Amnesty Dead for now!

[MulusChristi]

Hallelujah! There is hope for the upholding the rule of law!

The Senate sidetracked sweeping immigration legislation Friday, leaving in doubt prospects for passing a bill offering the hope of citizenship to millions of men, women and children living in the United States illegally.

A carefully crafted compromise that supporters had claimed could win an overwhelming majority received only 38 of the 60 votes necessary to protect it from weakening amendments by opponents.

breitbart.com/news/2006/04/07/D8GR7DSO6.html

Now let’s start enforcing our current laws!

 

[Geldain]

MulusChristi:

Hallelujah! There is hope for the upholding the rule of law!

The Senate sidetracked sweeping immigration legislation Friday, leaving in doubt prospects for passing a bill offering the hope of citizenship to millions of men, women and children living in the United States illegally.

A carefully crafted compromise that supporters had claimed could win an overwhelming majority received only 38 of the 60 votes necessary to protect it from weakening amendments by opponents.

breitbart.com/news/2006/04/07/D8GR7DSO6.html

Now let’s start enforcing our current laws!

:clapping: AWESOME!!!

 

[Della]

Tell me why this is so wonderful? I didn’t see anything intrinsically bad in the compromise the Senate had worked out. IMHO, trying to keep immigrant workers out of our country isn’t going to do anything except make illegals more desperate and harden the Mexican government even more against us. The reality is that those who come here every year to pick our crops and do other lowly tasks we Americans won’t do (which I think a shame when we have so many living on welfare and entitlements), need to be acknowledged for their contributions to our society instead of penalized for not being citizens.

 

[Geldain]

From where I sit, giving amnesty to anyone, from anywhere who breaks US law is a step down the road towards lawlessness.

Also, from where I sit, lawlessness does not provide an environment where human dignity is possible.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

MulusChristi:

Hallelujah! There is hope for the upholding the rule of law!

The Senate sidetracked sweeping immigration legislation Friday, leaving in doubt prospects for passing a bill offering the hope of citizenship to millions of men, women and children living in the United States illegally.

A carefully crafted compromise that supporters had claimed could win an overwhelming majority received only 38 of the 60 votes necessary to protect it from weakening amendments by opponents.

breitbart.com/news/2006/04/07/D8GR7DSO6.html

Now let’s start enforcing our current laws!

Actually, that’s not what happened. I watched it on CSPAN-2. Primary sources are wonderful things!

What happened is that the Republicans wanted up to 20 amendments to the bill and the Democrats said that would be fine if the Senate would invoke Cloture on a Motion to Commit on the Hagel-Martinez Amendment…the cloture vote was procedural only, not on the bill itself.

Of course, the Republicans probably plan to use this politically to make it look like “we tried, we really did but those eeeeeeeevil Democrats wouldn’t work with us.” It’s a lie and I watched it happen, LIVE on CSPAN-2.

 

[wabrams]

Everyone knows where I stand on this issue, but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter if they give illegals amnesty or not. What matters first is border security to make sure as few as possible come over or if no amnesty all those kicked out can’t get back in.

I say build the wall, then kick the 11 mil. out

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Geldain:

From where I sit, giving amnesty to anyone, from anywhere who breaks US law is a step down the road towards lawlessness.

Also, from where I sit, lawlessness does not provide an environment where human dignity is possible.

I wish I could speak to how kind of thinking affects one’s view of the Sacrament of Reconciliation…God forgives confessed sin, allowing us to avoid the big, hard punishment of hell and only requires a lighter, temporal punishment.

This bill would have done much the same. The immigrant comes forward and registers (confesses), allowing them to avoid the big, hard punishment of banishment from the US (theoretically for up to 10 years minimum but realistically for life), and requires a fine $2000 be paid, waiting period of 6 for permanent residency (step 2 on the road to citizenship) and the like.

Yeah, that’s really going to lead to lawlessness.

Guess what? There’s insufficient manpower and funding to “enforce the laws.” Further, the laws don’t function anyway because they are written in such a way as to be unworkable and inflexible. A comprehensive reform of the entire immigration system is necessary if the issue of illegal immigration is to be resolved. Also, constant updating of the laws is also necessary to meet the real world challenges involved in such a complicated matter.

But, I believe that Republicans didn’t really want reform, they wanted an issue to use against the Democrats in this years mid-term elections, just like in 2004 because wedge issued tend to work.

How sad.

 

[wabrams]

LCMS_No_More:

Actually, that’s not what happened. I watched it on CSPAN-2. Primary sources are wonderful things!

What happened is that the Republicans wanted up to 20 amendments to the bill and the Democrats said that would be fine if the Senate would invoke Cloture on a Motion to Commit on the Hagel-Martinez Amendment…the cloture vote was procedural only, not on the bill itself.

Of course, the Republicans probably plan to use this politically to make it look like “we tried, we really did but those eeeeeeeevil Democrats wouldn’t work with us.” It’s a lie and I watched it happen, LIVE on CSPAN-2.

the Hagel-Martinez Amendment stinks. After seeing this:

http://www.nationalreview.com/images/upsidedown.jpg

I say to heck with the amnesty. I’m surprised they haven’t protested in San Antonio and urinated on the Alamo.
You know, you go to any other country in the world illegally, wave your home countries flag around, and yell “F the government,” with signs to boot, they would deport you so fast your head would spin. But not in the good ole USA, the land of laws: we wouldn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.

 

[MulusChristi]

Della:

Tell me why this is so wonderful? I didn’t see anything intrinsically bad in the compromise the Senate had worked out. IMHO, trying to keep immigrant workers out of our country isn’t going to do anything except make illegals more desperate and harden the Mexican government even more against us. The reality is that those who come here every year to pick our crops and do other lowly tasks we Americans won’t do (which I think a shame when we have so many living on welfare and entitlements), need to be acknowledged for their contributions to our society instead of penalized for not being citizens.

We did this in the 1980s and now we have 11 million.

As to Mexico, the only way it could be more against us is if it invaded with actual military forces. They are already giving maps to “immigrants”.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

wabrams:

the Hagel-Martinez Amendment stinks. After seeing this:

http://www.nationalreview.com/images/upsidedown.jpg

I say to heck with the amnesty. I’m surprised they haven’t protested in San Antonio and urinated on the Alamo.
You know, you go to any other country in the world illegally, wave your home countries flag around, and yell “F the government,” with signs to boot, they deport you so fast your head would spin.

First, it is false to call any of the proposals amnesty. Words mean things…including the word amnesty.

Second, it appears that people are being driven by the the emotional symbols and not reality and reason. Idiots do stupid things (the flag thing) and that sullies your opinion of illegal immigrants in general. The apparent Republican strategy of this mid-term election year is working.

 

[MulusChristi]

LCMS_No_More:

Guess what? There’s insufficient manpower and funding to “enforce the laws.” (

No, there is insufficient will. And wabrams most recent post shows where the illegal immigration is leading us.

 

[wabrams]

LCMS_No_More:

First, it is false to call any of the proposals amnesty. Words mean things…including the word amnesty.

At the end of the day it is amnesty; don’t try to pretend it’s something it isn’t.

LCMS_No_More:

Second, it appears that people are being driven by the the emotional symbols and not reality and reason. Idiots do stupid things (the flag thing) and that sullies your opinion of illegal immigrants in general.

ANd don’t forget the protesters attacking non-latinos in California, the mostly Mexican flags at protests, the claim that it is their land anyway, etc etc.

LCMS_No_More:

The apparent Republican strategy of this mid-term election year is working.

No better or worse than what the Dems want. This issue isn’t Republican or Democrat, it’s who has the most back bone to do the right thing.

 

[MulusChristi]

LCMS_No_More:

I wish I could speak to how kind of thinking affects one’s view of the Sacrament of Reconciliation…God forgives confessed sin, allowing us to avoid the big, hard punishment of hell and only requires a lighter, temporal punishment.

Beautiful reflection on reconciliation. But there is just one problem. Reconciliation requires contrition on the part of the offender. I didn’t see alot of contrition in those marches over the last week. Or were those Mexican flags symbols of contrition?

 

[LCMS_No_More]

MulusChristi:

We did this in the 1980s and now we have 11 million.

No we didn’t.

 

[wabrams]

LCMS_No_More:

No we didn’t.

Yes we did. The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. Amnesty started in 1987. At that point there was an estimated 2.5 mil illegal immigrants in this country. The amnesty was a failure becuase almost no one took advantage of it. I guess they figured they didn’t need to be citizens before the act, why become one after the act?

 

[LCMS_No_More]

wabrams:

At the end of the day it is amnesty; don’t try to pretend it’s something it isn’t.

Nope.

am·nes·ty Audio pronunciation of “amnesty” ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mn-st)
n. pl. am·nes·ties

A general pardon granted by a government, especially for political offenses.

tr.v. am·nes·tied, am·nes·ty·ing, am·nes·ties

To grant a general pardon to.

Not a general pardon, there were still penalties involved.

ANd don’t forget the protesters attacking non-latinos in California, the mostly Mexican flags at protests, the claim that it is their land anyway, etc etc.

The acts of a few fools does not reflect the opinion of all. Should I say that the KKK represents the views of all white people? How about the Black Panthers for all black people?

No better or worse than what the Dems want. This issue isn’t Republican or Democrat, it’s who has the most back bone to do the right thing.

Dems?

Normally, it wouldn’t be a partisan issue, but it is now. The cloture vote went down on partisan lines. It’s the wedge issue of 2006 that the Republicans are going to use this year in their election campaigns. That’s how they win…by dividing people with wedge issues.

 

[gilliam]

Amnesty is not dead.

Active Senate Legislation
www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/b_three_sections_with_teasers/active_leg_page.htm
The McKennedy bill is S 1033 and its related bills are listed there. Frist’s bill is S 2454 and is the companion bill to HR 4437.

 

[screwoelmexico]

Della:

Tell me why this is so wonderful? I didn’t see anything intrinsically bad in the compromise the Senate had worked out. IMHO, trying to keep immigrant workers out of our country isn’t going to do anything except make illegals more desperate and harden the Mexican government even more against us. The reality is that those who come here every year to pick our crops and do other lowly tasks we Americans won’t do (which I think a shame when we have so many living on welfare and entitlements), need to be acknowledged for their contributions to our society instead of penalized for not being citizens.

If the Mexican Anarchy despises the American Government for ENFORCING HER LAWS then LETS GO TO WAR. I actually believe a conflict with Mexico or Mexicans will be neccesary in the future. Cut welfare, coerce the companies to pay minimum wage and we will cover the work deficet. What have mexican contributed to society? A Bunch of work? We can fulfill the working deficit. THEY ARE CRIMINALS! Deport them!

 

[MikeWM]

It’s the way you are treating these people that is leading to this anger from the immigrant community.

If you restructure your economy so no illegal immigrants are required, then the cards are placed differently. But it is extremely unfair to treat these people like dirt at the same time as needing them to keep everything ticking over. While you need them, treat them right.

Mike

 

[screwoelmexico]

wabrams:

the Hagel-Martinez Amendment stinks. After seeing this:

http://www.nationalreview.com/images/upsidedown.jpg

I say to heck with the amnesty. I’m surprised they haven’t protested in San Antonio and urinated on the Alamo.
You know, you go to any other country in the world illegally, wave your home countries flag around, and yell “F the government,” with signs to boot, they would deport you so fast your head would spin. But not in the good ole USA, the land of laws: we wouldn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.

WOW. You have it the nail on the hammar. I think the discussion should be where should we hang these treasoners! If an idivdual raises thier indigenous flag OVER THE HOSTS flag that is undermining our SOCIETY. I have lost 15 members of my family in every American war! The MEXICANS ARE USURPING OUR SYSTEM. WHY DONT WE SEE A REVIVAL OF THE WHITE HETERO MALE?
Interseting topic.