Ancestry.com and the Mormon Church

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Looks like it is time to have this organization investigated, compromising the identity of the deceased, as well in regards to the identity and sensitivity of their families who are non-Mormons.

I am going to contact my brother who used them for our family tree…may be I am now a baptized Mormon.

I am going to add that when the Mormons have temples every where, and now with Rome having a Mormon temple going up in the countryside, with their baptisms of the dead done in temples, they will then see themselves as overtaking the Roman Catholic Church, and be the top religion in the world…

Wonder if they are accessing Muslim records now…that would be lethal.
 
Corvus_Corax said:
And as for the “sources at the end,” they’re only as accurate as the person who put them there.
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Wut? That’s not how sources work. You’re not supposed to go “Well, that’s got a source, so it’s true”, or “Sure, it says that I can find this in a respected journal, but I have to take your word for it”; you’re supposed to go “Ah, a source for me to look up”. The whole point is that a source does not depend on you trusting the person who includes it: it gives you a way to check for yourself whether it is really in the source.

If I tell you that a given event happened, and then I give you a source for this that is (for example) a particular page of a particular issue of the Sunday Times, the accuracy of this source has absolutely nothing to do with how accurate I myself am: you can look it up and see if the Sunday Times did indeed report on this event. Then you can decide if the Sunday Times is reliable or accurate, but it is nothing to do with how accurate I am.

Sorry if this is off topic: I just really can’t work out where this quoted sentence is coming from.
 
Please tell me ya’ll are not saying what I think you are saying.
That the Mormon Church uses these records to ‘Baptize’ our great-grandparents and put them down listed as Mormon?
That’s a hellava way to increase membership in one’s church.:rolleyes:
 
JustaServant said:
Please tell me ya’ll are not saying what I think you are saying.
That the Mormon Church uses these records to ‘Baptize’ our great-grandparents and put them down listed as Mormon?
That’s a hellava way to increase membership in one’s church.:rolleyes:
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Yes they do baptisms with those records but it doesn’t increase the membership of the church. Although it might behoove them to do that since active membership is declining sharply and Mormons are always concerned about numbers
 
JustaServant said:
Please tell me ya’ll are not saying what I think you are saying.
That the Mormon Church uses these records to ‘Baptize’ our great-grandparents and put them down listed as Mormon?
That’s a hellava way to increase membership in one’s church.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
JustaServant,

Sorry to say that is what they do. Deceased Catholic Priests have been baptized, ordained to the Mormon Priesthood, and even sealed to a wife or wives–all done by proxy in Mormon temples. I don’t know how they count them in their membership records.

There have been serious issues with the LDS baptizing deceased Jews who died for their faith in the Holocaust.

The more records the LDS obtain, the more proxy temple rites are performed.

Peace,
Anna
 
Whois for the name acestry.com show that they are indeed in Utah.

Ancestry.com Operations Inc.
360 W 4800 N
Provo, UT 84604
US

I looked at all the public information for both mormon.org and ancestry.com DNS names and it does not look like they share any computer or network infrastructure that I could see.

Interestingly, mormon.org is registered by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. When you hit www.intellectualreserveinc.org in a browser, it redirects to www.mormon.org. Wikipedia says that Intellectual Reserve Inc. is a non-for profit owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that it holds the LDS Church’s intellectual property, copyrights, trademarks, etc. So it looks like Intellectual Reserve Inc. is also an internet name registrar and the organization which does LDS’s web hosting.

Poking around some more, I came across a public blog site which explains how to download the Mormon Church’s “Church Handbook of Instructions” from familysearch.org. Sure enough, the DNS name familysearch.org is registered at Intellectual Reserve Inc. FamilySearch.org is run by the The Genealogical Society of Utah and both are funded by LDS accoring to the Genealogical Society of Utah’s own FAQ. From that same FAQ…

***Q. Why are Mormons (members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) interested in family history?

A. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints emphasizes the importance of the family and the value of learning about their heritage. In addition, the Church teaches that family bonds, the most sacred of all human relationships, can last eternally. Church members believe that through religious rites performed in holy temples, husbands and wives, parents and children can receive the promise that they can be united forever-even after death. They believe that temple blessings are available to those that have died as well as those who are now living. Thus, members of the Church feel strongly motivated to seek information about their deceased ancestors and participate in temple rites in their behalf. They believe that those who are dead retain their identity and free will and therefore can either accept or reject the rites performed for them ***

They believe this so strongly that they excavated the side of a mountain to store and preserve family records. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granite_Mountain_(Utah.

http://utahpictures.com/images/BellsCanyon/smSecretBase1.jpg

Now, everyone keeps records, including the Catholic Church, and even the Catholic Church does not let just anyone rummage through the file cabinets whenever they want, so no one is begrudging the LDS for keeping records, or even for doing so inside of a mountain.

But there is a fixation with geneology, and familysearch.org is 100% mormon by their own admission. Family Search/Genealogical Society of Utah are members of all kinds of international geneology socieity associations, scientific research groups on how to preserve records, and other such things. Geneology is clearly important to them.

And the history of ancestry.com, and the fact that it is in Utah, makes me want to never touch that site.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
Whois for the name acestry.com show that they are indeed in Utah.

Ancestry.com Operations Inc.
360 W 4800 N
Provo, UT 84604
US

I looked at all the public information for both mormon.org and ancestry.com DNS names and it does not look like they share any computer or network infrastructure that I could see. . . .
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Tim,
Very interesting information.

Though the LDS claim the deceased have free will to accept or reject the rites; the rites themselves offer no such choice.

Anna
 
TimothyH said:
Interestingly, mormon.org is registered by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. When you hit www.intellectualreserveinc.org in a browser, it redirects to www.mormon.org. Wikipedia says that Intellectual Reserve Inc. is a non-for profit owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that it holds the LDS Church’s intellectual property, copyrights, trademarks, etc. So it looks like Intellectual Reserve Inc. is also an internet name registrar and the organization which does LDS’s web hosting.

Poking around some more, I came across a public blog site which explains how to download the Mormon Church’s “Church Handbook of Instructions” from familysearch.org. Sure enough, the DNS name familysearch.org is registered at Intellectual Reserve Inc. FamilySearch.org is run by the The Genealogical Society of Utah and both are funded by LDS accoring to the Genealogical Society of Utah’s own FAQ. From that same FAQ…

***Q. Why are Mormons (members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) interested in family history?

A. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints emphasizes the importance of the family and the value of learning about their heritage. In addition, the Church teaches that family bonds, the most sacred of all human relationships, can last eternally. Church members believe that through religious rites performed in holy temples, husbands and wives, parents and children can receive the promise that they can be united forever-even after death. They believe that temple blessings are available to those that have died as well as those who are now living. Thus, members of the Church feel strongly motivated to seek information about their deceased ancestors and participate in temple rites in their behalf. They believe that those who are dead retain their identity and free will and therefore can either accept or reject the rites performed for them ***

They believe this so strongly that they excavated the side of a mountain to store and preserve family records. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granite_Mountain_(Utah.

Account Suspended

Now, everyone keeps records, including the Catholic Church, and even the Catholic Church does not let just anyone rummage through the file cabinets whenever they want, so no one is begrudging the LDS for keeping records, or even for doing so inside of a mountain.

But there is a fixation with geneology, and familysearch.org is 100% mormon by their own admission. Family Search/Genealogical Society of Utah are members of all kinds of international geneology socieity associations, scientific research groups on how to preserve records, and other such things. Geneology is clearly important to them.

And the history of ancestry.com, and the fact that it is in Utah, makes me want to never touch that site.

-Tim-
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Yes, IRI is the church’s copyright holding arm. Another example is in the LDS hymnbook. For those tunes the church “owns” so to speak you’ll see the IRI copyright on the bottom.

They’ve been tinkering with Family Search for 4 or so years trying to make it more expansive, essentially to be able to make ALL the records in the mountainside vault available online.

I think the concentration on geneaology is one of the few commendable sides of the church.

They’re trying to do anything they can do endear themselves to the general public but the church has too sordid and checkered a history to make this truly possible.
 
How well known is this in in the mainstream media? They got cutesy little ads on TV all the time about finding Grandma and Grandpap, which is fine, if all they were doing offering a service. But they obviously have an alterior motive. It’s not about the ritual, they can ‘baptize’ them into the Purple Spagetti Montster cult.
But shouldn’t they at the very least get permission of the families before they perform their rituals? Sounds like an invasion of privacy to me. My family was Catholic on both sides, they have no right to ‘baptize’ my decesed mother and father into thier cult.
 
Isn’t the cat out of the bag already? The census is public and openly available up to 1930, 1940 will be released this year. They list everyone in the household.

archives.gov/research/census/research.html

I get that people find the Mormon practice off-putting, but really, what can be done practically? The RC church can, in the future, decide not to provide baptismal records, etc. but birth, death, marriage recs are all public.
 
JustaServant said:
How well known is this in in the mainstream media? They got cutesy little ads on TV all the time about finding Grandma and Grandpap, which is fine, if all they were doing offering a service. But they obviously have an alterior motive. It’s not about the ritual, they can ‘baptize’ them into the Purple Spagetti Montster cult.
But shouldn’t they at the very least get permission of the families before they perform their rituals? Sounds like an invasion of privacy to me. My family was Catholic on both sides, they have no right to ‘baptize’ my decesed mother and father into thier cult.
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It’s been out there in the mainstream media because the church got heat from baptizing Jews from holocaust records.

The attention to it waxes and wanes. I’m surprised we havent heard more about that subject considering Mitt Romney’s candidacy.
 
JHow said:
Isn’t the cat out of the bag already? The census is public and openly available up to 1930, 1940 will be released this year. They list everyone in the household.

archives.gov/research/census/research.html

I get that people find the Mormon practice off-putting, but really, what can be done practically? The RC church can, in the future, decide not to provide baptismal records, etc. but birth, death, marriage recs are all public.
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This is a good point. Much of it is in the public record.

I can hire a private detective for $100 and they will tell me where you work, where you bank, what your bank account numbers are, your home and cell number, email address, birth date, if you own a business and in what state, and a whole host of other information.

The fact that they have some ritual which they say baptizes someone does not bother me. God will take care of all that at the end of time. Quite frankly, I’m more concerned with someone getting my paypal password. 🤷

I think I’m going to write a letter to the LDS rejecting their baptism though, just to be safe. I’ll get a kick out of knowing that it will be kept in the nuclear bomb proof recored vault inside of a mountain so that I can show it to Jesus at the end of time.

-Tim-
-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
This is a good point. Much of it is in the public record.

I can hire a private detective for $100 and they will tell me where you work, where you bank, what your bank account numbers are, your home and cell number, email address, birth date, if you own a business and in what state, and a whole host of other information.

The fact that they have some ritual which they say baptizes someone does not bother me. God will take care of all that at the end of time. Quite frankly, I’m more concerned with someone getting my paypal password. 🤷

I think I’m going to write a letter to the LDS rejecting their baptism though, just to be safe. I’ll get a kick out of knowing that it will be kept in the nuclear bomb proof recored vault inside of a mountain so that I can show it to Jesus at the end of time.

-Tim-
-Tim-
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If the TV show “Leverage” is to be believed a good computer hacker can get all that, and more…:eek:
😃
 
JustaServant said:
If the TV show “Leverage” is to be believed a good computer hacker can get all that, and more…:eek:
😃
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I don’t hack. Let’s be clear.

What I get is freely available on the internet by doing a “whois” search. One can also go to the Securities and Exchange commission website and look at corporate reports and other SEC filings if the company is publically traded. There you can find who owns who, hos much money they make, who they donate money to, etc. Once can easily find this information for non-for profits as well.

I have no clue how a private investigator gets info. I know someone who did have to use a private investigator in order to collect a debt and the information they get is impressive.

-Tim
 
Going back, why were Catholic parishes allowing sacramental records to go out for non-Catholic organizations?

My deceased grandfather never revealed much of his past. His was the family secret…I heard he became a Catholic the day before his wedding to my grandmother. I called the town where they were married, and the sacramental baptismal records in the parish then revealed to us his parents’ identity. Apparently, from other information, he left an dysfunctional and unhappy home when he was 15. We offered a Mass for him and for his peace, and we all experienced a sense of holiness among us…
 
agnes_therese said:
So you won’t deal with any company that is headquartered in Utah?
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My dear agnes;

I gave my own personal opinion that suspicions about ancestry.com being spomehow affiliated with LDS was well founded enought that I personally thought it best not to do business with that particular company. I thought that opinion was presented in a well thought out and lucid manner, and it certianly was backed up by research and data.

My dear friend, how did we possibly get from that opinion about a specific company to my being against doing business with all Utah based businesses? It seems to me to be quite a jump.

No Maam, my trip to Moab and visit to Arches and Canyonlands National Parks was something I will never forget. It was the trip of a lifetime.

-Tim-
 
KathleenGee said:
Going back, why were Catholic parishes allowing sacramental records to go out for non-Catholic organizations?

My deceased grandfather never revealed much of his past. His was the family secret…I heard he became a Catholic the day before his wedding to my grandmother. I called the town where they were married, and the sacramental baptismal records in the parish then revealed to us his parents’ identity. Apparently, from other information, he left an dysfunctional and unhappy home when he was 15. We offered a Mass for him and for his peace, and we all experienced a sense of holiness among us…
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I suspect the genealogical society of Utah asked for the records. Seems no harm in letting a genealogy organization use records. Just took a while (years) for people to discover who the society was an agent for, and what was being done with the records by the Mormon church.
 
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