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dixieagle
Guest
“Baptisms” which, of course, have exactly the same effect as if I declared that deceased ancestors were all Munchkins.Naw…proxy baptism in behalf of the dead are just that, in behalf of the dead.
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agnes_therese
Guest
No one has shown that it is.
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agnes_therese
Guest
I would. The example you give concern Mormon temple ceremonies. You haven’t shown any relation between those ceremonies and ancestry.com.
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Marie5890
Guest
The only possible connection would be an individual Mormon using ancestry.com to research their family tree and if, after having found said information on any given ancestor, uses it to submit that or those names for temple work, assuming it hadnt already been done.
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Jerusha
Guest
No there is another reason why LDS prying into the ancestry of others is a problem. The BoM and D&C 121 encourage intergenerational hatred. Therefore, if you can trace your ancestry back to people who opposed Mormonism in its first 30 years, they will hold this against you, and perhaps make things difficult for you. 
That is at the core of my problems with Mormonism.
That is at the core of my problems with Mormonism.
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Marie5890
Guest
Huh?No there is another reason why LDS prying into the ancestry of others is a problem. The BoM and D&C 121 encourage intergenerational hatred. Therefore, if you can trace your ancestry back to people who opposed Mormonism in its first 30 years, they will hold this against you, and perhaps make things difficult for you.
That is at the core of my problems with Mormonism.
The were never any talks or leaders teaching anyone to hold anything against anyone like you are suggesting when I was LDS. And I never taught it as a Sunday school teacher or Relief Society teacher or Visiting Teacher.
IMO, the real core problem about Mormonism is very simple. It’s false.
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Jerusha
Guest
Sorry, I have seen it. It rarely comes up, since many LDS honestly believe that it was fulfilled. I have no idea how many of us there are.
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Marie5890
Guest
Must be pretty isolated and more of a fringed element I’m guessing then.
I have never heard it taught, saw it taught, never taught it myself.
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Jerusha
Guest
Deep-ended type, I agree!!! 
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Anna_Scott
Guest
I wasn’t trying to make that connection. However, it would be very difficult to believe that any connection between ancestry.com and the LDS would not result in LDS use of the records.
Anna
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Marie5890
Guest
I’ve met some of those like that. Big into the Bircher Society…paranoid to the hilt and then some…Deep-ended type, I agree!!!
But I’ve seen that kind of religious/political paranoia in others of different denominations as well…
I think that it has less to do with the actual religious affiliation and more to do with something intrinsic in the personality type. It just gets manifest within whatever their faith traditions are…
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Smith, while imprisoned in Liberty jail, wrote a lot of ramblings about how he was blessed and favored by God but his enemies would not be so blessed:
13 Also because their hearts are corrupted, and the things which they are willing to bring upon others, and love to have others suffer, may come upon athemselves to the very uttermost;
14 That they may be adisappointed also, and their hopes may be cut off;
15 And not many years hence, that they and their aposterity shall be swept from under heaven, saith God, that not one of them is left to stand by the wall.
19 Wo unto them; because they have aoffended my little ones they shall be severed from the bordinances of mine house.
20 Their abasket shall not be full, their houses and their barns shall perish, and they themselves shall be bdespised by those that flattered them.
21 They shall not have right to the apriesthood, nor their posterity after them from generation to generation.
Canonized in Mormon scripture D&C 121
The “from generation to generation” was used by Smith more than once. Found in his ramblings in the D&C (about himself) and in the BoM. He must have thought it had an impact on his listeners.
“Let the Government of Mo. redress the wrongs she has don to the mormons or let the curse follow them from generation to generation” Joseph Smith Jr. (from his diary) Printed in the “History of the Church” (with spelling corrected).
At any rate, to enforce verse 21, the genealogy of people has to be known.
13 Also because their hearts are corrupted, and the things which they are willing to bring upon others, and love to have others suffer, may come upon athemselves to the very uttermost;
14 That they may be adisappointed also, and their hopes may be cut off;
15 And not many years hence, that they and their aposterity shall be swept from under heaven, saith God, that not one of them is left to stand by the wall.
19 Wo unto them; because they have aoffended my little ones they shall be severed from the bordinances of mine house.
20 Their abasket shall not be full, their houses and their barns shall perish, and they themselves shall be bdespised by those that flattered them.
21 They shall not have right to the apriesthood, nor their posterity after them from generation to generation.
Canonized in Mormon scripture D&C 121
The “from generation to generation” was used by Smith more than once. Found in his ramblings in the D&C (about himself) and in the BoM. He must have thought it had an impact on his listeners.
“Let the Government of Mo. redress the wrongs she has don to the mormons or let the curse follow them from generation to generation” Joseph Smith Jr. (from his diary) Printed in the “History of the Church” (with spelling corrected).
At any rate, to enforce verse 21, the genealogy of people has to be known.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Christ really turned things around in some areas…and we don’t curse, we are to bless our enemies.
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TruthLiving
Guest
That is not correct. Ancestry is not owned in anyway by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The church’s main family history website is familysearch.org
I know this personally because I have been using the resources for years from familysearch. org. Ancestry is a separate entity.
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Jerusha
Guest
I just noted this new thread:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=644814
Exploring the experiences of your ancestors is an important part of understanding the culture of the family in which you were raised.
It is much deeper than temple rites for the dead, which are superficial and mechanical. It definitely has a place in Catholic life, particularly for indigenous populations, and other minorities.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=644814
Exploring the experiences of your ancestors is an important part of understanding the culture of the family in which you were raised.
It is much deeper than temple rites for the dead, which are superficial and mechanical. It definitely has a place in Catholic life, particularly for indigenous populations, and other minorities.
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TimothyH
Guest
This is an extremely imporant post. This is fist hand information and should not be ignored.
The behavior of the LDS church with regard to so called posthumous rebaptism, even if their rituals and rites have no sacramental effect on the dead, it is not benign.
I have no desire for my great grandchildren to see some record somewhere which lists me as having been affiliated or attached in any wa to the LDS Church. I don’t want my ancestors to be given any reason to consider the LDS Church as worthy of consideration. Listing someones ancestors as having been somehow affiliated with or attached in some way to the LDS Church when they were in fact not does just that.
These are not kids playing with a plastic Harry Potter magic wands from the toy store. Aside from the sacramental effect they believe the rituals and rites have, the effect and intent is to pull people into the Mormon faith. Catholics have an obligation to God to resist pulling people out of the true faith. This is especially true when it comes to our Children whom God has placed in our care.
My children have been warned that these sites, if not proven to be part of the LDS Church (which familysearch.org has explicitly stated that it is), show enough evidence of proximity to LDS to warrant avoiding them altogether.
I will not compromize on the salvation of my Children. My children have been sterly warned about these sites.
-Tim-
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agnes_therese
Guest
The LDS already had miles and miles and miles of microfilm, years before anyone even thought of starting ancestry.com. Even if they didn’t, they can access any publicly-available record, just like you and I could. The only “solution” to this non-existent “problem” would be for no one, anywhere, ever, to have any access to any records that would reveal anything about anyone’s ancestry.
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agnes_therese
Guest
Therefore, if you can trace your ancestry back to people who opposed Mormonism in its first 30 years, they will hold this against you, and perhaps make things difficult for you.
QUOTE]
Really? Two questions:
- How are they going to know that I traced my ancestry back to someone who opposed Mormonism?
- Exactly how will the Church of Latter-Day Saints, to which I do not belong, “make things difficult” for me?
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JustaServant
Guest
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Jerusha
Guest
Making genealogy a private hobby would make it nearly impossible, because then people could not link up with established lines. However, my personal belief is that g’g’g grandparents is just as far as one needs to go. In that case, private genealogies might work. DAR is a snob org, anyway.
Hate crimes laws should be enacted nation-wide which cover ancestry, as well as the traditional categories. Most such laws do include it, but nobody really understands what it is about. If they are aggressively prosecuted there would not be such serious concerns. But the perps can be awfully sneaky.
People should not have to suffer for the sins, crimes, or actions of their ancestors.
Signed,
Korihor
Hate crimes laws should be enacted nation-wide which cover ancestry, as well as the traditional categories. Most such laws do include it, but nobody really understands what it is about. If they are aggressively prosecuted there would not be such serious concerns. But the perps can be awfully sneaky.
People should not have to suffer for the sins, crimes, or actions of their ancestors.
Signed,
Korihor
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