An Observation

[Randy_Carson]

Whew, we’re heading into another huge topic. The short answer to all of what you are asking is that the circumcision of the babies was part of the Abrahamic Covenant and we are now in the Covenant of Grace. Here’s an excellent article that tells us what we need to know about all this:
carm.org/christianity/baptism/baptism-necessary-salvation

I would encourage anyone who really wants to understand this, to pull out your Bibles and dig deep!

Wow.

Actually pull our dusty Bibles off the shelf and read them? On our own? Without any guidance from Father to help us? Isn’t that against Catholic teaching or something?

Out.

 

[cecilia97]

Whew, we’re heading into another huge topic. The short answer to all of what you are asking is that the circumcision of the babies was part of the Abrahamic Covenant and we are now in the Covenant of Grace. Here’s an excellent article that tells us what we need to know about all this:
carm.org/christianity/baptism/baptism-necessary-salvation

I would encourage anyone who really wants to understand this, to pull out your Bibles and dig deep!

Fair Lady,

I think it might not be clear that we do understand what you’re talking about, but we disagree. Many of us Catholics are intimately familiar with the scriptures, study them daily, and belong to the Church that decided which writings would even become part of the scriptures.

carm.org is a virulently anti-Catholic organization. There are many good Christians there, but the philosophy that Matt Slick is selling is, in fact, not biblical.

 

[MarysGirls]

First, I think the point needs to be made that Mary is NOT the mother of God. When we name Him as God, we are always cognizant of the fact that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Having said that, we know from scripture that Mary was the mother of Jesus. She is the one who bore Him in His humanity. Jesus had submit to the lowering of Himself in order to come into Mary’s womb for “a little while” as it says in Hebrews 2:7.

Mary doesn’t share any of the divinity of God. She was special in that she became the vessel to bear the human form of Jesus and she was His earthly mother. But Mary needed Him as a Saviour just like you and me.

Simply put, God doesn’t share His glory with anyone - not the angels and not humanity. He is Supreme over all.

Isaiah 42:8 “I am Jehovah, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images.”

Isaiah 48:11 “For My own sake, for My own sake, I will do it; For how should My name be profaned? And I will not give My glory to another.”

Revelation 5:13 "And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!”

Happy New Year, Fair Lady!
First I would like to say that it sounds like you’re not afraid of thinking and researching things for yourself, instead of just believing whatever is told to you. This is good and I respect your opinion. However, I believe your conclusions to be false, and therefore would like to do my humble best in presenting to you what I firmly believe to be true.

You say that Mary is not the Mother of GOD, because GOD is Father, Son and Holy Spirit and Mary simply gave birth to JESUS. But is it not true that JESUS has 2 natures? Human and Divine? For Mary to simply give birth to part of Christ would mean that the JESUS CHRIST to whom all Christianity has been glorifying for the salvation of their souls was not GOD at all. Only human. Because His GOD-half, so to speak, didn’t come to earth. I thank the LORD that this is not true! Also, in John 10:38, JESUS says that the Father is in Him, and He is in the Father. Therefore, for Mary to give birth to the Son, she must have given birth to GOD. This doesn’t mean she created Him. This doesn’t mean that GOD didn’t exist before being born. It simply means that JESUS, the GOD-man, humbled Himself and was born of the Virgin Mary, in order that He would become the salvation of poor sinners.

You are right when you say that Mary needed a Savior and that she didn’t share in Christ’s Divinity. That is the whole beauty of it! Catholics do not claim that Mary is some sort of goddess. She would be quite sad if we did. But Mary is “full of grace”, “most blessed of all women”, “mother of my LORD”. (Lk. 1:28, Lk. 1:42, Lk. 1:43) We honor her as such. We do not give her the glory that belongs to GOD alone.

Pax!
Nicole

 

[Cristian_B]

I asked because your posts suggest that you have embraced “soul sleep” - a false doctrine taught by Jehovah’s Witnesses and other sects.

If you are embarassed by your membership in some other organization, and you don’t want to tell us the name of it, I certainly understand.

Yes, I believe that we are not judged right after we die. And no, I’m not part of Jehovah’s Witnesses. They are not Christians, so to speak and in my religion, it says “Christian”.

Please, tell me first why you believe that we go to heaven/hell right after we die. It’s quite late in Spain, and I’ll give you my answers tomorrow.

 

[dcrowmik]

Let’s all not get off topic and into a sola scriptura discussion – start another discussion for that. Here are some references to read from the Catholic viewpoint.

Anyway, Fair Lady, let’s get back to your original discussion: that is, “undo” focus on Mary and, by extension, prohibition of asking for intercession from anyone in Heaven other than God (because you have already shown it’s OK to ask for intercessory prayer from people here on Earth).

Again, you’ve talked about “realm” a couple times and how dying causes one to cross this realm to another, and that once that happens we can no longer ask ANYONE who may be in the other realm for their intercessory prayer – Mary, the saints or even the angels (you even said you would NOT pray to your Guardian Angel).

You never have answered my question on where that instruction can be found in scripture nor have you provided any scriptural references that even provide that “sense of scripture” in supporting your claim. I really am interested in how you can claim that because I can’t find it anywhere.

Thanks, Fair Lady, for challenging us and helping us to continue to think about our Catholic faith. I’m hopefully awaiting your answer.

Fair Lady, I’m getting a little insecure because the last two times you have skipped answering me (boo, hoo). What are your answers to the quoted text above? I really and truly have not found anything like that in the Bible.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Yes, I believe that we are not judged right after we die. And no, I’m not part of Jehovah’s Witnesses. They are not Christians, so to speak and in my religion, it says “Christian”.

Please, tell me first why you believe that we go to heaven/hell right after we die. It’s quite late in Spain, and I’ll give you my answers tomorrow.

You made the assertion…you defend it.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Perhaps I have been misunderstood…

I’m saying that before the resurrection Jesus was a normal human with a lot of faith, love and hope. Now He has all power on and Earth and in Heaven, but before that, he was simply a perfect saint…physically. He has divine character, thus He is God. But He was in a human body, thus He didn’t have Superman powers. I’m not telling you He is not God, but that before the resurrection He had no “powers”.

I would really like to discuss this with you but I think it’s taking this thread off-topic (see the OP). But your ideas are novel and I hope you begin a thread that addresses them.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Fair Lady,

tick tock…tick tock…tick tock…tick tock…

Why are you ignoring me? Could it be that you can’t answer my questions? It’s beginning to seem that way. You answer other people but not me. Why is that??

I’m not going away. I am waiting.

tick tock…tick tock…tick tock…tick tock…

 

[Padrej]

Whew, we’re heading into another huge topic. The short answer to all of what you are asking is that the circumcision of the babies was part of the Abrahamic Covenant and we are now in the Covenant of Grace. Here’s an excellent article that tells us what we need to know about all this:
carm.org/christianity/baptism/baptism-necessary-salvation

I would encourage anyone who really wants to understand this, to pull out your Bibles and dig deep!

Good Greif! I have not heard the “Abraham covenant” argument since I read the complete works of Menno Simon the founder of the Mennonite and Amish sects. The arguments are old and weak at best. If you are in a “covenant of Grace” by your argument you should be able to Baptize an infant. Jesus came not to change the Law but to fulfill it, or do you overlook that part of your Bible?
The water of Baptism is an outward sign of the inner work, if done on your behalf, you re-affirm those vows later when able to answer. If the water had any saving property in and of itself I would be spraying the road down in front of my church at every car that went by.

 

[wisdomseeker]

First, I think the point needs to be made that Mary is NOT the mother of God. When we name Him as God, we are always cognizant of the fact that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Having said that, we know from scripture that Mary was the mother of Jesus. She is the one who bore Him in His humanity. Jesus had submit to the lowering of Himself in order to come into Mary’s womb for “a little while” as it says in Hebrews 2:7.

Mary doesn’t share any of the divinity of God. She was special in that she became the vessel to bear the human form of Jesus and she was His earthly mother. But Mary needed Him as a Saviour just like you and me.

Simply put, God doesn’t share His glory with anyone - not the angels and not humanity. He is Supreme over all.

Isaiah 42:8 "I am Jehovah, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images."

Isaiah 48:11 "For My own sake, for My own sake, I will do it; For how should My name be profaned? And I will not give My glory to another."

Revelation 5:13 "And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: "Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!"

Oh dear. how can i make you understand. by these Scriptures, do you think God was talking about Holy Mother of God and His Saints? what is He talking about here? think, just think.

 

[Kay_Cee]

Fair Lady,

tick tock…tick tock…tick tock…tick tock…

Why are you ignoring me? Could it be that you can’t answer my questions? It’s beginning to seem that way. You answer other people but not me. Why is that??

I’m not going away. I am waiting.

tick tock…tick tock…tick tock…tick tock…

Welcome to the club. I too am being ignored.

I have a huge problem with someone telling me she doesn’t believe certain things about Mary because she can’t find them in scripture, but who then turns around and tells me many things not found in scripture yet expects me to believe them.

I have a huge problem with someone expecting me to base ALL my beliefs on scripture but who then also expects me to believe several things she tells me which are not in scripture–including the belief that I should base all my beliefs on scripture.

Fair Lady, I am still waiting. In posts 53, 61, 67, 78, and 83 you were asked to provide scripture to back up things you ask us to believe. Either provide the scripture or stop claiming everything we believe must be found in scripture. THIS IS NOW MY FOURTH REQUEST.

What do you think it says to people reading this thread that you are telling me two completely contradictory things? The fact that you have told us to believe several things nowhere found in scripture makes it blatantly *obvious *that you yourself believe several things nowhere found in scripture!!!

I suspect that from the time you were old enough to remember, people you have loved, respected, and trusted have told you all your beliefs should be found in the Bible. I also suspect that until now nobody has challenged that belief with you. But it should be obvious by now that that belief is self-contradictory since it is nowhere to be found in the Bible. Fair Lady, is God the author of contradiction? Would He ask us to believe something contradictory?

 

[Fair_Lady]

Fair Lady,

tick tock…tick tock…tick tock…tick tock…

Why are you ignoring me? Could it be that you can’t answer my questions? It’s beginning to seem that way. You answer other people but not me. Why is that??

I’m not going away. I am waiting.

tick tock…tick tock…tick tock…tick tock…

LittlleSoldier and Kay Cee,

Goodness, I haven’t been ignoring you. I’ve just tried to answer as best I could on a general level because to answer each miniscule question would take me a coon’s age.

[bold]“16All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” 2 Timothy 3:16 & 17[/bold]

God speaks to us through His scriptures. That is His provision for us to get to know Him and it how He revealed Himself to us. As 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us, all scripture is given to us by the inspiration of God (some versions say it is “God breathed”). Then it goes on to tell us that scripture is profitable for “doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. This is followed by a very important statement in verse 17 – …”that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” In other words, the way God has revealed Himself and His instructions to us in scripture are sufficient for the people of God, so they may be complete. There is nothing of significance in spiritual matters that should be sought after outside of scripture. As far as books go, there is no other source that we can go to outside of scripture that is absolutely reliable for truth. That is because it is only the Bible that was written by the inspiration of God.

At times we will be faced with traditions of men and we will have to discern whether or not it is in agreement with God’s word or not. If it is not, we can know that what God’s word says about that situation, even if only in principle, is sufficient for us. Even in biblical times, Jesus was confronted by the Pharisees and scribes on a matter of tradition, to which Jesus flatly told them in Matthew 15:3, ““Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?” So there we have it, a clear and concise instruction to heed God’s word over man’s tradition.

Psalm 119:104 & 105 is how I see God’s word and strive to apply it to the way I live my life and to grow in Christ Jesus:

“ Through Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way. Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.

I am so thankful to God that He has given us a book to refer to when human “wisdom” is so utterly insufficient.

 

[fbl9]

LittlleSoldier and Kay Cee,

Goodness, I haven’t been ignoring you. I’ve just tried to answer as best I could on a general level because to answer each miniscule question would take me a coon’s age.

[bold]“16All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” 2 Timothy 3:16 & 17[/bold]

there are no words here that restrict scripture as the only source .In fact read verse 10 and St.Paul clearly says my doctrine,which could not be found in scripture yet.

God speaks to us through His scriptures. That is His provision for us to get to know Him and it how He revealed Himself to us. As 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us, all scripture is given to us by the inspiration of God (some versions say it is “God breathed”). Then it goes on to tell us that scripture is profitable for “doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. This is followed by a very important statement in verse 17 – …”that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” In other words, the way God has revealed Himself and His instructions to us in scripture are sufficient for the people of God, so they may be complete. There is nothing of significance in spiritual matters that should be sought after outside of scripture. As far as books go, there is no other source that we can go to outside of scripture that is absolutely reliable for truth. That is because it is only the Bible that was written by the inspiration of God.

Yes but do not forget that God reveled Himself through His Son and not just written words.

At times we will be faced with traditions of men and we will have to discern whether or not it is in agreement with God’s word or not. If it is not, we can know that what God’s word says about that situation, even if only in principle, is sufficient for us. Even in biblical times, Jesus was confronted by the Pharisees and scribes on a matter of tradition, to which Jesus flatly told them in Matthew 15:3, ““Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?” So there we have it, a clear and concise instruction to heed God’s word over man’s tradition.

and if tradition comes from the body of Christ it is not of man but of Christ.

Psalm 119:104 & 105 is how I see God’s word and strive to apply it to the way I live my life and to grow in Christ Jesus:

“ Through Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way. Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.

Christ is the word made flesh He is my light,through His body the Church. did not Christ say you are the light of the world to His disciple’s.

I am so thankful to God that He has given us a book to refer to when human “wisdom” is so utterly insufficient.

But i am even more grateful He gave me His body the Church to help my weak mind understand His word truthfully.

 

[Padrej]

First, I think the point needs to be made that Mary is NOT the mother of God. When we name Him as God, we are always cognizant of the fact that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Having said that, we know from scripture that Mary was the mother of Jesus. She is the one who bore Him in His humanity. Jesus had submit to the lowering of Himself in order to come into Mary’s womb for “a little while” as it says in Hebrews 2:7.

Mary doesn’t share any of the divinity of God. She was special in that she became the vessel to bear the human form of Jesus and she was His earthly mother. But Mary needed Him as a Saviour just like you and me.

Simply put, God doesn’t share His glory with anyone - not the angels and not humanity. He is Supreme over all.

Isaiah 42:8 “I am Jehovah, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images.”

Isaiah 48:11 “For My own sake, for My own sake, I will do it; For how should My name be profaned? And I will not give My glory to another.”

Revelation 5:13 "And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!”

Darn and I thought all this time God’s name was “Jealous” Exodus 34: 14
“for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God”

I take it you do not Believe the words of Jesus when he said “I and the father are ONE” John 10:30 Maybe John 14: “10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.” Or John 1: 1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” So Jesus being the Word here being God, and being born of Mary, would it not stand to reason that she is is earthly mother??? Hence “Mother of God.” At least minimally look at it from that perspective. That is where the expression “Mother of God” came from. It has nothing to do with Mary having divinity.

I have yet to find a Catholic doctrine that says that Mary had any form of divinity so where do you get that erroneous notion? I don’t think anyone on this thread disagrees with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

 

[wisdomseeker]

LittlleSoldier and Kay Cee,

Goodness, I haven’t been ignoring you. I’ve just tried to answer as best I could on a general level because to answer each miniscule question would take me a coon’s age.

[bold]“16All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” 2 Timothy 3:16 & 17[/bold]

God speaks to us through His scriptures. That is His provision for us to get to know Him and it how He revealed Himself to us. As 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us, all scripture is given to us by the inspiration of God (some versions say it is “God breathed”). Then it goes on to tell us that scripture is profitable for “doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. This is followed by a very important statement in verse 17 – …”that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” In other words, the way God has revealed Himself and His instructions to us in scripture are sufficient for the people of God, so they may be complete. There is nothing of significance in spiritual matters that should be sought after outside of scripture. As far as books go, there is no other source that we can go to outside of scripture that is absolutely reliable for truth. That is because it is only the Bible that was written by the inspiration of God.

At times we will be faced with traditions of men and we will have to discern whether or not it is in agreement with God’s word or not. If it is not, we can know that what God’s word says about that situation, even if only in principle, is sufficient for us. Even in biblical times, Jesus was confronted by the Pharisees and scribes on a matter of tradition, to which Jesus flatly told them in Matthew 15:3, ““Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?” So there we have it, a clear and concise instruction to heed God’s word over man’s tradition.

Psalm 119:104 & 105 is how I see God’s word and strive to apply it to the way I live my life and to grow in Christ Jesus:

“ Through Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way. Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.
**
I am so thankful to God that He has given us a book to refer to when human “wisdom” is so utterly insufficient.**

do you think God inspired the CC to compile the Bible, so you could use the Book against the Church He inspired?

If Scriptures is all one needs, why do you think Jesus summoned a few men and instructed them to go out and teach all He tought them? dont you think Jesus could have saved many lives just by telling one person to just write the Book?

you can quote Scriptures all day long but you dont know what they mean, unless somebody teaches you.

Peace

 

[LittleSoldier]

LittlleSoldier and Kay Cee,

Goodness, I haven’t been ignoring you. I’ve just tried to answer as best I could on a general level because to answer each miniscule question would take me a coon’s age.

[bold]“16All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” 2 Timothy 3:16 & 17[/bold]

God speaks to us through His scriptures. That is His provision for us to get to know Him and it how He revealed Himself to us. As 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us, all scripture is given to us by the inspiration of God (some versions say it is “God breathed”). Then it goes on to tell us that scripture is profitable for “doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. This is followed by a very important statement in verse 17 – …”that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” In other words, the way God has revealed Himself and His instructions to us in scripture are sufficient for the people of God, so they may be complete. There is nothing of significance in spiritual matters that should be sought after outside of scripture. As far as books go, there is no other source that we can go to outside of scripture that is absolutely reliable for truth. That is because it is only the Bible that was written by the inspiration of God.

At times we will be faced with traditions of men and we will have to discern whether or not it is in agreement with God’s word or not. If it is not, we can know that what God’s word says about that situation, even if only in principle, is sufficient for us. Even in biblical times, Jesus was confronted by the Pharisees and scribes on a matter of tradition, to which Jesus flatly told them in Matthew 15:3, ““Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?” So there we have it, a clear and concise instruction to heed God’s word over man’s tradition.

Psalm 119:104 & 105 is how I see God’s word and strive to apply it to the way I live my life and to grow in Christ Jesus:

“ Through Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way. Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.

I am so thankful to God that He has given us a book to refer to when human “wisdom” is so utterly insufficient.

Fair Lady, you still have not answered my questions!! Why don’t you answer my questions? You say you aren’t ignoring me but you certainly are. Here are my questions, once again:

(1) Where does it state in the Bible “that had Mary died ahead of Him, He would not have prayed to her because He taught us to pray to His father?”

Please cite book, chapter, and verse.

(2) Where does it state in the Bible that “Had He wanted us to pray to Mary, I’m sure He would have told us?”

Please cite book, chapter, and verse.

(3) Why do you believe that you have the right to assume what Jesus would do? You are sure. You’re not merely offering it as a possibility; you are sure!! You are awfully sure of some things that aren’t in the Bible yet you say that we shouldn’t pray to saints because it isn’t in the Bible. Why are you allowed to believe what is not in the Bible, but Catholics aren’t??

(4) Why do you have the right to add to Scripture? You have done this by assuming what Jesus would do in certain situations. You state “Had He wanted us to pray to Mary, I am sure He would have told us.” [emphasis mine] This is adding to Scripture. According to the website you offered re sola scriptura you aren’t allowed to do so. Yet you do!! You put words in Jesus’ mouth!! Where does your authority to do things like this come from?

Here are a few added questions from your current post to Kay Cee and myself:

(4) Where in the Bible does it state that the books of Timothy are scripture?

Please cite book, chapter, and verse.

(5) Where in the Bible does it state “There is nothing of significance in spiritual matters that should be sought after outside of Scripture?”

Please cite book, chapter, and verse.

(5) Where in the Bible does it state “As far as books go, there is no other source that we can go to outside of Scripture that is absolutely reliable for truth?”

Please cite book, chapter, and verse.

(7) Where do you find the authority to discern whether man’s tradition is in agreement with God’s word or not? What if it is tradition that is not covered in Scripture?

Please cite book, chapter, and verse.

You shouldn’t have any problems answering these questions. Please don’t side-step again. You do that an awful lot and it’s beginning to appear that you just can’t answer these questions. I’m sorry, but frankly I am very tired and I don’t like being ignored.

Can you answer these questions?

There is one more item I feel I should point out. I know that you’re Canadian so perhaps you aren’t aware of this but the term “coon” is a derogatory reference to blacks. It’s against forum rules to use such terms. I thought you should know this.

---

 

[wisdomseeker]

Fair Lady, you still have not answered my questions!! Why don’t you answer my questions? You say you aren’t ignoring me but you certainly are. Here are my questions, once again:

(1) Where does it state in the Bible “that had Mary died ahead of Him, He would not have prayed to her because He taught us to pray to His father?”

Please cite book, chapter, and verse.

(2) Where does it state in the Bible that “Had He wanted us to pray to Mary, I’m sure He would have told us?”

Please cite book, chapter, and verse.

(3) Why do you believe that you have the right to assume what Jesus would do? You are sure. You’re not merely offering it as a possibility; you are sure!! You are awfully sure of some things that aren’t in the Bible yet you say that we shouldn’t pray to saints because it isn’t in the Bible. Why are you allowed to believe what is not in the Bible, but Catholics aren’t??

(4) Why do you have the right to add to Scripture? You have done this by assuming what Jesus would do in certain situations. You state “Had He wanted us to pray to Mary, I am sure He would have told us.” [emphasis mine] This is adding to Scripture. According to the website you offered re sola scriptura you aren’t allowed to do so. Yet you do!! You put words in Jesus’ mouth!! Where does your authority to do things like this come from?

Here are a few added questions from your current post to Kay Cee and myself:

(4) Where in the Bible does it state that the books of Timothy are scripture?

Please cite book, chapter, and verse.

(5) Where in the Bible does it state “There is nothing of significance in spiritual matters that should be sought after outside of Scripture?”

Please cite book, chapter, and verse.

(5) Where in the Bible does it state “As far as books go, there is no other source that we can go to outside of Scripture that is absolutely reliable for truth?”

Please cite book, chapter, and verse.

(7) Where do you find the authority to discern whether man’s tradition is in agreement with God’s word or not? What if it is tradition that is not covered in Scripture?

Please cite book, chapter, and verse.

You shouldn’t have any problems answering these questions. Please don’t side-step again. You do that an awful lot and it’s beginning to appear that you just can’t answer these questions. I’m sorry, but frankly I am very tired and I don’t like being ignored.

Can you answer these questions?

There is one more item I feel I should point out. I know that you’re Canadian so perhaps you aren’t aware of this but the term “coon” is a derogatory reference to blacks. It’s against forum rules to use such terms. I thought you should know this.

---

One thing i realized about Protestants. Because they have the Bible they think they know everything. they believe they got it right.

 

[Kay_Cee]

Fair Lady, there are so many problems with using 2 Tim 3:16-17 to “prove” scripture is sufficient, that I scarcely know where to begin.

1. There is the glaring problem of the canon. One cannot even go to 2 Timothy without first knowing it is scripture. But nowhere does the Bible tell us Paul’s letters to Timothy are scripture. For this, one must go to a source *outside *the Bible, as you did yourself did when you said you base your belief in the canon on faith.
2. It is *circular reasoning. *I could write that this post is scripture, but that wouldn’t make it so. The Koran says it’s the Word of God. Does that statement in the Koran make it so?
3. If you read up a couple verses from 2 Tim 3:16, you will see this: “But you, remain faithful to what you have learned and believed, because you know from whom you have learned it.” (verse 14) In other words, the *context *is what Timothy has already learned, which would be the Old Testament scripture.
4. Paul could not have possibly had in mind the Book of Revelation or any other scripture which had yet to be penned.
5. The verse in question nowhere says scripture is sufficient. The words used to describe scripture are “inspired,” and “useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness.” It does not describe scripture as sufficient, nor does the passage say *only *scripture is good for these things.
6. In no way does this fulfill my request since you have not answered my questions from scripture. In posts 53, 61, 67, 78, and 83 you were asked to provide scripture to back up things you ask us to believe. (LittleSoldier has provided some examples in her post.) Since you claim all our beliefs are to be based on scripture, surely you must have based those beliefs you posted on scripture. So it should therefore be a piece of cake for you to tell us where those ideas are in scripture. So why do you keep side-stepping instead of telling us? Even if you could prove all our beliefs must come from scripture (and you haven’t proved that at all), it still doesn’t tell us where those beliefs of yours are found in scripture!!!

Either provide the scripture or stop claiming everything we believe must be found in scripture. THIS IS NOW MY FIFTH REQUEST.

 

[Fair_Lady]

Good Greif! I have not heard the “Abraham covenant” argument since I read the complete works of Menno Simon the founder of the Mennonite and Amish sects. The arguments are old and weak at best. If you are in a “covenant of Grace” by your argument you should be able to Baptize an infant. Jesus came not to change the Law but to fulfill it, or do you overlook that part of your Bible?
The water of Baptism is an outward sign of the inner work, if done on your behalf, you re-affirm those vows later when able to answer. If the water had any saving property in and of itself I would be spraying the road down in front of my church at every car that went by.

I’d have to agree that water baptism is an woutward sign of the inner work. That inner work is the work of the Holy Spirit on one’s life once we have repented and come to believe in the Lord Jesus as our Saviour. But that’s another topic and I’d like to stick with the original topic at hand. I’d also have to agree that the water has absolutely no saving power, but your word picture of spraying the road down did produce a bit of a chuckle.

 

[LittleSoldier]

One thing i realized about Protestants. Because they have the Bible they think they know everything. they believe they got it right.

And if she has it right, why doesn’t she use Scripture to show me why it is right?? If she’s right, it should be right there in Scripture!! It should be easy to back up her claims but she doesn’t do it.