An EV comments on the ongoing struggle between Catholics and LDS.

[Mudcat]

Hi all,

I want to be up front and say I don’t speak for all Evangelicals as my views aren’t normative in some respects. I represent myself . I have felt compelled to post this here.

Attention has been drawn to this debate amongst Catholics and LDS. In a number of respects I can the angst between the two groups. Each seems to make bold claims that they are the one true Church.

I don’t make claims that my specific denomination is the one true Church. Rather that all Christ believers are members of his Church.

In some respects, on the road of faith, we all stand upon the shoulders of those who have come before us to some degree. I suppose it is easy see where we think someone has made mistakes in their path, because we believe those that they followed were mistaken.

Ultimately, don’t we all stand upon the shoulders of Christ? I think between l the aforementioned faiths, none would disagree with the notion that salvation is something we can provide ourselves. I think we would all agree salvation is impossible without Christ.

I am hoping there comes a point when we realize we are all standing upon the shoulders of Christ and that we can honestly say. “I love you brother, I love you sister.”

Respectfully,

Mudcat

 

[zerinus]

Attention has been drawn to this debate amongst Catholics and LDS.

What attention? Which debate?

In a number of respects I can the angst between the two groups. Each seems to make bold claims that they are the one true Church.

What “angst”? I don’t know of any angst. Each has its own set of beliefs, which at some points may clash, including the belief about which Church is the authoritative representative of God. And everyone is entitled to their respective beliefs.

I don’t make claims that my specific denomination is the one true Church. Rather that all Christ believers are members of his Church.

Well, Evans believe that both Catholics and Mormons are not Christians at all! I think it is a bit hypocritical of an Evan to try to settle the “angst” between Catholics and Mormons.

In some respects, on the road of faith, we all stand upon the shoulders of those who have come before us to some degree.

Who are “we”? Don’t count me among the Evans, whatever you do! I would rather be Catholic than Evangelical any day.

I suppose it is easy see where we think someone has made mistakes in their path, because we believe those that they followed were mistaken.

It is? Have you figured where you have gone wrong yet? Or do you just get a kick out of pulling the mote out of your brother’s eyes, while ignoring the beam in your own?

Ultimately, don’t we all stand upon the shoulders of Christ? I think between l the aforementioned faiths, none would disagree with the notion that salvation is something we can provide ourselves. I think we would all agree salvation is impossible without Christ.

I am hoping there comes a point when we realize we are all standing upon the shoulders of Christ and that we can honestly say. “I love you brother, I love you sister.”

Again, who are “we”? As a Mormon I feel I have a lot more in common with Catholics than with Evangelicals. I don’t fancy being lumped together with the Evans, if that is alright with you.

 

[Javl]

Hi all,

I want to be up front and say I don’t speak for all Evangelicals as my views aren’t normative in some respects. I represent myself . I have felt compelled to post this here.

Attention has been drawn to this debate amongst Catholics and LDS. In a number of respects I can the angst between the two groups. Each seems to make bold claims that they are the one true Church.

I’m glad you speak for yoursef because I, and many others, see no angst between us at all. Disagreements, yes, but nothing else.

I don’t make claims that my specific denomination is the one true Church. Rather that all Christ believers are members of his Church.

The Catholic Church **IS ** the one true Church and has been for the past 2000 years. It teaches today exactly what Jesus and the Apostles taught. Everything that Christianity is and has today originated in the Catholic Church. And we Catholics consider all non-Catholic Christians as our separated brothers and sisters.

In some respects, on the road of faith, we all stand upon the shoulders of those who have come before us to some degree. I suppose it is easy see where we think someone has made mistakes in their path, because we believe those that they followed were mistaken.

Can I ask who is we? Evangelicals alone or all Christians? As for mistakes and errors, yes many have been made. Because of these we have schisms and 30,000 plus different Christian denominations.

Ultimately, don’t we all stand upon the shoulders of Christ? I think between l the aforementioned faiths, none would disagree with the notion that salvation is something we can provide ourselves. I think we would all agree salvation is impossible without Christ.

I agree. That is why I am a Christian. I believe in and trust in Jesus Christ.

I am hoping there comes a point when we realize we are all standing upon the shoulders of Christ and that we can honestly say. “I love you brother, I love you sister.”

Respectfully,

Mudcat

With a few exceptions, we all call each other brother and sister. Don’t we all have the same Father and “Big Brother”? Shalom haMeshiach

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[SirThomasMore]

Not sure there is angst. When the Pope came to the US, he called for a meeting and sent invites to various churches…two LDS A’apostles" came when he called.

The essential problem is, the Catholic Church’s position on the LDS Church is that they are led by a false prophet.

If you are a Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, etc. and become Catholic, your prior Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, etc. baptism is recongnized. If you are Mormon and come to the Catholic, you must get rebaptized because the Catholic Church does not recognize an LDS Baptism.

Is that angst? No. It just is what it is.

 

[PaulDupre]

Ultimately, don’t we all stand upon the shoulders of Christ?

Which Christ? The Mormon Christ or the Christian Christ? Mormon leaders have admitted that they believe in a different Jesus than the Christians do.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I haven’t seen the struggle between LDS and Catholics. I have seen that a couple of LDS participants here at CAF have a struggle with CAF, and former LDS. Like zerinus here, who tells us he loves Catholics…unless they are former LDS.

 

[dianaiad]

Which Christ? The Mormon Christ or the Christian Christ? Mormon leaders have admitted that they believe in a different Jesus than the Christians do.

Oh, I want the quote on that one, Paul. WHERE is there any quote, from any LDS leader, anywhere at any time that says we believe in a “different Christ than Christians do?”

I mean, really???

 

[manualman]

Hi all,

I don’t make claims that my specific denomination is the one true Church. Rather that all Christ believers are members of his Church.

In some respects, on the road of faith, we all stand upon the shoulders of those who have come before us to some degree. I suppose it is easy see where we think someone has made mistakes in their path, because we believe those that they followed were mistaken.

Many times there are enormously important assumptions underlying people’s statements that they have not consciously realized.

Implicit in your statements above seems to be the idea that some very important things concerning the nature of God, the nature of man and the meaning of the Incarnation were NOT clearly and unambiguously revealed to humanity by the Father. Therefore, nobody should think the interpretation of his group on those issues is “more correct” than that of any other group.

While on the surface, this is very “nice” it is a death blow to one of the most critical tenets of christianity. The very essence of the faith is that God loves us so much that He came and became one of us to save us from ourselves. You can’t admit to the idea that Mormon theology is just as likely to be correct as catholic or calvinist theology unless you are (consciously or not) first accepting the assertion that God didn’t leave a clear revelation. The idea that He then abandoned us with nothing more than vague and arguable ideas about Himself is simply unacceptable to those of us who know and love Him.

 

[Mudcat]

After reading the responses, I feel I have made a mistake.

Apparently Catholic and LDS relations are relatively frictionless and my observation was in error.

My apologies for needlessly inserting myself into a nonexistent situation.

Kind Regards,

Mudcat

 

[Todd520]

After reading the responses, I feel I have made a mistake.
Apparently Catholic and LDS relations are relatively frictionless and my observation was in error.

**Puss no business ina dawg fight **
(Jamaican saying)

 

[Mudcat]

**Puss no business ina dawg fight **
(Jamaican saying)

Your right, I have no business in a dawg fight.

I do appreciate your recognition that there is a “dawg fight” ongoing though.

…why make peace when you can make war… eh.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Oh, I want the quote on that one, Paul. WHERE is there any quote, from any LDS leader, anywhere at any time that says we believe in a “different Christ than Christians do?”

I mean, really???

Diana, you should really keep up with what your prophets say

“President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.’ ” —LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p. 7

 

[SirThomasMore]

Vatican says Mormon baptisms are invalid

Vatican says Mormon baptisms are invalid

National Catholic Reporter

August 10, 2001

by Gill Donovan

The baptism conferred by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints cannot be considered a valid Christian baptism, said the Vatican’s doctrinal congregation.

The ruling by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was published in the July 16-17 edition of the Vatican newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, after being approved by Pope John Paul II.

While the Mormon baptismal rite refers to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Mormon beliefs about the identity of the three persons is so different from Catholic and mainline Christian belief that “one cannot even consider this doctrine to be a heresy arising from a false understanding of Christian doctrine,” said a Vatican explanation of the ruling.

The notice, dated June 5, was signed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, prefect of the congregation, and by Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone, secretary.

 

[SirThomasMore]

it is pretty bad when your beliefs are so far out there they go beyond heresy

 

[PaulDupre]

Diana, you should really keep up with what your prophets say

“President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.’ ” —LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p. 7

It is very telling that Diana did not know of that quote.

 

[manualman]

Your right, I have no business in a dawg fight.

I do appreciate your recognition that there is a “dawg fight” ongoing though.

…why make peace when you can make war… eh.

There is real peace based on resolved conflict.

And then there is Neville Chamberlain “peace” based on apathy and/or captitulation.

I would assert that pretending there is no conflict in the name of peace is the latter rather than the former.

 

[blueadept]

Oh, I want the quote on that one, Paul. WHERE is there any quote, from any LDS leader, anywhere at any time that says we believe in a “different Christ than Christians do?”

I mean, really???

I remember listening to this General Conference (Oct 2007) talk by Elder Holland with my LDS wife. The talk was entitled “The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent”

“So any criticism that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not hold the contemporary Christian view of God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost is not a comment about our commitment to Christ but rather a recognition (accurate, I might add) that our view of the Godhead breaks with post–New Testament Christian history and returns to the doctrine taught by Jesus Himself.”

Needless to say, my wife and I had opposite opinions of how well we liked the talk.

Perhaps Mudcat (OP) has seen too many of my posts on the other board where my Catholic faith and my wife’s LDS faith has obviously rubbed each other wrong. It’s to the point that I’ll be shortly divorced (civilly) even though our marriage was blessed in the RCC. I will admit that I feel we are both following two different Gods at this point even though I know better.

 

[Javl]

Oh, I want the quote on that one, Paul. WHERE is there any quote, from any LDS leader, anywhere at any time that says we believe in a “different Christ than Christians do?”

I mean, really???

Diana:

Sorry to say, but in my discussions with an LSD member in another thread, he admitted that there was a difference between the Mormon Trinity and Christian Trinity. This difference not only involves different belief, but also different make up.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

P.S. Is it possible not all Mormons hold to the same belief?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

QUOTE=SirThomasMore;6994042]it is pretty bad when your beliefs are so far out there they go beyond heresy

]

I think the vatican quote clarifies that for a doctrine to qualify as a heresy, must first stem from the original Christian doctrine on the Trinity then changed makes it a heresy.

(“one cannot even consider this doctrine to be a heresy arising from a false understanding of Christian doctrine,” said a Vatican explanation of the ruling.)

The LDS definition of the Trinity never makes the cut to even be considered founded on the biblical Christian faith from Apostles.

This is not a negative remark about the LDS new doctrine of their trinity faith, but only reveals it cannot be a heresy because it has no foundation from the Apostolic faith to leave or lend itself into heresy.

In other words, the LDS trinity doctrine comes from another source other than the Trinity doctrine taught and revealed by Jesus. The question is "who then is the source the LDS gets it trinity doctrinal belief’s from? man? or another angel bringing another gospel?

Peace be with you

 

[Todd520]

]

In other words, the LDS trinity doctrine comes from another source other than the Trinity doctrine taught and revealed by Jesus. The question is "who then is the source the LDS gets it trinity doctrinal belief’s from? man? or another angel bringing another gospel?

Peace be with you

No, no, no,
The LDS trinity doctrine comes from a different interpretation of the same Holy Scripture used by the Catholics to forumulate their trinity doctrine.