And Still They Reenlist

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Richardols:
What clear goal is that?.
The establishment of stable government and an end to terrorism.
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Richardols:
With all the new weaponry and Buck Rogers technology, I’d expect skills to rise. I reject the notion that these men are any more professional than we or other soldiers of other wars were.
Technology is one thing, skills and professionalism are another – in more than 40 years in the Army and working with troops in projects after retirement, I’ve never seen more skilled and professional troops.
 
drivel that is the US media: I choose not to do so. Like our government, they’ve proven themselves to be lazy and deceptive so anyone relying on them would need serious help.

I’m glad that you too have people you can talk to.
 
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wabrams:
I competely understand what you are saying, and you are pretty much right. But the Arabs have been fighting each other since before Christ and will keep doing it until the Apocalypse.
When they fought with swords on horseback, that was one thing. When they take up international terrorism, make and use weapons of mass destruction, and present a threat to the whole world, it’s another.
 
vern humphrey:
When they fought with swords on horseback, that was one thing. When they take up international terrorism, make and use weapons of mass destruction, and present a threat to the whole world, it’s another.
Very true, but what has made them do those things?
 
vern humphrey:
The establishment of stable government and an end to terrorism.
I thought that was to be the Iraqis’ job. Or are we going to have soldiers there indefinitely.
Technology is one thing, skills and professionalism are another – in more than 40 years in the Army and working with troops in projects after retirement, I’ve never seen more skilled and professional troops.
I’ll concede skilled as that’s quantifiable. I don’t concede professionalism as that’s a judgment call, and the officers I served with 30+ years ago lacked nothing in professionalism.

Your opinion, of course, is your opinion and respected as such.
 
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Richardols:
I thought that was to be the Iraqis’ job. Or are we going to have soldiers there indefinitely.
It’s everyone’s job – walking away and leaving the job unfinished would disasterous to our National Security. It would encourage the terrorists.

As for how long we stay, I was Deputy Operations Officer to the 2nd Infantry Division in Korea in '80 and ''81 – almost 30 years after the Truce. And we STILL have troops in Korea – more than 50 years after the Truce.

Our decisions to stay or leave should be based on our own judgement of how it affects out national security.
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Richardols:
I’ll concede skilled as that’s quantifiable. I don’t concede professionalism as that’s a judgment call, and the officers I served with 30+ years ago lacked nothing in professionalism…
If you had an opportunity to work with the New Breed, you’d see they have taken professionalism to a whole new level.
 
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wabrams:
If it was that simple, we would be trying to annihilate them, not help them.
You do understand that Muslims are human beings? You do understand that when you paint a whole class of human beings as evil and deserving of annihilation, you are doing something immoral?

Millions of Muslims were victims of Saddam Hussain, the Taliban and the terrorist organizations. Our war is not with these people, but with their oppressors.

Both charity and self-interest dictate that we help the victims to build a free nation.
 
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Richardols:
My “clue” is derived from 12 years of military service in the Air Force, of which two years were in Vietnam, and three in Southeast Asia. The five years in Asia should serve as my “understanding” of self-sacrifice.
I agree with you on that point and I thank your service. When the Vietnam veterans returned from their service I was in college and I was not as grateful as I should have been since our country was in the midst of controversy and protest. It was expecially on my campus.
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Richardols:
And the average military person is a reflection of our own society, some knuckleheads, some brilliant people, but mostly as average as the rest of us.
Yes, I guess we have seen many of the knuckleheads on TV. I have personally met many that I **do **consider above average, so pardon my bias.
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Richardols:
BTW, Big Hero, what war did you serve in?
You might misunderstand my posts. It was my husband that served during the Vietnam War era. He was not in Vietnam. He served full time 2 years and then 20 + years in the Army Reserves. It is my daughter that is currently serving and will return for her second deployment to the Middle East as a helicopter pilot.

I think your sarcasm with me speaks volumes of what you think of someone with another viewpoint on this.
 
vern humphrey:
Millions of Muslims were victims of Saddam Hussain, the Taliban and the terrorist organizations. Our war is not with these people, but with their oppressors.
What I’m getting at is why do the Taliban and other terrorist organizations do what they do against the west?
 
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wabrams:
What I’m getting at is why do the Taliban and other terrorist organizations do what they do against the west?
They do what they do for the same reasons the Nazis murdered 12 million people in the Holocaust and the Khmer Rouge killed some 2 million people after taking over Cambodia.

They do it because they make a conscious choice to do evil.
 
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Scott_Lafrance:
The problem, Sho, is that in Iraq, you could point your finger directly at Saddam as the source of their troubles (actually, you can point at the Qu’ran, but lets keep this political). Africa is a completely different problem. The things happening in Africa as tribal wars that have been going on since before Christ, and will continue to happen until Christ returns.
Code:
Thank you Scott. I am not the brightest bulb in the basement. :o I am just trying to say that the reason for going to Iraq is not unadulterated altruism.

Christ is risen…truly He is risen!
Shoshana
 
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Shoshana:
Code:
Thank you Scott. I am not the brightest bulb in the basement. :o I am just trying to say that the reason for going to Iraq is not unadulterated altruism.

Christ is risen…truly He is risen!
Shoshana
Why would any human action have to be “unadulterated altruism?”
 
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Shoshana:
Code:
Hi Fitz,

I am trying to be respectful here and I try to understand but if this reasoning is what brought the US to Iraq, then, there is just as many other atrocities happening in Africa. Nobody pays heed to that and millions are dying. This genocide has been happening for YEARS and yet no one pays attention.

You can respectfully disagree with me anytime. I know you and your sentiments. I don’t mind explaining my reasoning. There are many areas of Africa that do need the world to intervene. I thin the United Nations is remiss in this. I listen to discussion about this on the radio and I know something needs to be done. However, when civil unrest is the case it is much harder to deal with. I am not well read on this subject but I don’t want to mix Africa up with Iraq. We need to complete the protection of the new government and I am sure we will. I don’t doubt we could be there a long time, and there are other countries that we have had a military presence in since WW II or the Korean War.
I don’t think we value African lives less, but we had more or a threat to our own country by the terrorist activities in the Middle East.
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Shoshana:
The world has not learnt its lesson.
I totally agree that the world has not learned its lesson. Why didn’t more coutries take Saddam’s threat more seriously? I think we are finding out it was money! Oil for Food money.
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Shoshana:
Maybe there is no help for Africa is because Africa has nothing to offer the world. Why bother…
I disagree with you there Sho. I not only think that Africa has a lot to offer, but I don’t know that the United States has expected any repayment for any help that we have ever given any country.
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Shoshana:
And then we have the holocaust happening in the Americas with Millions and Millions of babies who are totally defenseless who are being decapitated, dismembered and burnt alive. Arghhhhh. I see too much ‘a hella of’ a big double standard…and it doesn’t jive…
I agree that abortion has been one of the worst crimes that is being allowed by most nations on this earth. It is wrong and we fight it every day. I just received Fr. Pavone’s newsletter today. Fighting for life has to become one of our major fights. This is not an American only problem. It is a world problem. I guess I don’t understand what you mean about a double standard. Do you think that we can’t do more than one battle I am afraid we need to have effort on all fronts.
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Shoshana:
My own two cents Fitz…still friends? 😃 My 2 cents back at you and friends of course! We can agree to listen to each other. God Bless! 😉

Christ is risen…truly H eis risen!
Shoshana

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vern humphrey:
Why would any human action have to be “unadulterated altruism?”
Code:
The more unadulterated it is, the more pure the motivation.

Christ is risen…truly He is riasen!
Shoshana
 
vern humphrey:
“Infected with depleted uranium sickness?”

Steve, I actually wrote the manual on dealing with DU on the battlefield – I was under contact to the Army Chemical Center for a while in the late '90s.

Belive me, there is no such thing as "Infected with depleted uranium sickness."http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
The phrase “infected with depleted uranium sickness” should be understood in this sense: “exposed to depleted uranium, which many fear may cause cancer and birth defects.” Since these fears may well be realized, the layperson’s term “sickness” is justified. A damaged physiological state that eventually results in pathologies can, in common parlance, be called an illness with which one is infected. Aren’t smokers making themselves sick years before they’re diagnosed with lung cancer?

You may say that the Pentagon claims that depleted uranium poses no serious danger:

defenselink.mil/news/Oct2004/n10192004_2004101903.html

My reply is this: this claim is being made by a branch of the same government that urgently assured the American people that Saddam Hussein’s régime possessed weapons of mass destruction–weapons which have never been found. The credibility of this government has thus been severely compromised. Catholics, of course, should favor a prudent skepticism in reference to *any * government in view of the dogma of original sin. Please see section 407 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

“Ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action, and morals.”

I urge everyone to check out the following Web sites to become educated on the potential horrors involved in the U.S. military’s use of depleted uranium:

iacenter.org/depleted/du.htm
traprockpeace.org/links_disarmament.html
cadu.org.uk/

I love this quotation from Mark Twain:

“Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it.”

Keep and spread the Faith.
 
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