America Freedom to Fascism Documentary on IRS and income tax

[kesa82]

Exactly. I have known just about everything shown in the video and far more since the early 90’s but I still pay taxes and do not suggest that anyone else stop doing so. The same people who are pocketing our money run the courts you would be dragged in to. That is why he refers to it as Fascism.

In the 1920’s , I can’t remember the year, the KKK marched 20,000 strong through Washington. A mere ten years later they were broken. What happened, a moral epiphany ? No, the government hauled them into court again and again. Never mind that every case was trumped up, never mind that the Klan beat them in court 20 times in a row. After that 20th case they were bankrupt.

Now, of course nobody is shedding any tears for the KKK.
But that isn’t the frightening point.
Ever wondered why, in a nation of over 200 million people, there are only two viable political parties?
That doesn’t strike you as suspicious? The point is, anyone who actually does try to change things will be ruined / bankrupted by an avalanche of mere red tape.
Who can afford to go to court even to save their own life, much less to uphold an altruistic principle?
All of this you see? It’s all lies, all illusions.
This is not a free country, or even a democratic country.
It is fascism , in form and process, though not in name.

 

[kesa82]

I just wathched the full video. It was very powerful and clearly explained what I try to tell my family, friends and co workers. Democrat / Republican is a non-issue. It’s the bigger picture of the eroding middle class and enslavment of the average person.

I recommend the video highly.

I have not seen the video. But that is not necessary. The income tax is not a tax issue, it is a privacy issue. You bet that Republican / Democrat is a non-issue . Both parties except the socialist and totalitarian premise that the individual is answerable to the state for every penny he earns. He is not so answerable. That is none of the states buisiness. The state , in making you fill out that form, is commiting the same CRIME as a window peeper. The intrusive nature of the income tax is , because of its intrusiveness, profoundly immoral. And yes, I told a woman in my church who worked for the IRS to her face that she was a criminal. The state does not have the right to do whatever for expediencies sake. " Need" does not override morality. How do you think we got to the point where abortion was sanctioned by law? Is Abortion an anomaly? An abberation? No, it was preceeded by a great many crimes committed by the state itself.

 

[Michael_C]

Kesa82

You should see the film. It goes deeper than the tax issue. It explains who realy runs the country, how and where we’re headed.

 

[epower]

i saw the film. It states that the 16th Ammendment was not ratified by a single state. It states that the Courts uphold the IRS authority to collect the income tax, even though it is totally illegal for them to do so. I had trouble with the New York State authorities. They put a lien on my wife’s property because I had nof filed income taxes for income that I did not make. They socked me for huge penalties, even though my income was $0. How unfair is that. Most people file their returns because they know that the IRS will come after them with a vengeance. It is fascism. The movie also explains that our income tax is used to pay interest on the federal debt because bankers (The Federal Reserve) prints the money, and charges us interest on it. Why doesn’t the government print its own money? It sounds like a scheme to make a select few very rich. Here are some more films about how the government abuses its citizens to favor corporations: Prescription for Disaster: mercola.com/dvd/prescription_for_disaster.htm The Future of Food mercola.com/2007/jan/11/the-future-of-food----you-need-to-watch-this-video.htm

 

[pnewton]

I pay my taxes. I have no problem with paying my income tax. After all, I rely on the military to protect us and drive on highways funded by these taxes. I would respect the authors point of view a little more if he would move away from the U.S. so as not to use any services he does not wish to pay for.

As to the truth of the movie, is there any evidence of what is being presented apart from a movie. It is not exactly a format know for truth. In fact I have already heard things that raise my eyebrows, like how our living standard has declined because of the income tax. This hardly seems credible. In fact the movie is little more than an emotional appeal, with little material for the intellectual appeal.

Now if we every drop an income tax in favor of some other system, I might be all for it. But I do not expect a free ride.

 

[pnewton]

FYI - I found a fairly good synopsis of the refutation of the constitutional arguements proposed by tax protesters.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_constitutional_arguments

 

[kesa82]

I pay my taxes. I have no problem with paying my income tax. After all, I rely on the military to protect us and drive on highways funded by these taxes. I would respect the authors point of view a little more if he would move away from the U.S. so as not to use any services he does not wish to pay for.

As to the truth of the movie, is there any evidence of what is being presented apart from a movie. It is not exactly a format know for truth. In fact I have already heard things that raise my eyebrows, like how our living standard has declined because of the income tax. This hardly seems credible. In fact the movie is little more than an emotional appeal, with little material for the intellectual appeal.

Now if we every drop an income tax in favor of some other system, I might be all for it. But I do not expect a free ride.

I would respect your opinion a great deal more if you would move to one of the many milataristic socialist countries available, and let me keep MY money TO DO FOR MYSELF.
Please dad?
Let’s see a show of hands - how many of us IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR have decent medical, dental, and vision care?
How many of you in the private sector get a pension after 20 years, or 30, or 40?
WHO is asking for a free ride?

 

[pnewton]

I would respect your opinion a great deal more if you would move to one of the many milataristic socialist countries available, and let me keep MY money TO DO FOR MYSELF.

I was referring to the author of the movie who wants services withour taxes, not you, so I do not understand the attittude. As for me, I am happy to stay here and pay my income tax, thank you.

Another thing that I find rather lame about the movie is the equation of America to fascism. This is one indication of lack of substance to this film. Do you view America as a fascist state? I believe the vast majority of Americans do not share this view, putting this film in the wackball, conspiracy theory category.

 

[kesa82]

I was referring to the author of the movie who wants services withour taxes, not you, so I do not understand the attittude. As for me, I am happy to stay here and pay my income tax, thank you.

Another thing that I find rather lame about the movie is the equation of America to fascism. This is one indication of lack of substance to this film. Do you view America as a fascist state? I believe the vast majority of Americans do not share this view, putting this film in the wackball, conspiracy theory category.

" Capitolism was the system originated in the United States.It’s success, its progress, its achievements, are unprecedented in human history. America’s political philosophy was based on mans right to his own life, to his own liberty, to the pursiut of his own happiness, which means; on man’s right to exist for his own sake. That was America’s IMPLICIT moral code, but it had not been formulated explicitly. This was the flaw in her intellectual armor, which is now destroying her. America and capitolism are perishing for lack of a moral base.
The destroyer is the morality of altruism.
Altruism holds that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that service to others is the only moral justification of his existence, and that self-sacrifice is his highest moral duty. The political expression of altruism is collectivism or STATISM, which holds that man’s life and work belong to the state - to society, to the group, the gang, the race, the nation - and that the state may dispose of him in any way it pleases for the sake of whatever it deems to be its own, tribal, collective good. From her start, America was torn by the clash of her political system with the altruist morality. Capitolism and altruism are incompatible ; they cannot coexist in the same man or in the same society. Today, the conflict has reached its ultimate climax; the choice is clear cut : either a new morality of rational self-interest, with its consequences of freedom, justice, progress and man’s happiness on earth - or the primordial morality of altruism, with its consequences of slavery, brute force, stagnant terror, and sacrificial furnaces. You may observe the practical results of altruism and statism all around us in today’s world - such as the slave labor camps of Soviet Russia, where twenty-one million political prisoners work on the construction of government projects and die of PLANNED malnutrition , human life being cheaper than food - or the gas chambers and mass slaughter of Nazi Germany - or the terror and starvation of Red China - or the hysteria of Cuba where the government offers men for sale - or the wall of East Berlin, where human beings leap from roofs or crawl through sewers in order to escape, while gaurds shoot at fleeing CHILDREN.
Observe these atrocities, then ask yourself whether any of it would be possible if men had not excepted the idea that man is a sacrificial animal to be immolated for the sake of the “public good.” Read the speeches of those countries political leaders and ask yourself what arguements would be left to them if the word " sacrifice" were regarded not as a moral ideal, but as the anti-human evil which it is.
And THEN, liscen to the speeches of our present ( Kennedy ) administration - and ask yourself the same question."

                                  - Ayn Rand ,  1962

Now, Ayn Rand was an atheist, and she said many critical things about the Catholic church, so I do not agree with her on significant points. But the above is basically what I think.

 

[kesa82]

I pay my taxes. I have no problem with paying my income tax. After all, I rely on the military to protect us and drive on highways funded by these taxes. I would respect the authors point of view a little more if he would move away from the U.S. so as not to use any services he does not wish to pay for.

As to the truth of the movie, is there any evidence of what is being presented apart from a movie. It is not exactly a format know for truth. In fact I have already heard things that raise my eyebrows, like how our living standard has declined because of the income tax. This hardly seems credible. In fact the movie is little more than an emotional appeal, with little material for the intellectual appeal.

Now if we every drop an income tax in favor of some other system, I might be all for it. But I do not expect a free ride.

" I pay my taxes"
If this statement were directed at the author of the movie then it should have been written something like, " Unlike the author of the movie, I pay my taxes." But as written, it clearly implies a wider group and/or someone else.
Again,
" I have no problem with paying my income tax."
If this statement had been directed at the author of the movie, then as written, it makes no sense. If you meant the author, then why not tack on a few more letters and say " the author" ? As in,
" unlike the author , I have no problem with paying my income tax."
But again, as written, this statement implies others besides the author.
AGAIN,
“After all, I rely on the milatary to protect us and drive on highways funded by these taxes.”
Again, not only do you not specify who, but here you add another twist ; " us"
Who is “us” ? You and your dog? what?
The use of “us” in my experience, invariably implies a " them".
Given the context and the totality of your whole statement the question naturally arises in the mind; who is us and who is them? Does it not so implie?

"As to the truth of the movie, is there any evidence of what is being presented apart from a movie. It is not exactly a format known for truth. "
That is absolutely right. I couldn’t agree more.
But then that is always my criticism of your posts; connotations and implications, flags, symbols, and fictional characters with no pasts. Your posts are propoganda films.
To proceed,
“In fact I have already heard things that raise my eyebrows, like how our living standard has declined because of the income tax.”
Absolutely correct! WHAT DOES the income tax have to DO with the standard of living? Is there actually any causation here?
But here again, it isn’t so much what you say, but the totality and context of your post and what it implies, which is that the logic of your post IS logic.’
That is where the attitude comes from.
People like yourself have been making the arguement for the past 50 years - actually the process has gone on much longer than that, but especially the past 50 years - that if only we pass more laws, and throw more money at the milatary , police, schools, social work, allow ever more - what, just 30 years ago , would have been considered INDECENT - intrusion into our households and lives, then things will get better.
It sounds reasonable and logical.
And so you HAVE had YOUR WAY; the criminal law of one state, never mind the rest of the law, looks like the encyclopedia Brittanica, and police now come in battalions, and parents second-guess themselves at every step because the social worker is watching, and the great public schools teach us that sodomy is good, AND THINGS JUST KEEP GETTING WORSE.
No, it isn’t reasonable and logical.
It is criminal and immoral.

 

[pnewton]

But then that is always my criticism of your posts; connotations and implications, flags, symbols, and fictional characters with no pasts. Your posts are propoganda films.
To proceed,
“In fact I have already heard things that raise my eyebrows, like how our living standard has declined because of the income tax.”
Absolutely correct! WHAT DOES the income tax have to DO with the standard of living? Is there actually any causation here?
But here again, it isn’t so much what you say, but the totality and context of your post and what it implies, which is that the logic of your post IS logic.’
That is where the attitude comes from.
.

If you do not find my post logical or eloquent enough for your taste, all I can say is we can’t all be an Ayn Rand. I am fine with that, because I do not think Rand can understand:

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

 

[kesa82]

Well, no, you have got me there! Actually I greatly enjoy seeing you. One can’t really have any sort of discussion or debate at gun point. Its a nice change from our usual relations.
You use the language quite deftly I think. You are very good training for the intellect.

With all due respect to our redeemer, I think a greater love than this is to refrain from making my enemies lay down their lives, or live out their lives in penury, for my whims.

 

[pnewton]

On a related note, my congressman announced this week that he’s going to run for the Republican presidential nomination. Not that he has a chance, though. He has consistenly been one of the top two tax-payer friendly reps and, on topic, is one of the few that supports repealing the income tax.

thefacts.com/story.lasso?ewcd=9e2347000d786357

 

[jdnation]

tHere is another video “The Money Masters” that explains the history of how we got to the video being discussed . First watch the above then this one below. It quotes Popes Leo XIII and Pius XI at the end of part 2 (1:40min)

part 1
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8753934454816686947&q=money+masters&hl=en

part2
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2665915773877500927&q=money+masters&hl=en

Yes, that is also a good documentary… however it is heavy on technical and historic details and doesn’t present it in an engaging way so it’'ll be somewhat tiresome to watch for many people. But if you want solid arguments and details, it is all there!

As well, keep in mind, fascism can work as long as you manage to make people accept and embrace it believing they require it, and not impose it. But it remains fascism none the less, you simply disguise it… and as long as people still manage to live comfortably and more or less get what they want, it’ll remain… Consumerism has us in its grip.

You’d be surprised how many things detailed in the Communist manifesto are disguised in a new form and promoted and thrive in democratic countries! Our Lady was right to warn us that the errors of Russia were spreading…

 

[kesa82]

I’m going to go off- topic to make some observations ;

I often hear it said, " hey, you cannot compare this to the Third Reich or to the Soviet Union; we aren’t shooting people down in the streets, or shoving them into ovens, we don’t have slave labor camps or massive hate rallies. "

Well, in that narrow sense, I would have to AGREE.

But then…
The other day a little girl was raped and murdered. It was on T.V. , it was in the newspaper, you could not avoid hearing about it even if you wished NOT to hear about it.
Her photograph, for which her surviving relations were not paid royalties ( that Walsh guy on “America’s Most Wanted” seems, though, to have done pretty well off his sons death, as he is WEARING the equivalent of my yearly wages. ) was sandwiched between advertisements for cheeseburgers and SUV’s.
Men whose job it is to put human beings in cages for driving cars without tax stamps claimed to cry over her… even though they did not know her.
Who was she ? Pick a name or face at random, because this is a regular ritual, because the same thing happened last week, last month, last year, year after year. Only the name and face changes. What society was ever so savagely depraved that it used the corpses of little girls, and fear, to sell products and fatten state budgets?
In comparison, the gladiatorial games in the Roman colliseum seem elegantly civilised, seem quaintly restrained.
In relation to that, I have done a lot of walking in my life, because I have often been without a car. Now, granted, I have never actively hitch-hiked. I feel that if I can walk I should - and I am painfully shy. But if someone stops and offers me a ride I think it would be ingratious and egregiously uncharitable in pre-judging a stranger, and cowardly, to refuse the gift.
So I have been going for rides since I was ten.
I am now 38 years old. Now I don’t doubt that it happens that human sharks cruise around picking up pedestrians and killing them. But to hear these people talk , psychopaths are stacked ten- deep on the sidewalks.
So how come I’m 38 years old? How come I’m not dead? I haven’t met that serial killer yet, what I have lost count of is the amount of gas expended by strangers to no apparent gain just to spare me a 45 minute walk.
And I have noticed that it is never those paragons of virtue in Mercedes-Benz’s or those would-be Virgin Mary’s in minivans who offer you a ride, it is always those losers, those muddled marginal sad- sacks in the rusted -out economy- sized Datsun pickup trucks with a two day growth of beard who offer you a ride because of some passage in the Bible that they didn’t even read but only heard about.

Second observation; I never cease to be puzzled by the crude, clumsy, amatuerishness of shooting people down in the streets, or slave labor camps.
Let’s just address the shooting ;
What exactly are you doing when you shoot someone?
Anyone over the age of 35 ( though I realised this when I was 12, and I’m rather dim-witted ) knows that all this talk about the virtue of age is nonsense. What a long life primarily seems to give us is more time to fashion the rope to hang ourselves.
So, when you kill someone, you are unnecessarily lightening Gods workload, and likely frustrating the Byzantine machinations of Lucifer. I.e., when you kill someone you are most likely sending them to heaven that much sooner.
All of which leads us to the conclusion ; to kill a man is far, far, from the worst thing I know of to do to a man.
I can think of MUCH WORSE things to do to you. And, as I said, I’m not particularly bright either.
So, as I have said in other posts elsewhere, the most diabolically evil and deceptive people you will ever meet are pretty, popular, and affluent, and it is entirely possible and plausible that a slave labor camp could be a comfortable and rather pleasant place.
And now I’ll shut up.

 

[kesa82]

On second thought, I would like to say a bit more on the topic of, " what exactly are you doing when you shoot someone ? "

Well, one thing you do when you shoot someone is that you throw into stark relief the issues, arguments, premises, and dogmas involved, and the parties involved.

This is a potentially fatal course of action if your argument, premise, or dogma is a weak one.

I strongly suspect that this is the real reason why such executions as are performed take place behind walls, in closed off rooms, in the darkness.
Gof forbid that a 12 year old boy should see and experience for himself this justice and judge it for himself.
By extension, this is why branding and mutilation and public flogging have been relegated to the Ripley’s believe it or not musuem.
Not for compassions or self-restraints sake.
We haven’t exercised self-restraint in 50 years!
But so that comfortably esconced in our white bread middle class suburbs we can consistently and comprehensively deny that, in fact, if you are breathing you are breaking some law.
It thus remains only for the state to choose to break you , or choose not to break you, as it, or the howling mob, sees fit.
Someone eventually figured out that, precisely because of original sin, it remains only for the state to expend enough imagination and ink to bring everyone and anyone within the reach of prosecution and disrepute.
And with our battalions of lawyers and clerks all making a good living doing it, with xerox copy machines and word processors, this is easily enough done now.
We have a criminal law, a tax law, anti-trust laws, etc. , that the most brutally repressive German Baron of the middle ages could not have imagined - and, I suspect, would not have wanted, because his only weapons were killing, flogging, mutilation and the stocks.
In that sense, it is much worse now.

 

[pnewton]

I’So, as I have said in other posts elsewhere, the most diabolically evil and deceptive people you will ever meet are pretty, popular, and affluent, and it is entirely possible and plausible that a slave labor camp could be a comfortable and rather pleasant place.
And now I’ll shut up.

I wonder if you were to present this view to any of the holocaust survivors at the National Museum if any would agree. “Yes, you had to endure Eichmann and Mengela, but at least you didn’t have the IRS.”

I would recommend some great reading on the psychological impact of labor camps, Victor Frankl’s “Man’s Search for Meaning.” It is an eye-opener as to what day to day life was like.

 

[kesa82]

I wonder if you were to present this view to any of the holocaust survivors at the National Museum if any would agree. “Yes, you had to endure Eichmann and Mengela, but at least you didn’t have the IRS.”

I would recommend some great reading on the psychological impact of labor camps, Victor Frankl’s “Man’s Search for Meaning.” It is an eye-opener as to what day to day life was like.

Hmm, gee, and I thought that Eichmann and Mengele DID match the description of , " pretty, popular, and affluent " .
Now it is interesting that you mention Mengele. I used to have an interest in astrology, and he and I share the same birthday. So he drew my interest. What I found really interesting was that his SS career was all of eight years, and his time, specifically at Aushwitz was all of two years. And all of this according to the letter of German law - which he had no more ,or less , say in than any other voter in the weimar republic - and with a popular mandate.( Watch Leni Refeinstahl’s " Triumph of the Will " and it becomes a little hard to buy the tiny-minority- of- crackpot- racists - ran- the- whole-show theory.) Now what is really interesting is to contrast this brief career with the other 50 years of his existence. It was a singularly odd existence, if we are to believe that he was the cartoon caricature of a Nazi monster. Because he did NOT spend 50 years torturing jewish children. 50 years of his life were… boring. A good read if you are trying to put yourself to sleep.
By all means do study Mengele and Eichmann, and while you are at it, study the extensive biographical and demographic info now available on the Weimar police, the Gestapo, SD, Sipo, and Orpo, and compare it to its contemporary equivalents.
I am always amused , for example, when someone trots out the old theory that if you refused to obey an order to kill jews they would shoot you enstead. No, that wasn’t necessary. A little application of the old adolescent peer pressure familiar to just about everyone was usually sufficient. If it wasn’t, Then tell a man that if he doesn’t go along , " does not work well with others " is going to be stapled to every job application he ever fills out. Tell him to go home and tell his wife and children that dad is going to be working at McDonalds from now on because he is an asocial loser.
That experience sound familiar to anyone ?

 

[Michael_C]

I pay my taxes. I have no problem with paying my income tax. After all, I rely on the military to protect us and drive on highways funded by these taxes. I would respect the authors point of view a little more if he would move away from the U.S. so as not to use any services he does not wish to pay for.

As to the truth of the movie, is there any evidence of what is being presented apart from a movie. It is not exactly a format know for truth. In fact I have already heard things that raise my eyebrows, like how our living standard has declined because of the income tax. This hardly seems credible. In fact the movie is little more than an emotional appeal, with little material for the intellectual appeal.

Now if we every drop an income tax in favor of some other system, I might be all for it. But I do not expect a free ride.

Hi pnewton,

A big part of the problem is exactly what you state. The income tax does not pay for any services. It’s only purpose is to make rich bankers richer.

Gas taxes pay for the infrastructure, Property taxes pay for Education, Corporate taxes pay for the military, Income tax pays the interest on money given to the government by the federal reserve which is not a government entity.

Before pushing the movie aside you should see it.

Peace.

 

[maryalene]

I haven’t watched the movie, but I have read websites before that claim the income tax is voluntary. However, they seemed to hinge on the idea that the 16th Amendment wasn’t ratified because the amendment language was changed slightly by some states. These changes were incidental from what I could tell - missing commas, words such as “the” and “a” missing or added.

I would be interested to know what Supreme Court case ruled that the income tax is voluntary. We had a local court case recently in which an individual was charged for encouraging others not to pay their income taxes since he asserted that they were voluntary. The court ruled against the individual, and I can’t believe that a lower court would rule in opposition to a Supreme Court decision. Maybe it’s already been cited and I missed it, but does anyone know the Supreme Court case?