Americans Vote for Maturity

[Andrew1983]

You are aware that there is a huge difference between Socialism and Communism, right? Anyone who has taken any political science class or knows anything about political theory will tell you this.

Socialism: The view that the government should control all essential businesses and programs (eg. electric companies, healthcare companies, housing projects, etc.). Other businesses, such as shoe companies or clothing companies, should be held in private hands.

Communism: The view that society should be Atheist, classless, and that no one should have private property. All things are to be owned by the government.

I’m sure you can see the difference.

Either way, Obama isn’t a communist for various reasons. He does have some socialist views, but so do most politicians. That doesn’t make him a socialist because a socialist, by definition, is someone who advocates for the government running all essential businesses. Keyword here is ALL. You can’t be “half-socialist”. It’s all or nothing.

Most of my friends are liberal. Does this make me liberal?

Your argument is based on the association fallacy and has no standing.

All Communists ARE Socialists. Not all Socialists are Communists, though one wonders if they are not but “useful idiots”, especially in light of this famous quote:

“We cannot expect the Americans to jump from capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialism until they suddenly awake to find they have Communism.”

• Soviet Leader Nikita Khrushchev, 1959

I’m sorry my there is no fallacy in my “guilt by association” argument for this reason which I will pose to you in a question: Would you intentionally select individuals to serve in your administration despite knowing that they carry a view opposed to your own?

Generally speaking, you pick people who are sympathetic to your viewpoints, political compromises not withstanding.

 

[dixieagle]

I agree with her analysis regarding Palin. I think this statement also applies to Obama: “Here is an old tradition badly in need of return: You have to earn your way into politics. You should go have a life, build a string of accomplishments, then enter public service.”

…but don’t hold your breath for a “liberal luminary” to criticize Obama in the same way. He came in without the experience and string of accomplishments, but this doesn’t seem to bother Democrats.

You’re so right! Though I think he is far brighter than Sarah Palin, he didn’t finish what he started, either (Senate term.)

 

[ishii]

What do you gain by putting your fingers into your ears and keep saying, “I’m not listening, Ms. Noonan. I’m not listening, Ms. Noonan”?

I’m quite liberal, yet I read what conservatives have to say.

Noonan lost her credibility when she came out in favor of Obama. Whether she’s conservative or liberal is irrelevant. She voted for the most left-wing member of the senate for the presidency. Now she wants me to think of her as some conservative voice of wisdom? now?

Ishii

 

[ishii]

I bet you she is one of those that is regretting voting for Obama right now----BIG TIME.

The problem with the “intellectual” type of conservatives like Noonan and (let’s say) David Brooks and Christopher Buckley, is that they ultimately TOO intellectual----and as a result, out of the mainstream of current American Public Opinion. They just PRETEND they are relevant. Brooks particularly is not really conservative----he’s just what the New York Times puts out as its own version of a “Conservative.”
Buckley ALSO voted for Obama, BTW (Wonder what dearly missed Daddy thought of THAT)—earning him a dismissal from National Review. Oh, well.
Wonder if he is regretting that decision ALSO.

It gave him something to brag about at the cocktail parties.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

It gave him something to brag about at the cocktail parties.

True enough.

BTW, Buckley Sr. was an Intellectual (of the First Class) as well, but his Intellectualism was also balanced by a Good Deal Of Common Sense. I VERY much doubt he would have fallen for the Messianic-type “Obama Is Change” Spiel that his Son and Noonan apparently fell for.

Buckley Sr. also had an ability to carry an argument to its logical conclusion, which Junior apparently cannot. Pretty Fair Novelist, though, Junior is.

 

[1voice]

You compare Palin and her “accomplishments” to President Reagan and his?

She is a great draw, a good booster, and even a good money raiser, but Republicans are too wise to let her run for President. Tht would give Obama a win in '12 on a silver platter.

Im comparing how prominent Republicans with strong conservative values are treated and vilified. The other posters are the ones that assumed I was talking about a presidential run … I think her strength is as a fund raiser and conservative freedom fighter using the bully pulpit that she fashioned for herself. The left created an image as fast as they could… just as they did with Dan Quayle. That is the image that they do everything that they can to maintain… She has already carved a wide swath through the libs … she is defeating them all across the country, hands down, without running for office.
That said…
Palin has more practical and leadership experience by far than Obama had when he was elected. I would have to see who else throws their hat in the ring next year. The media works very hard to destroy people that have excellent qualifications by focusing on things that have little to do with leadership skills. Rudy Giuliani/ Divorce and Mitt Romney/ Mormon …

 

[1voice]

Goodness, is that supposed to pass as some sort of acute insight?

“If the people we pick to represent our organization are demonstrably crazy, we won’t be successful.”

I think Rep. Bob Inglis’ assessment of the Tea Party is much more profound.
motherjones.com/politics/2010/08/bob-inglis-tea-party-casualty

Just because Bob Inglis doesnt think Obama is a socialist does not make the Tea Party crazy. Obama’s agenda is to get as much govt control of our lives as possible and dole it out as libs see fit. They act on a fundamental level based on the fact that everything belongs to the govt and it has every right to create laws that control everything. That is the same as they now have in Europe …and it is European style socialism.