ancestors of Mary

[Archbishop_10-K]

cornerstone:

do you know why latin is the language of the catholic church?

Originally, the Church established Latin as the official language because at the time, most people knew Latin.

Nowadays, Latin is the official language because the meanings do not change and simply because it is beautiful. It’s the same reason why Jews use a Hebrew liturgy. You wouldn’t say that Jews is Jesus’ time were kept in the dark because they did stuff in Hebrew (a dead language by the time), would you?

Anyway, I don’t see why people would be kept in the dark because the Mass was done in Latin. I doubt priests in the Middle Ages knew enough Latin to do a full sermon in the language. And you’re taught what the parts of the Mass mean. I can go to a Latin Mass today and understand everything that’s being said, even though I can’t speak Latin.

 

[cornerstone]

ralphinal:

By the way, no Catholic has ever prayed for a dead person. Our God is the God of the living, not the dead (Matthew 12:26-27)

This comes from Catholic encyclopedia
Prayers for the Dead

This subject will be treated under the following three heads:
I. General Statement and Proof of Catholic Doctrine;
II. Questions of Detail;
III. Practice in the British and Irish Churches.

I. GENERAL STATEMENT AND PROOF

Catholic teaching regarding prayers for the dead is bound up inseparably with the doctrine of purgatory and the more general doctrine of the communion of the saints, which is an article of the Apostle’s Creed. The definition of the Council of Trent (Sess. XXV), “that purgatory exists, and that the souls detained therein are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but especially by the acceptable sacrifice of the altar”, is merely a restatement in brief of the traditional teaching which had already been embodied in more than one authoritative formula – as in the creed prescribed for converted Waldenses by Innocent III in 1210 (Denzinger, Enchiridion, n. 3 73) and more fully in the profession of faith accepted for the Greeks by Michael Palaeologus at the Second Ecumenical Council of Florence in 1439: “[We define] likewise, that if the truly penitent die in the love of God, before they have made satisfaction by worthy fruits of penance for their sins of commission and omission, their souls are purified by purgatorial pains after death; and that for relief from these pains they are benefitted by the suffrages of the faithful in this life, that is, by Masses, prayers, and almsgiving, and by the other offices of piety usually performed by the faithful for one another according to the practice [instituta] of the Church” (ibid., n. 588). Hence, under “suffrages” for the dead, which are defined to be legitimate and efficacious, are included not only formal supplications, but every kind of pious work that may be offered for the spiritual benefit of others, and it is in this comprehensive sense that we speak of prayers in the present article. As is clear from this general statement, the Church does not recognize the limitation upon which even modern Protestants often insist, that prayers for the dead, while legitimate and commendable as a private practice, are to be excluded from her public offices. The most efficacious of all prayers, in Catholic teaching, is the essentially public office, the Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[elgom]

well Jesus did not share your point of view there when he was tempted by the devil. he quoted Scripture.
now going back to where the Holy Spirit is. the Holy Spirit is on the church. the body of Christ. the believers. but the head of the church is Jesus. not the pope
You know its’s interesting that you say Jesus quoted scripture, and that is correct, but the new testament didn’t exist at that time. And yet you refer to the New Testament as scripture and act as if Jesus quoted from it.

The New Testament hadn’t even been written yet “by the Church”.

 

[Vitus]

cornerstone:

latin was not a language on the Bible. latin was not the language of the apostles. latin was already a dead language, why use it on the mass.

Ignorance is bliss, eh JesusTheSavior? I mean cornerstone, although your writing styles are eerily similar. But I digress.

So if Latin was not a language “on the Bible”, what exactly was? If you are such a linguistic purist, please recite to us a verse from that Bible you worship in the language the Apostles spoke. I’ll even give you a hint (since I doubt you know what language it was), it’s a dead language as well. Then you can tell us which became a dead language first.

As for challenging what Catholics believe, that is laughable. Catholics understand their faith, something you obviously do not. No knowledgeble Catholic is afraid of the truth because they already have it. Close minded, hard hearted people who come around thowing Jack Chick-isms around (like JesusIsTheWay has done) aren’t to be feared, they are to be shown pity and prayed for.

 

[kpnuts2k]

T.A.Stobie:

No, her parents (Joachim & Ann) were not granted that grace.

According to many mystics. St. Joachim & St. Ann led very holy lives.

where in the bible does it state this?
i don’t rate any other books or writings apart from the bible

but if you know where it says that mary was sinless please post back

 

[cornerstone]

elgom:

You know its’s interesting that you say Jesus quoted scripture, and that is correct, but the new testament didn’t exist at that time. And yet you refer to the New Testament as scripture and act as if Jesus quoted from it.
The New Testament hadn’t even been written yet “by the Church”.

Jesus did not quote from the new testament. the point you missed and what i was trying to say was that even Jesus used it. so maybe it is important

 

[AmandaPS]

cornerstone:

hold on here… where in the Bible says that Mary was sinless?. Please show me it in the Bible.

καὶ ει’σελθὼν ο’ αγγελος πρὸς αυτὴν εiπε· χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη· ὁ Κύριος μετὰ σοῦ· εὐλογημένη σὺ ἐν γυναιξίν.

 

[kpnuts2k]

since i started thuis debate id beter sort u guys out

if you belive that mary was without sin show us where it said that is the bible also while your there show us where it says that she stayed a virgin and where it says that she didnt die but assended into heaven

 

[cornerstone]

καὶ ει’σελθὼν ο’ αγγελος πρὸς αυτὴν εiπε· χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη· ὁ Κύριος μετὰ σοῦ· εὐλογημένη σὺ ἐν γυναιξίν.

i do not read greek but i can tell you forgot to mention book chapter and verse. this is from the Bible right?

 

[Brian]

Show me in the Bible where it says that Mary sinned. The burden of proof is on you and cornerstone, not us.

 

[kpnuts2k]

it says dat she was a godly wman and thats all their for she sinned

 

[St_Veronica]

kpnuts2k:

it says dat she was a godly wman and thats all their for she sinned

Please provide the scripture that states Mary was a sinner.

Also I’m still waiting on that scripture from you about all sin being equal

SV

 

[kpnuts2k]

it doesnt say that she was a sinner but it doesnt say that moses was a sinnder but he was

if it doesnt say that she wasnt a sinner it means that was

 

[St_Veronica]

kpnuts2k:

it doesnt say that she was a sinner but it doesnt say that moses was a sinnder but he was

if it doesnt say that she wasnt a sinner it means that was

Ok so you don’t take the Bible literally then? You do agree that there must be an interpertation taken out of what the Bible says.

Hmmm so how do you decide who has the right interpertation?

SV

 

[Brian]

Please provide us with scripture references that indicate the sinful nature of Mary. Thanks.

 

[Vitus]

kpnuts2k:

but it doesnt say that moses was a sinnder but he was

Are you so sure about that?

 

[cornerstone]

Vitus:

So if Latin was not a language “on the Bible”, what exactly was? If you are such a linguistic purist, please recite to us a verse from that Bible you worship in the language the Apostles spoke. I’ll even give you a hint (since I doubt you know what language it was), it’s a dead language as well. Then you can tell us which became a dead language first.

As for challenging what Catholics believe, that is laughable. Catholics understand their faith, something you obviously do not. No knowledgeble Catholic is afraid of the truth because they already have it. Close minded, hard hearted people who come around thowing Jack Chick-isms around (like JesusIsTheWay has done) aren’t to be feared, they are to be shown pity and prayed for.

if instead of attacking people you would take time to read what people post here this would not be laughable.
the languages of the Bible are Hebrew and Aramaic (old testament). Greek and a little Aramaic (new testament)
no latin.
again if you dont trust me read the section “Bible translations” and look for the post from metal1633

 

[AmandaPS]

cornerstone:

if instead of attacking people you would take time to read what people post here this would not be laughable.
the languages of the Bible are Hebrew and Aramaic (old testament). Greek and a little Aramaic (new testament)
no latin.
again if you dont trust me read the section “Bible translations” and look for the post from metal1633

Do you believe that languages, over time change; what one word means a hundred years ago does not mean the same thing today. It’s prevalant in the English language. Latin on the other hand, does not change. That’s why the language of the King James is sometimes difficult for today’s reader to understand. Do you think saying, “I pray thee” back then means the same as what some may take it to mean today?

 

[Vitus]

cornerstone:

if instead of attacking people you would take time to read what people post here this would not be laughable.
the languages of the Bible are Hebrew and Aramaic (old testament). Greek and a little Aramaic (new testament)
no latin.
again if you dont trust me read the section “Bible translations” and look for the post from metal1633

Attacking? No. Defending from an attack? Absolutely.

I’ve read all your posts actually. They stand out like sore thumbs. And if I thought you were here for genuine reasons (such as sharing the faith or learning), things might be phrased differently.

Which books of the Old Testament were written in Aramaic btw?

And which died first, Aramaic or Latin?

 

[cornerstone]

Brian:

Show me in the Bible where it says that Mary sinned. The burden of proof is on you and cornerstone, not us.

Romans 3:20-23
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:** for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God**

your burden now