Ancestry.com and the Mormon Church

[Telstar]

That question will have to wait until Mitt Romney becomes president.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!

That’s not even the least bit funny!! :banghead:

:crying: :crying: :crying:

 

[TruthLiving]

You DO know that not everyone in Provo is a Mormon, right? And as for the “sources at the end,” they’re only as accurate as the person who put them there.

WRONG!! I have a friend who is professor at the law school at BYU and he is not a Mormon so this idea that everyone in Provo is a Mormon is wrong.

 

[Marie5890]

WRONG!! I have a friend who is professor at the law school at BYU and he is not a Mormon so this idea that everyone in Provo is a Mormon is wrong.

You need to re-read CC’s post.

That is what they said.

 

[CatholicFireman]

Here’s an article that I think is related to the OP: news.yahoo.com/mormons-apologize-posthumous-jewish-baptism-190124456.html

 

[TruthLiving]

Is Ancestry.com a reliable resource for genealogical research despite it being run by the Mormon church?

That is not correct. Ancestry is a private company with no connection to the LDS church, according to my Mormon friends.

 

[TimothyH]

That is not correct. Ancestry is a private company with no connection to the LDS church, according to my Mormon friends.

Familysearch.org is however, owned and operated by LDS.

Both the LDS and familysearch website state this clearly.

-Tim-

 

[KathleenGee]

They apologize…but look at what happened to John Paul II…he was baptized 6 times, he was made a member of the San Diego, CA temple…which Mormons say, is not proper…making a person a member of their religion.

But are the Jewish names removed from ever being baptized in the first place?

If the Mormons stop the baptism of the dead, then the temples will not be used any more to gain new members…a contradiction here…for their celestial heaven…You don’t have to be a deceased member of a Mormon temple, but Mormonism assumes that when the deceased are baptized, they can see the truth and will chose Mormonism…

 

[JHow]

They apologize…but look at what happened to John Paul II…he was baptized 6 times, he was made a member of the San Diego, CA temple…which Mormons say, is not proper…making a person a member of their religion.

But are the Jewish names removed from ever being baptized in the first place?

If the Mormons stop the baptism of the dead, then the temples will not be used any more to gain new members…a contradiction here…for their celestial heaven…You don’t have to be a deceased member of a Mormon temple, but Mormonism assumes that when the deceased are baptized, they can see the truth and will chose Mormonism…

Perhaps a revelation will be received and the practice (and its theological underpinnings) will be dis-continued?

 

[twopekinguys]

They apologize…but look at what happened to John Paul II…he was baptized 6 times, he was made a member of the San Diego, CA temple…which Mormons say, is not proper…making a person a member of their religion.

But are the Jewish names removed from ever being baptized in the first place?

If the Mormons stop the baptism of the dead, then the temples will not be used any more to gain new members…a contradiction here…for their celestial heaven…You don’t have to be a deceased member of a Mormon temple, but Mormonism assumes that when the deceased are baptized, they can see the truth and will chose Mormonism…

Not likely to happen. They are still at it.

washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/mormons-apologize-for-proxy-posthumous-baptism-of-jewish-rights-advocate-wiesenthals-family/2012/02/14/gIQAf8WpDR_story.html

 

[Marie5890]

They apologize…but look at what happened to John Paul II…he was baptized 6 times, he was made a member of the San Diego, CA temple…which Mormons say, is not proper…making a person a member of their religion.

Geez…

 

[Marie5890]

Not likely to happen. They are still at it.

washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/mormons-apologize-for-proxy-posthumous-baptism-of-jewish-rights-advocate-wiesenthals-family/2012/02/14/gIQAf8WpDR_story.html

Feb 14, 2012.

Well the LDS is still allowing this complete and utter disrespect to continue.

And some LDS moan that they arent respected?!?

 

[agnes_therese]

Not likely to happen. They are still at it.

washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/mormons-apologize-for-proxy-posthumous-baptism-of-jewish-rights-advocate-wiesenthals-family/2012/02/14/gIQAf8WpDR_story.html

Which still has nothing to do with ancestry.com.

 

[twopekinguys]

Feb 14, 2012.

Well the LDS is still allowing this complete and utter disrespect to continue.

And some LDS moan that they arent respected?!?

I agree. Here is a quote from another article (bolding mine), regarding their most recent agreement from 2010.

"Mormon officials noted a “shift of emphasis” for Church members in entering names for baptism by computer.
**
“It is the personal responsibility of Church members to submit temple work [proxy baptism] for their own families,” noted Mormon spokesman Otterson.**

He explained that for the first time Mormons would have to show a direct family lineage to the names they choose to enter for proxy baptism. In addition, computer instructions will inform members of the exemption for Holocaust victims and ask if the entries are in compliance with Church policy."

thejewishweek.com/editorial_opinion/gary_rosenblat/mormons_jews_new_pact_baptisms

If, and this is a big “if”, they do follow the rules and show lineage, the number of proxy baptisms should drop dramatically.

 

[TimothyH]

Not likely to happen. They are still at it.

washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/mormons-apologize-for-proxy-posthumous-baptism-of-jewish-rights-advocate-wiesenthals-family/2012/02/14/gIQAf8WpDR_story.html

Radkey found documentation of the baptism of the Wiesenthals last week while conducting regular checks of a church database. Jews have relied on the work of Radkey, a former Mormon, since 1999, although Mormon church officials have publicly questioned her motives for reviewing the database.

What database is this and how did Radkey access it? I assume it is an online database. Is this familysearch?

-Tim-

 

[Marianna_Mills]

I dont see why it being run my Mormons should make it unreliable. I trace my ancestry on their. I was able to trace back to royalty of Ancient Rome. Thank God AFTER Jesus’ execution. I dont want that in my ancestry. It turns out my Grandfather came from multiple lines of royalty. Explains a lot (His family owns land).

 

[twopekinguys]

Radkey found documentation of the baptism of the Wiesenthals last week while conducting regular checks of a church database. Jews have relied on the work of Radkey, a former Mormon, since 1999, although Mormon church officials have publicly questioned her motives for reviewing the database.

What database is this and how did Radkey access it? I assume it is an online database. Is this familysearch?

-Tim-

From what I understand, the database(s) that the general public uses don’t disclose this information. It is restricted to members of the mormon church, that have the proper login.

Earlier articles regarding Radkey’s access mentioned that she found some of the information using the computers at a mormon family research library, etc.

In general, the “ordinance” information is hidden from the general public.

This whole thing is nothing but a PR nightmare for them.

ETA: jewishgen.org/infofiles/ldsagree.html
More interesting info on the subject.

 

[zaffiroborant]

In general, the “ordinance” information is hidden from the general public.

.

Secret records of secret rituals, and they are surprised and miffed when polls show that secretive is one of the top things that come to mind when people think of Mormons

 

[Marie5890]

From what I understand, the database(s) that the general public uses don’t disclose this information. It is restricted to members of the mormon church, that have the proper login.

Earlier articles regarding Radkey’s access mentioned that she found some of the information using the computers at a mormon family research library, etc.

In general, the “ordinance” information is hidden from the general public.

This whole thing is nothing but a PR nightmare for them.

ETA: jewishgen.org/infofiles/ldsagree.html
More interesting info on the subject.

If I recall correctly back when I took a genealogical course at BYU, that would be the IGI

I remember having to search it back then (it was on microfilm) for my class to see if any of my ancestors had had their work done.

(they grateful had not)

One whole wing of the HBL library wad dedicated to genealogical arm of the church.

 

[JHow]

You can search the IDI here…

familysearch.org/eng/search/IGI/search_igi.asp

You can get some odd results doing searches on this. I can absolutely state that in the case of some of my family members the information contained here is badly researched.

Here is some sample output…

GI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
Continental Europe
Search Results | Download | Print

Faustina Kowalska
Pedigree
Female

Event(s):
Birth:
25 AUG 1905 , , Poland
Christening:
Death:
05 OCT 1938
Burial:

Messages:
Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church. No additional information is available. Ancestral File may list the same family and the submitter.

Source Information:
No source information is available.

I would assume if your name is in the IGI, this would indicate some high chance that some sort of temple work was performed. The sources given for much of this are like this example:

Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church. No additional information is available. Ancestral File may list the same family and the submitter.

Sometimes you hit on records that come from pre-1991 microfiche/film.

For an example of how odd these records can be:

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
Continental Europe
Search Results | Download | Print

FAUSTINA HELEN KOWALSKA
Pedigree
Female
Family

Event(s):
Birth:
1876
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Marriages:
Spouse: MR. KOWALSKA
Family
Marriage:
1895 , , Poland

Messages:
Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church. No additional information is available. Ancestral File may list the same family and the submitter.

Source Information:
No source information is available.

Wrong date, wrong declension on the spouse’s family name, why a spouse…?

 

[maryjk]

Mormons apologize for baptizing parents of Nazi hunter Wiesenthal

latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/02/mormon-church-apologizes-for-posthumous-baptism-of-simon-wiesenthals-parents.html

Simon Wiesenthal’s parents should not have been posthumously baptized, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has acknowledged. And on Monday, an official with the church apologized.

The uproar began last week when it was discovered that a member of the Mormon Church had submitted for posthumous baptism the names of Wiesenthal’s parents, and that the couple, Asher and Rosa Rapp Wiesenthal, were baptized by proxy last month.