America was tricked into anti-Communism

[bbarrick8383]

No.
The people who are happy are now filled with hope because they see the most powerful country in the world elect a man of color as president. It gives people of color in other countries a sense that they have value and, as a result, they will also value their unborn children because of the hope and value which are now a part of their inner life.
Your interpretation seems to be based on a lack of understanding of humanity. Every human being needs to have a sense of value based on the sole reality that they are human. Obama’s election will be the spark for the people of color around the world.

Wrong, people of color in other countries have their own leaders of color in their country. It’s just unfortunate that they continue to ruin their own countries. They have not been sitting back thinking “Wow, I’m going to feel worthless until American elects someone who is not white for President.” There have been many, many leaders in this country and others to lead people of color. And when those leaders are gone they forget everything that they stood for in an instant. MLK is a perfect example. An outstanding republican man, and I’d be willing to bet he would not support Obama.

My sense of value comes from my family, because without me they would have to do without.

As people of faith we do not get our freedom from capitalism. We get our freedom from God. Our Christian faith was at its strongest under persecution. Capitalism is not the answer. God is the answer.
What America are you so upset about losing. It appears to me that America is becoming freer. If we experience a backlash from those we have judged as sinners then it is our own doing.

God gave you free will, and under a capitalist country people get to keep that free will. Under any other form of Government you lose part of or all of your free will depending. God should be a part of our country, he should be a part of our Government. But look at the socialist side of things…God is not there. According to the socialist left in this country you can abort at will regardless of age. You can choose who you want to marry regardless of sex. Those who know the truth, the conservatives, they are the ones who want to keep God, Country, Capitalism and Freedom.

We have not judged anyone as sinners, we have just informed them of their sins. If we experience backlash, it is because we are doing our job as Christians.

God is the answer, Capitalism is the answer, Freedom is the answer, Conservatism is the answer, Patriotism is the answer.

 

[hays1122]

No.

The people who are happy are now filled with hope because they see the most powerful country in the world elect a man of color as president. It gives people of color in other countries a sense that they have value and, as a result, they will also value their unborn children because of the hope and value which are now a part of their inner life.
Your interpretation seems to be based on a lack of understanding of humanity. Every human being needs to have a sense of value based on the sole reality that they are human. Obama’s election will be the spark for the people of color around the world.

As people of faith we do not get our freedom from capitalism. We get our freedom from God. Our Christian faith was at its strongest under persecution. Capitalism is not the answer. God is the answer.
What America are you so upset about losing. It appears to me that America is becoming freer. If we experience a backlash from those we have judged as sinners then it is our own doing.

There was so much to your statement. I had to divide my response.
What do you mean by “if we experience a backlash from those we have judged as sinners then it’s our own doing.”
That is one loaded statement.

 

[Oscarthecat]

There were time limits now on welfare in the U.S, and in some cases job training is offered. Sounds like a hand up. There’s no reason why a few more rules can’t be applied.

Hey, that’s sounds OK- just keep adding that “one more thing” to the list of things that fall under the government’s umbrella.

After all, the government is completely on top of everything we’re assigned to it- the budget is balanced, government heath care is top notch, public schools are doing great, I haven’t seen a pothole in years, our prisoners are getting rehabilitated, the FDA has food contamination totally under control, and thanks to the government environmental policies, my car can go 500 miles on a handful of orange rinds.

Yeah, only a crazy right-wing nut could really oppose giving more responsibility over to government bureaucrats-

Originally Posted by Tigertame4
“Nothing is more demeaning than being on welfare”

This is such a bizarre place for you to dig your heels in.

Some people feel a sense of gratitude when others help them, and they feel an obligation to use that help in a meaningful, substantive way.

Other people become angry and indignant when somebody suggests that they use their welfare check to pay for baby formula instead of a manicure.

I can’t believe that society has sunk to the level that we actually have to explain why accepting charity is a humbling experience.

 

[cynic]

Your statement doesn’t logically follow mine-

It is a simple point of fact that those who receive “help” from the government have produced less than those who are funding that “help” with their taxes. If they produced as much as the rest of us, they wouldn’t be eligible for help, and they’d be paying taxes.

Supply and demand determines wage rates. High earners may do more involved work, but it would be hard to demonstrate that they work 50, 100 or 1000 times harder than the lowest paid. Is every cent earned or is it that the scarcity of skills/qualifications determines pay? It could be argued back and forth forever, but it must be a bit of both. So assuming people who work full time aren’t contributing enough because they need to spunge off the “rest of us”, by using some government subsidy or service etc, is a dodgy argument, because it’s using subjective standards, and displays an almost religious belief in the justice of the market.

What you perceive as “hate” is, in reality, a sort of “tough love” that stems from my faith that everyone has the potential to become productive members of society, that there are enough good people willing to help them do that, and that anyone who wants to overcome the challenges of poverty has to put in a lot of hard work.

Tough love is the kind a parent might practice with a child. The consequences of tough love aren’t starving or becoming homeless, with no guarantee of help. That’s not tough love, or even conditional love.

I think it is ironic that you accuse me of spewing “hate filled rhetoric” when you have gone on in this and other threads about how those in need are simply incapable of becoming productive members of society,

gee funny how I don’t recall saying that.

and how you dismiss the whole idea of “charity” as a pipe dream based on your belief that the majority of people with means are hopelessly devoid of any concern for their fellow man.

Then take the moral high ground if you like. The majority of the population aren’t Catholic, or practicing Christian, but yes you are better than I for assuming the best of your fellow man, regardless of outcome, and let’s ignore your wholey negative characterization of those currently receiving assistance from the state.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Supply and demand determines wage rates. High earners may do more involved work, but it would be hard to demonstrate that they work 50, 100 or 1000 times harder than the lowest paid. Is every cent earned or is it that the scarcity of skills/qualifications determines pay? It could be argued back and forth forever, but it must be a bit of both.

This is extremely interesting, because it is what is killing the Big 3 automakers right now. Their wages are not supply/demand driven. They are union driven.

In a major distribution center that I worked as a young man, we were not union. We started out at less than 10 bucks an hour and from there, the sky was the limit if you wanted it to be. I started out loading trailers, in about a year I had gotten bumped up to “Dock Runner”. I did not make more money, physically the job was easier, but I had to manage all of the loaders that I had worked with for so long. Jealousy kind of kicked in from them and becoming these guys sort of psuedo-boss really began to stink. But, it was the second rung on that ladder, and the corporation did not have to worry about a union stepping in and forcing rules and restrictions on them to pay me or those under me a certain amount.

Every year, this company would cut us a check depending on their profit of that year. It was a really enjoyable experience to see Capitalism at it’s finest. The great thing was at 10 bucks an hour to an 18 year old, that’s not bad money in a cheap area of the country to live.

 

[thomfra]

…my method is “tough love,”

You are yet to explain how your tough love should be dished out **to children **who haven’t actually had the chance to put in a more concerted effort to become contributers…

“Sorry mack, your parents are lazy. You get nothing.”

 

[mapleoak]

You are yet to explain how your tough love should be dished out **to children **who haven’t actually had the chance to put in a more concerted effort to become contributers…

“Sorry mack, your parents are lazy. You get nothing.”

Sure you can help them. Why not volunteer at the local soup kitchen. Ours could use some more help. If we could get some of the people waiting for government to make the problem go away to instead come and do something useful, maybe someone might have something to eat tonight.

 

[thomfra]

Sure you can help them. Why not volunteer at the local soup kitchen. Ours could use some more help. If we could get some of the people waiting for government to make the problem go away to instead come and do something useful, maybe someone might have something to eat tonight.

Is this your answer to the growing disparity between rich and poor?

"Man up the soup kitchens!"???

 

[bbarrick8383]

Is this your answer to the growing disparity between rich and poor?
"Man up the soup kitchens!"???

Most of the poor have had it better in this country than they ever have.

Are you calling the guy standing at the intersection poor? The same guy that’s bringing in more money than I am untaxed?

As for the children and those who are truly poor and not looking to cheat the system, your state should be taking care of them. Not your Federal Government.

 

[NTOT]

Is this your answer to the growing disparity between rich and poor?

"Man up the soup kitchens!"???

Just what I said earlier. Breeding contempt and jealousy between classes of people. If you have, why not give those you see that don’t have. This rather than complain about how what your neighbor has that you don’t have.
Yes, manning the soup kitchens addresses a very important corporal work of mercy. Again, our soup kitchen needs more people to help us out.

 

[mapleoak]

Is this your answer to the growing disparity between rich and poor?

"Man up the soup kitchens!"???

Do you believe it is better to incite envy between the rich and poor, or is it better to feed those in need?

 

[mapleoak]

As for the children and those who are truly poor and not looking to cheat the system, your state should be taking care of them. Not your Federal Government.

It would be interesting if we could see how many Obamanites volunteer regularly at their local shelters and kitchens, and pregnancy centers.

 

[thomfra]

Do you believe it is better to incite envy between the rich and poor, or is it better to feed those in need?

Incite envy!??!?! please explain.

 

[thomfra]

It would be interesting if we could see how many Obamanites volunteer regularly at their local shelters and kitchens, and pregnancy centers.

Is this your answer?

 

[mapleoak]

Incite envy!??!?! please explain.

What would you call a “growing disparity between the rich and the poor”?
An attempt at pitting haves against have nots.

 

[mapleoak]

Is this your answer?

Answer to what?
If the question is does government redistribution help the poor more than does local soup kitchens, the answer is no.

 

[Ronald_E]

There was so much to your statement. I had to divide my response.
What do you mean by “if we experience a backlash from those we have judged as sinners then it’s our own doing.”
That is one loaded statement.

I have a tendency to make loaded statements. Every problem we have begins as an internal human relationship problem. We have a programmed instinctive response to ourselves and others from the time our brain is fully formed in the womb. Mirror neurons are specialized brain cells that are spread throughout the brain and they record interpersonal interactions and the consequences of these experiences. The brain then is stimulated to wire itself accordingly as a way of beginning the process of socialization and adaptation to an unknown world to help increase the chances for survival.
Prejudice has its seeds sown in this unconscious process depending on the disposition of those who are responsible for raising and educating us. When we judge others we become part of their history of prejudice acted out against them and consequently we become an opponent.
In a free society it becomes extremely important to understand how words and actions affect those who are most vulnerable. Every person desires to have a sense of belonging and value. We who are more fortunate have the immense responsibility to assist those who have been born into situations which place them in a disenfranchised circumstance.
God requires us to love those who are different from us. Jesus gave us the Beatitudes as a way of beginning this process.
As a matter of fact how would you describe the system employed by the apostles in the book of Acts?

 

[cynic]

Sure you can help them. Why not volunteer at the local soup kitchen. Ours could use some more help. If we could get some of the people waiting for government to make the problem go away to instead come and do something useful, maybe someone might have something to eat tonight.

Problem is that people like you want to take away public education, or government funding for education (vouchers). Basically removing access for a large number of children, all because you are being taxed.

Sure, take away the means to become self-sufficient as adults, but help out serving the same group soup in a shelter. Nice.

 

[thomfra]

Problem is that people like you want to take away public education, or government funding for education (vouchers). Basically removing access for a large number of children, all because you are being taxed.

Sure, take away the means to become self-sufficient as adults, but help out serving the same group soup in a shelter. Nice.

Nobody denies that feeding the hungry is a noble cause. But when it is used as the solution to poverty, as opposed to the development of an equitable society, then you have a problem.

Methinks the reason mapeloak prefers soup kitchens to fair wealth distribution is that a soup kitchen forces people to crawl, to show their gratitude to him. He gets to look them square in the eye, and make sure they are not actually homeless and with a mobile phone (Re. statement from Ruthie!?!??!). Somehow this gives him such a nice big fuzzy feeling inside he can justify hording his money to make sure nobody is getting too much without the requisite grovelling.

The poor should feel grateful, and humbled…not go around with a feeling of worth, or, shock horror a feeling of “entitlement” (what, with them being citizens, past/potential tax payers and all).

 

[mapleoak]

Problem is that people like you want to take away public education, or government funding for education (vouchers). Basically removing access for a large number of children, all because you are being taxed.

Well, of course I didn’t mention public education as that is whole different can of worms which can be addressed separately. Basically, vouchers hike the cost of private education while doing nothing in regards to public education.

Sure, take away the means to become self-sufficient as adults, but help out serving the same group soup in a shelter. Nice.

Not only do we need people to help out in our shelters and kitchens, but also in programs which are designed to help people get on track so that they can earn a living. We also need help at the pregnancy and maternity centers. We are looking for more people good at constuction willing to help us in our efforts to help people get themselves into their own homes and to help with employment training programs. Our shelters offer free meals and a place to stay to serve the immediate needs. They also offer means to address the long term needs of those willing to better themselves. So no, you are incorrect in that we ‘take away’ the means to be self sufficient. Quite the opposite. What are you doing to help people be self sufficient? Waiting for the government to give them a redistribution check?