amazon Synod idols cast in River Tiber today

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Chapels are not the church proper and the Blessed Sacrament in such events is not kept in the Church itself.

Chapels can be used for showing movies, talks and other events depending on the event,
 
I completely understand your view and would love if I could see it the same way. God’s blessings
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Chapels are not the church proper and the Blessed Sacrament in such events is not kept in the Church itself.

Chapels can be used for showing movies, talks and other events depending on the event,
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Mostly daily mass 🙃
 
Here is something to think about: if the “church hierarchs” who organized and/or support the synod, (whoever they might be) actually followed our discussion here, do you think they would be -

a. greatly disturbed by this
b. rolling on the floor laughing
c. be indifferent
d. congratulate themselves on a job well done

What do you say?
 
So the “statuettes” represented life, fertility and Mother Earth, per the article. They do not belong in the sanctuary.
 

Too bad it won’t be as simple as C. Indifferent
 
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Rubee said:
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adgloriam:
Ohh but it is a moral/legal debate, Saint Paul says we should be humble and subject to secular authorities.
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. . . Do you think German Catholics who hid Jews in their basements during the Nazi regime were being bad Catholics? What about when the church TOLD LIES, in the form of fake baptism certificates to save the lives of Jews being smuggled out of europe? Did the ends justify the means then?
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Nazis were not legitimate authority.

Italian judiciary and Church are legitimate authority.
 
What do you mean “legitimate authority”? How do you determine that? The Roman govts that persecuted the early church were deemed legitimate by Jesus, the apostles, and the church. The question is not whether the govt is legitimate but whether the rule in question is morally violable. For example, the order to worship a statue of caesar was one Christians felt they could and should violate.
 
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Rubee said:
For example, the order to worship a statue of caesar was one Christians felt they could and should violate.
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Both decisions would have been legitimate. Church historians are in agreement (the Catholics were free to choose martyrdom or to participate under coercion.).
Rubee said:
The Roman govts that persecuted the early church were deemed legitimate by Jesus, the apostles, and the church.
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Depending on the context of the times, they were considered temporally legitimate and morally illegitimate. The same way Babylon became God’s tool and Nabucodonosor God’s servant. The Church’s authority or modern democratic institutions are legitimate, both mutually recognize each others legitimacy, (in so far as there are proper ways to challenge them).
Rubee said:
What do you mean “legitimate authority”? How do you determine that?
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I’ll leave you to find the answer for that.

(I feel like I’m rebating rethorics, whilst teaching catechesis…Thank you God for such an opportunity.)
 
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adgloriam said:
Depending on the context of the times, they were considered temporally legitimate and morally illegitimate.
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Citation, please. When did Christians ever consider that Roman authorities were an illegitmate govt because they were persecuting Christians?
adgloriam said:
I’ll leave you to find the answer for that.

(I feel like I’m rebating rethorics, whilst teaching catechesis…Thank you God for such an opportunity.)
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So you’ll leave me to justify your own points? Wow.

The legitimacy of the authorities is not in question: it’s whether the law in question can/should be violated.
 
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Although . . . we don’t respond so they agree, but so that the points made don’t go unanswered. 😉 Also, you never know: some seeds take years to sprout. 😁
 
Seems like a genuine response of the sensus fidelium. The shocking thing is why those were there in the first place. We’re allowing tolerance to corrupt the truth.

I can’t completely condone this because I don’t see how this can be a justified use of authority. The church has a divine order. This looks like an usurpation. The question of course is if the ordinary authority is negligent, what is a legitimate response? And who judges the negligence?
 
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CorydonMundi said:
Pagan imagery should be destroyed.
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Hmm. Are there parameters to this, or is there a free for all right to destroy pagan objects? What constitutes a pagan object, by the way? Unfortunately ignorance can cause the destruction of things which are of archeological and historical value.

So how about if this thread defines what a pagan object is, properly speaking, to distinguish it from things which are merely associated with paganism, but not pagan itself (Christmas tree?).

Does the right to destroy apply only to pagan imagery that has been gifted and is now in one’s possession, or does it apply to imagery in the possession of others as well? Can I invade someone’s home to steal and destroy their pagan images?

I ask because I am traveling in South America currently and have been for the past couple of months (Peru and Bolivia) . The theme of “right to destroy paganism” is present in Spanish-Inca history, for example. There are chuches I visited that were built in top of destroyed Inca sites. In fact, some of them still have the adobe base of these Inca sites. One was built on top of a former Inca palace, another on top of what was an Inca shrine.

I also started reading a book about Spanish Aztec history called When Montezuma Met Cortés, and there’s a section I was reading today quoting from Spanish sources (including from letter by Cortés to the Spanish king) regarding their astonishment and marvel at the imperial city of Tenochitlitan, due to its grandeur and riches…which was destroyed during the Spanish Aztec War.

What’s notable about the quotes is how they speak favorably of the riches and the archtectural accomplishments of the city while simultaneously condemning the idolatry of the land, which when fused together created the rational of “conquest” because the argument was that the paganism of the people was justifucation enough to take over. Evangelization was thrown in the mix but it sounded more like a pretext. I remember one audio I listened to before summed the conquistadors’ motives like this: God, Gold, and Glory.

My point is this: While we no longer live in the age of conquest, we do still live in an age of paganism ( a very broad term) coexisting in the same world as Christianity. What should the Christian response be and in what ways should it differ from or be the same as in the past?
 
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Are you as careful with how you assign the term “worship” when speaking about particular pagans as you would want Protestants to be when speaking about how Catholics “worship” Mary?

Paganism is a broad term and there are many pagans. I don’t asume they all believe or practice identically, do you? For all you know, the way “Life” and “Fertility” are honored or conceptualized may be different or have importante nuances among peoples.

Wasn’t it the medieval scholastics who said: never deny, seldom affirm, always distinguish…
 
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Bibles are available everywhere. Get one and read it!

Need energy? pray to the Lord of heaven for strength to understand His holy word.
 
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