ancestors of Mary

[Vitus]

JesustheSavior:

to vitus:

Thank so much for bringing me in this vitus,sorry i am not cornerstone.
I hope you do know how to speak arameic and greek wich it was the language that the apostles spoke in those days.
If cornerstone,JesusistheWay and i are closed minded like you say, we are blessed that we are strong in our faith to not only be able to quote verses of the bible,wich we base our faith and the love that only Jesus can put in our hearts for those who are not.
You pity us?we pray for you,so the truth can be share in this forum and may the Lord God open your heart, to not condem but to be able to share your believe base on the truth of the Word of God nothing else.

I realized that you were different and also that cornerstone’s first language is probably not English.

I wish I did know how to speak those languages, but alas I do not. But just because a language is dead does not mean that is should be discounted and left unappreciated. Trying to infer that the Church is somehow evil because Masses are held in Latin is ridiculous, which is the point I was trying to make.

I was once like you. I was the Bible-worshipping, anti-Catholic, historically ignorant non-denominational, tongue-speaking Charismatic. This is probably why I have such a low tolerance of the ignorance I see in your posts. Ex-smokers are the worst don’t you know.

Anyone that quotes the liar and lunatic Jack Chick deserves nothing more than pity and nothing less than contempt.

 

[JesustheSavior]

Funky Cedars:

as i recall, and i didn’t recheck scripture so i could be wrong, but i thought moses was denied entry into the promised land cuz he killed the egyptian guard. wouldn’t that indicate Daddy considered it a sin, and him a sinner?
what do you take the title, ‘full of grace’, to mean or signify?
thanks for listening, love and peace, terry

If you read Numbers 14:22-23 The Lord God tells Moses that because of thye did not hear His voice they would not enter the promise land.Due to the disobedience of the people of Israel they wondered in the desert,and Gos told Moses he would see the land,but he will not entered.
It wasn’t because he kill the egyptian.

 

[Tom]

kpnuts2k:

show us where it says that she stayed a virgin

I’ll just take on this little piece of your questions. If you look at Matt and Luke, Chap one of each, (and please bear with me since I don’t have my Bible with me) you’ll find Matt treats the annunciation from the side of Joseph and Luke treats it from the side of Mary, you’ll see the significance later.
Mary is engaged to Joseph, she knows how children are conceived, since she refers to not “being with man”.
We need you to put yourself in the mind of Mary. In Luke the angel tells Mary she will conceive and bear a son.
Sounds simple doesn’t it? O.K. I’m engaged, I’ll marry Joe and we’ll have a son.
But Mary asks “how can this be?” What do you mean how can this be? You’re engaged; you’ll get married and guess how you’ll get pregnant!
But she asks “how can this be, since I know not man?” Very strange question from a woman who is engaged isn’t it?
The only possible answer to this questioning is if she did not intend to have sexual relations with Joseph. Now before you say no way! In that day it wasn’t unheard of. People took vows to God seriously. The only explanation of Mary asking “how can this be?” is she had taken a vow of celibacy. Now read the Scripture again. She didn’t understand how she could become pregnant since she didn’t intend to have sex.
Now the part in Matt where the angel comes to Joe. Why? Well for one who would believe she got pregnant from God? She had surely told him she intended to remain virgin so please, how can this be??? LOL A tall order even for this devout person.
Now you need to read OT, Numbers, I think it’s chapter 30, anyway read from 27 to 30, in it you’ll find out why she remained virgin even after the birth of Jesus (look for where it talks about a man accepting a woman into his house as his wife who is under a vow). She was accepted into the house of Joseph under a vow of virginity (remember the angel telling Joe?) Joseph knew and agreed with this vow. Once she has been accepted into the house under this vow the vow can never be broken. Remember Mary and Joseph were devout Jews; they would never have broken such a Jewish Law.

 

[JesustheSavior]

mrS4ntA:

like I said before,

Obviously, you hadn’t bothered to read it…

Anyway, I’ve found the exact verse, here they are:

*“I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the **traditions ***even as I have delivered them to you” (1 Cor. 11:2),

*“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the **traditions ***which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter” (2 Thess. 2:15).

*“Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and **not in accord with the tradition ***that you received from us” (2 Thess. 3:6).

Further,
“[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also” (2 Tim. 2:2).
(referring to the Apostolic Succession)

In Christ through Mary,
S4ntA.

and in wich of these verses mention purgatory?

 

[Vitus]

cornerstone:

No vitus, Jesus is God.

Yes, God incarnate. Which means he was also man. And as a man, if you are to take a literal reading of the scripture you quoted, means he was a sinner. ALL have sinned, remember? No where does it state all “but Jesus”, simply all. You can’t have it both ways.

And it is not impossible to lead a sinless life. Unless you are willing to state that Jesus gave us a command we can not keep.

Mathew 5:48
You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Quite the commandment, is it not?

And lest you forget, Jesus told others to “go and sin no more”. Is Jesus giving commands that he knows none could follow?

 

[mrS4ntA]

JesustheSavior:

and in wich of these verses mention purgatory?

I was referring to the faultiness of Sola Scriptura and the importance of Sacred Tradition

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Purgatory is mentioned in Maccabees, as is prayer for the dead. The word “purgatory” is from the Latin, and the concept was from the Aramaic, but the idea of a “place between” or a “place of purification” is in the Bible, in Maccabees.

 

[mrS4ntA]

And implicitly stated somewhere else, I think, when Christ talked about sins that “cannot be forgiven either in this life or in the next.”

 

[AmandaPS]

Funky Cedars:

as i recall, and i didn’t recheck scripture so i could be wrong, but i thought moses was denied entry into the promised land cuz he killed the egyptian guard. wouldn’t that indicate Daddy considered it a sin, and him a sinner?
what do you take the title, ‘full of grace’, to mean or signify?
thanks for listening, love and peace, terry

He took credit for bringing forth water from the rock, I think.
Numbers 27:12-14

In Deutronomy, Moses again asks God if he can enter the Promised Land and God said no.

 

[Vitus]

JesusIsTheWay:

You come in here and start labelling me with “Jack Chick-isms”? I saw something that looked interesting and related to that topic of discussion! You start talking about me and JesustheSavior and Cornerstone like you are “Holier than Thou”?? That doesn’t sound like the type of person who would wash his brothers feet.

There is nothing good that comes from the words of Jack Chick. He is on par with Fred Phelps.

Holier than Thou? Absolutely not. More understanding and learned? Probably, but that is neither here nor there.

Do not misjudge the fight against lies and ignorance as a fight against the people that you are. A defensive position requires strong words sometimes.

I can speak for the 3 of us when I say we are Saved!

A very bold and dangerous statement.

We believe in Jesus as our Lord and Savior. He died for our sins, He, and He alone, paid the Ultimate sacrifice for our sins. We have our relation ship with God, we confess our sins to Christ, and we try as hard as we can to stay in his good graces and do his will…

Are you saying that Catholics do not believe this?

NOT the mud slinging that this has evolved to…

You reap what you sow.

 

[JesustheSavior]

mrS4ntA:

I was referring to the faultiness of Sola Scriptura and the importance of Sacred Tradition

Ok,that i am aware of jewish people do not believe in purgatory.And if you claim that Sola Scritura is faultiness then that means that the bible is faulty,at least that is what i understand with the answer you just gave me.

 

[mrS4ntA]

JesustheSavior:

Ok,that i am aware of jewish people do not believe in purgatory.And if you claim that Sola Scritura is faultiness then that means that the bible is faulty,at least that is what i understand with the answer you just gave me.

hhh… must we go through it again? :banghead:

We do believe that the Bible is true and inerrant. What we don’t believe is relying solely on the Bible as the source of authority, especially when that “authority” is based on individual’s interpretation of the Bible – which is fallible !!

 

[JesusIsTheWay]

Vitus:

Yes, God incarnate. Which means he was also man. And as a man, if you are to take a literal reading of the scripture you quoted, means he was a sinner. ALL have sinned, remember? No where does it state all “but Jesus”, simply all. You can’t have it both ways.

And it is not impossible to lead a sinless life. Unless you are willing to state that Jesus gave us a command we can not keep.

Mathew 5:48
You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Quite the commandment, is it not?

And lest you forget, Jesus told others to “go and sin no more”. Is Jesus giving commands that he knows none could follow?

Do you hear your own words? You say Jesus has sinned. And then you say it is possible to lead a sinless life because Jesus would not give us a commandment that we cannot keep… and now I am hearing reverberating echos that Mary is the Sinless one that she DID lead a sinless life, although by your interpretation that is not supposed to be possible… this is the hypocracy that I have issues with… I am going to cut this post short because I am getting a headache trying to keep up with your train of thought…

By the way… I see you keep getting me and JesustheSavior mixed up… we are not one in the same…

 

[Vitus]

JesustheSavior:

Ok,that i am aware of jewish people do not believe in purgatory.

They do not call it purgatory, but Judaism does believe in the concept of purification in the afterlife. In Judaism, people who die are sent for no more than a year (in most cases) to be purified before they can come into the presence of God. While they don’t call it purgatory, it serves the exact same purpose. Of course, they don’t call it Heaven either, it is refered to as “the world to come” or “Gan Eden”.

 

[metal1633]

cornerstone:

if instead of attacking people you would take time to read what people post here this would not be laughable.
the languages of the Bible are Hebrew and Aramaic (old testament). Greek and a little Aramaic (new testament)
no latin.
again if you dont trust me read the section “Bible translations” and look for the post from metal1633

You really shouldnt quote me in defence of your position because I DO NOT support your position. What Biblical Language does YOUR Church worship in? I already know the answer. You dont use a biblical language. Niether do most Catholics. You CANNOT in good conscience accuse Catholics when you are in the very same boat. Latin is a perfectly good language for the Mass because its meaning does not change. English on the other hand is a living fluid language that allows people to twist the meaning of words to suit themselves. Now MY Church DOES however use a biblical language during Mass. We use Aramaic. Does this make me better? No. You using english doesnt make you better either.

 

[Tom]

JesustheSavior:

Ok,that i am aware of jewish people do not believe in purgatory.And if you claim that Sola Scritura is faultiness then that means that the bible is faulty,at least that is what i understand with the answer you just gave me.

Jews also don’t believe in the resurrection. It isn’t in their OT nor yours, but it is in ours.

 

[The_Barrister]

villaneweva:

Ok, so the Blessed Mother was sinless, what about her ancestors, were they sinless as well?

Eve was, for a short period of time.

 

[Tom]

JesustheSavior:

Ok,that i am aware of jewish people do not believe in purgatory.

Jews also don’t believe in the resurrection. It isn’t in their OT nor yours, but it is in ours.

 

[JesustheSavior]

mrS4ntA:

hhh… must we go through it again?

We do believe that the Bible is true and inerrant. What we don’t believe is relying solely on the Bible as the source of authority, especially when that “authority” is based on individual’s interpretation of the Bible – the latter is fallible !!

If that is the case,then the New Testament plus the Old Testament are not true accordingly to your believe at least not all of it.
So your authority comes from the church and what they tell you wich they are humans and i study once that popes say they are infallible is that the reason why you don’t believe entirely in the bible?
By the way one more thing those individuals that you say are those the apostles or you are refering to individuals that study the scriptures?.Can you please specify.

 

[JesustheSavior]

Tom:

Jews also don’t believe in the resurrection. It isn’t in their OT nor yours, but it is in ours.

But the Old Testament came from the Jews, the only one they don’t have is the New testament and is not they don’t believe in the resurrection they are still waiting there Messiah, wich is different.
So if it in yours like you said that means you have your own bible,how can that be?