Analysis: Why 'Pachamama' took a dip

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FrancisFan43 . . . .
Faithful Catholics have read in the bible the last time the clergy let idols in the temple, God left Israel and allowed them to be captured back into slavery. No one wants that.
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That is an excellent point.

Those events were real history.

But those events MAY also someday be a prefigurement to what really occurrs in fulfillment too!

I think that is what you are reminding us of here. Is that correct?
 
1Lord1Faith . . . .
In order for something to be an idol it has to be worshipped.
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But you can kinda see how people might come to such a conclusion. Right?

See between 30 and 45 seconds here . . .
 
1Lord1Faith said:
So you believe the statues are idols. That means that you don’t believe Pope Francis.
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False dichotomy.
The statues are pagan idols. The Pope calls them “pachamama” and that itself is a reference to a pagan deity.

One can, as I have, conclude they were pagan statues because of what the Pope said about them combined with the ceremony that went with them.
 
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vz71 said:
The statues are pagan idols. The Pope calls them “pachamama” and that itself is a reference to a pagan deity.
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Not necessarily. The word pachamama is fairly ubiquitous. It’s colloquial usage is prevalent.

To me the usage of the word seems like the usage of the word yoga. You probably know how contentious discussions about yoga can be here on CAF.
 
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1Lord1Faith said:
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commenter:
At 70, barely able to handle Facebook
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You don’t seem to have believed what Pope Francis said about the statues. So why should I believe what you say?
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Pope Francis provided some context. I provided a different context. You don’t have to reject the one in order to accept the other.
 
There is a tone froim the Vatican far too often in recent years of “if you don’t get “it” or understand what we said or why we did something, its because you are just an ignorant rube and no amount of explanation will change that.”

Actually, it is because IMO, no amount of explanation with justify far too many things.
 
One does not have to worship the idols to assert they had no place here. I can place a loaded gun on the altar, but it doesn’t suddenly become “okay” just because no one fired it. And frankly, the gravity of pagan idols is much higher than a firearm in this context.
 
Dr_Meinheimer said:
There is a tone froim the Vatican far too often in recent years of “if you don’t get “it” or understand what we said or why we did something, its because you are just an ignorant rube and no amount of explanation will change that.”
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Either that, or they believe it’s that you’re so darn “rigid,” that no amount of explanation will change you.
 
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Mark121359 said:
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Dr_Meinheimer:
There is a tone froim the Vatican far too often in recent years of “if you don’t get “it” or understand what we said or why we did something, its because you are just an ignorant rube and no amount of explanation will change that.”
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Either that, or they believe it’s that you’re so darn “rigid,” that no amount of explanation will change you.
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Then that would be judgment which is unbefitting for a Church leader.
 
I don’t know any real life Catholics who have even heard of this whole hubbub.
 
In the order of Grace likewise the head and the members are born of the same mother. If a member of the mystical body of Christ, that is, one of the predestinate, were born of a mother other than Mary who gave birth to the head, he would not be one of the predestinate, nor a member of Jesus Christ, but a monster in the order of grace.
Saint Louis de Montfort-Treatise on true devotion to the Blessed Mother part one 2-32
 
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Feanor2 . . . .
I don’t know any real life Catholics who have even heard of this whole hubbub.
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But what about my NON-Catholic Bible Christian friends that I have been sharing the faith with?

Some of them for years.

THEY know all about this Pachamama debacle.

Fundamentalists. Evangelicals. Traditional Protestants.

The pagan idols in the Vatican scandal just makes helping them over obstacles of anti-Catholic objections all the more difficult.

Now they look at me (proverbially) and say this just reenforces some of their worst stereotypes about the Catholic Church.

Having (or allowing) people prostate themselves to pagan idols at the Vatican was a sinful mistake in my opinion.
 
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I seriously doubt that many Protestants have heard of this issue when so few Catholics know about it.

I trust the Pope and I take guidance from him.
 
Feanor2 . . .
I seriously doubt that many Protestants have heard of this issue when so few Catholics know about it.
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That’s fine for you to “doubt” if you want.

But I am the guy who sits down with these people at the kitchen table.

THESE guys will have heard of it, and I WILL hear about it. As I have in the past. I know these people.

But again. You are free to think whatever you want here.
 
(name removed by moderator) . . .
Ah, the movers and the shakers.
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It is irrelevant how much “moving and shaking” you think they will or won’t do. (This isn’t mere politics. It is their faith life.)

Outside of the Church they don’t have Jesus in the Eucharist (they have separated themselves from communing with Jesus, body, blood, soul, and divinity), they do not have the graces of the Confessional, and they do not have the Mass in the same way as if they were personally participating.

And my heart is concerned for their lack.

Pagan idols in the Vatican puts up yet one more obstacle in their way to the fullness of grace and Truth that the Church has to offer.
 
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(name removed by moderator) . . .
Everything is ‘mere politics’, faith included.
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That’s what I assumed you would think.

As for me? I disagree.
 
If no one else, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Though Cathoholic was referring to Non Catholic Christian friends who criticize the Catholic Church for abuses.
 
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