And that's when I walked out of mass

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I don’t think people should be worrying too much about ALPHA - in my experience it’s as threatening or as useful as one makes it.

In England we have a Catholic Alpha Office and it has been supported by Fr Raniero Cantalamessa (one time preacher to the papal household). It’s a kerigmatic, rather than a catechetical, course. We ran it in our parish and it was a positive experience for a number of reasons…
  1. It simply gathers people together - those interested in the faith and those who have been Catholics for a long time - in the same room.
  2. It’s a good excuse to share food and to make new friends with folks from the community.
  3. The principle is that one can ask ANY question.
  4. It’s a fantastic opportunity for people to vent at the Church or at Christians in a safe and accepting environment.
  5. It’s a good way of getting folks interested in RCIA - which happened in our Church. That was exciting!
  6. It provides people who have been on a course with the opportunity to help out on subsiquent courses - in other words it develops people’s ministry and encourages mission - a circular process if you like.
The course is far from perfect and many catholics in this country have criticised it. This may be to do with the videos - Nicky Gumble is a decent speaker but he just grates with some people.

Most churches use the DVDs because it’s easier as many do not have the skills to talk publicly themselves. Using the DVDs definitely has a positive side to it in that participants can rip shreds out of Nicky Gumble (and many do!) and criticise the talks without the danger of comeback - certainly none from me!
What I have found is that many people who have a problem with Christianity simply want to vent at someone - it doesn’t matter who - after which they are much more open to hear all that juicy teaching you are dying to launch on them!

If you have a problem with the content you can ‘edit’ videos, or cut entire talks to make it shorter. If you are blessed with a great speaker you can get them to do the talks themselves. If you find the content too ‘protestant’ then you can get your kerygma from the General Directory for Catechesis. However, I think that ALPHA’s strength is in the values that underpin it, and participants might not remember a word of any talk but they’ll remember that YOU were a friend to them.

At it’s core, the ALPHA course is a place for people to come and TALK and, most importantly, to be LISTENED TO. If we have an agenda to correct every ‘heretical’ comment they come out with then they are less likely to come back. Save the catechesis for when they really want to learn it - we Catholics can Evagelize too, right! 😉
 
Hi guys,

2 years ago our parish ran a 6 week course using resources from the following web site

faithcafe.org/Default.htm

It is made in Britain, and is designed for Catholics, after the popularity of the Alpha courses.

I enjoyed it heaps.

I thought it was going to become as popular within Catholicism as Alpha is within Protestantism, but it obviously didnt happen, as it seems America dont know of it yet.
 
kellie said:
Hi guys,

2 years ago our parish ran a 6 week course using resources from the following web site

faithcafe.org/Default.htm

It is made in Britain, and is designed for Catholics, after the popularity of the Alpha courses.

I enjoyed it heaps.

I thought it was going to become as popular within Catholicism as Alpha is within Protestantism, but it obviously didnt happen, as it seems America dont know of it yet.
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It problably is known (about) but some folks have a different agenda it would seem…I mean GOSH why use a Catholic Program in a Catholic Church…when a Protestant Program is so much better to use in the Church:rolleyes:
 
Karin said:
It problably is known (about) but some folks have a different agenda it would seem…I mean GOSH why use a Catholic Program in a Catholic Church…when a Protestant Program is so much better to use in the Church:rolleyes:
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Yup. We should all return to the Baltimore Cateshism. Then kids and converts will actually know their faith.

I always refer to the Baltimore Catechism when I teach my catechism class. And I have the approval of my priest to do so.
 
paramedicgirl said:
Yup. We should all return to the Baltimore Cateshism. Then kids and converts will actually know their faith.

I always refer to the Baltimore Catechism when I teach my catechism class. And I have the approval of my priest to do so.
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You mean you actually want us to know our faith:eek: 😉
How dare you suggest such a thing:eek: 😉
 
I just stumbled upon this thread.

To be honest, I’m a little surprised at the opposition. I spent 4 years helping to run Alpha courses for groups of people who, over the years, included nominal Catholics, Protestants (of various hues), Buddhists, New agers, Athiests, and, on one memorable occasion, a gnostic.

It isn’t perfect. But, for me, it got people talking about faith - really talking, and that, in itself, was a good thing. People didn’t feel obliged to toe the party line, or be defensive, or say they believed things that they didn’t. I saw, on one occassion, a Catholic saying she felt the church was wrong to pray for the dead, and a Protestant group member proceeded to explain where the teaching came from.

My experience of groups, though, was that 90% of the time, people were more interested in coming to a point where they believed that Jesus actually existed, and that the gospels could be trusted, than any more intricate theological issues. For those folk, some of whom had been attending churches for decades, a chance to say ‘I just don’t believe he’s really there’, was a huge step, and a chance to begin looking at their faith in a real way. They didn’t need people to tell them ‘this is what you must believe’, they needed a chance to articulate their concerns.

The course doesn’t seek to make Catholics/Protestants. It seeks to get people to take Christ seriously - and actively encourages churches to run follow up courses to tailor it to their own circumstances. And it makes it easy for churches to do it - Alpha is as much about the package - there are excellent resources, and a clear structure for each evening - than about the talks themselves. Frankly, I’d rather see some attempt at helping people make faith alive, than none at all. Tis better to light a candle, even if it flickers and smokes, than to curse the darkness.

Oh, and btw, I’m not sure you can say contemplative prayer is Catholic prayer - firstly because contemplative prayer predates the reformation and is therefore a shared heritage (there are Anglican Benedictines for example), and secondly because, if you read George Fox, or any of the Mennonite or Quaker writers, or Wesley, there is plenty of the Contemplative there.
 
As you all know, my Parish does use Alpha - I can’t tell you how they use it but they use it. I can tell you that once Alpha is over, those who want to continue go on to RCIA and there they start using the CCC and videos of Fr. Corapi among others for learning about Catholicism specifically. They talk about Humanae Vitae, the importance of Confession, who Mary is and why she can be called the Mediatrix (I know all this because my daughter’s best friend converted and they both had to attend these classes so I got to hear about it).

I can also tell you that we have a fair number of Vocations coming from our Parish now. Of the current Seminarians in our Archdiocese, over half are from our Parish. We also have a number of young women entering consecrated lives as either Sisters or Nuns.

Our CCD program requires our children to know the answers to certain questions a la Baltimore Catechism. We have chosen to split the Sacraments of Reconciliation and First Communion into two separate years with Reconciliation being in second grade and First Communion in third grade (you bet we have that in the right order!).

Our Confirmation classes are a two year process - not uncommon as I understand it. Those students have to answer their own fair share of questions too.

So can you all see why I am not as concerned about our use of Alpha? I did question it when we it was first brought in but there has to come a point when you trust your Pastor and he went to the semnars on the program and he agreed it was a good thing.

BTW, we also have many adult catechesis opportunities too. We currently have a class on the “Introduction to the CCC” by our Pastor. Our education in this Parish does not end with Confrimation or the completion of RCIA :D.

Brenda V.
 
When I went through RCIA, it was described as a course on the catholic for converts, and for those seeking to deepen or renew their faith.

Then the Alpha signs started popping up outside our parish… My immediate thought was “Isn’t this a redundancy?”

I think that RCIA should encourage Catholics who want to learn more about their faith to join, as they would an Alpha Group.

If I’m not mistaken, Alpha was also started by an anglican, and their version of the Nicene Creed is the same as the Orthodox one. Why would a catholic want anything to do with that?
 
plenty of past threads discussing ALPHA, unless they got zapped in the crash.

Alpha is not a course for Catholics, number one, it is a course for persons who have had virtually no exposure to the Christian message, are unchurched and have been moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit to look for answers to basic questions about Jesus and Christian belief.

to criticize it for not presenting a precise of Catholic dogma is like criticizing the owner’s manual of my Dodge truck for not explaining how to build a truck manufacturing factory.

Alpha does present what it claims to present, a basic introduction to the Gospel and the major points of the Apostle’s Creed, the profession of faith of all credal Christian denominations. It is hoped that after completing that course, including a retreat in which the participant is encouraged and assisted in being open to the further grace and action of the Holy Spirit, that person will seek to know more through the good offices of the church which offered the course.

If that Church is a Catholic church, the next course should be one on specifically Catholic teaching. We begin with Touching Jesus through the Church and Sacraments, by Marcello D’Ambrosio, and 8-part, orthodox presentation of Catholic doctrine.

This process corresponds to pre-evangelization, the inquiry period that precedes RCIA, the formal process of instruction and initiation into the Catholic faith that hopefully follows first contact with the basic truths of the Gospel and Creed. So there is no logic in criticizing it because it does not replace RCIA, it is not meant to.

may I suggest critics do what our parishioners did when Alpha was first introduced (before I came here), which is take the course, and the follow-up and find out what it really is, rather than rely on reports of others or prejudice.

as the person who receives people into the RCIA process when they do decide to pursue further education and formation, I can attest that Alpha is in excellent introduction for the inquirere and seeker, as long as a component, like Touching Jesus or Alpha for Catholics, which provides the Catholic answer to basic questions which arise, is included. It does and has bring many persons, including lapsed Catholics, the unbaptized who are hungry for more to the Church for teaching and sacraments.
 
smok_wawelski said:
When I went through RCIA, it was described as a course on the catholic for converts, and for those seeking to deepen or renew their faith.

Then the Alpha signs started popping up outside our parish… My immediate thought was “Isn’t this a redundancy?”

I think that RCIA should encourage Catholics who want to learn more about their faith to join, as they would an Alpha Group.

If I’m not mistaken, Alpha was also started by an anglican, and their version of the Nicene Creed is the same as the Orthodox one. Why would a catholic want anything to do with that?
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It’s important to note that a broadly kerigmatic course like this, has yet to be designed “by the Church” - RCIAs main thrust is, but not exclusively, catechetical. The great thing about being a Catholic is that one can use all the good and holy things that other denominations have to offer, and even other faiths, and retain one’s integrity. I think that this is a case in point.

As regards the Nicene Creed, I think I heard that the Pope recites ‘their’ version when he attends Eastern Catholic rites - in addition, I believe he has said that the creed without the filioque is a valid expression of Catholic faith.

Peace 🙂
 
puzzleannie said:
plenty of past threads discussing ALPHA, unless they got zapped in the crash.
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Not really. Since you read the original post, you’ll know that it is the topic that got me coming here to CAF. There were no alpha discussions then so I started one. Got 2 or 3 answers and had to look elsewhere. Are you saying I should not have posted this thread?
puzzleannie said:
to criticize it for not presenting a precise of Catholic dogma is like criticizing the owner’s manual of my Dodge truck for not explaining how to build a truck manufacturing factory.
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Since you read the original post, you’ll know that I was criticizing my church and not Alpha.
puzzleannie said:
Alpha is not a course for Catholics,
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That’s why I was annoyed with my church for presenting this 3 or 4 times as the greatest thing since sliced bread.
puzzleannie said:
Alpha does present what it claims to present,
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So why the sarcastic remarks about the dodge truck?
puzzleannie said:
may I suggest critics do what our parishioners did when Alpha was first introduced (before I came here), which is take the course, and the follow-up and find out what it really is, rather than rely on reports of others or prejudice.
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You may suggest what you wish, but life is short and time is scarce and most of all, I’m head of a family with a wife and two kids watching my example. I think it is more important for them to see me going to adoration or saying the rosary, than having pasta, watching a video and saying, “God is good!” I had that for 12 years.
puzzleannie said:
I can attest that Alpha is in excellent introduction for the inquirere and seeker, as long as a component, like Touching Jesus or Alpha for Catholics, which provides the Catholic answer to basic questions which arise, is included. It does and has bring many persons, including lapsed Catholics, the unbaptized who are hungry for more to the Church for teaching and sacraments.
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I’m sure it does some good. As I tried to make clear in the original post, I’m not knocking Alpha for what it is, I’m just not happy with my church for blindly jumping on the band wagon. There are no follow up courses.

Of course, if none of your remarks were aimed at me, disregard all of the above:)

I have days when I swear I have a bull’s eye painted on me and people are taking shots.:eek:
 
smok_wawelski said:
When I went through RCIA, it was described as a course on the catholic for converts, and for those seeking to deepen or renew their faith.

Then the Alpha signs started popping up outside our parish… My immediate thought was “Isn’t this a redundancy?”

I think that RCIA should encourage Catholics who want to learn more about their faith to join, as they would an Alpha Group.

If I’m not mistaken, Alpha was also started by an anglican, and their version of the Nicene Creed is the same as the Orthodox one. Why would a catholic want anything to do with that?
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Am I one of the few people here who has actually sat alpha and understands it is not a “protestants only” course? It is a general course designed to teach the combined basics of Christian belief. Courses like RCIA can actually build on Alpha which is a potential starting point. Yes it isn’t perfect.

What people must understand here is that Nicky Gumbel comes from a church of diversity. The Anglican church itself is either of the Anglo-Catholic form(with some Anglicans accepting complete Catholic Doctrines, with the exception of alliegince to Rome) and Anglo-Evangelicals who are essentially protestant 100%(in that they don’t follow any Catholic beliefs except the ones the Anglican Church has made universal, such as their heaven and hell doctrine) By nature his own church encompasses a wide range of people with differing doctrines.

He has created a course which has allowed many non-christians to come to any of the christian faiths by allowing them to have a basic understanding of General christian beliefs. He does not touch on any Catholic doctrine, because his course is by it’s nature not a specific course on any specific church, only on the doctrines every single church actually shares.

He talks about how to pray and why we need to pray, but does not actually say “prayers should only be made to god” because he would also be alienating his own church, with it’s Anglo-Catholics.

He does not say “the bible is the only source of truth” but he shows it’s importance and “How we should read it”(That sounds hostile, but he is simply talking about a reading plan, not some anti-catholic pro “sola Scriptua” argument like might be thought by any catholic confronted with the lesson’s title)

Anglo-Catholics believe in the “Real Presence” too, so Gumbel dances around the issue not wanting to get into specifics, simply saying why we should celebrate the last supper without getting into a debate of “is it jesus in the cup?”

If anything the Alpha course is a “non-alienating Generalized Catchecism for the Anglican Church”, but in being so, can actually be usefully to all Christians because it is basically a course about “Shared” beliefs.
 
Great post by Puzzleannie as always 😉

It sounds to me that this program has some very fine merit and if used correctly could really bring people into the faith or bring them back.
 
max37 said:
Not Of course, if none of your remarks were aimed at me, disregard all of the above:)

I have days when I swear I have a bull’s eye painted on me and people are taking shots.:eek:
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welcome to the forums, and welcome home, I should have said that first

since you are new here I will repeat what I have said many times before I respond to thread titles and to posts, I do not respond to persons, and I do not make personal attacks, I attack posts that are in error or ideas that are mistaken. What we see here is the written word, not the person, that that is how I am responding.

I merely mentioned past Alpha threads as a source for info because the contained some insights from people who have actual experience with Alpha.

My church offers all kinds of programs which do not interest me at this time. I do not “walk out” when that happens.
 
anamchara said:
Great post by Puzzleannie as always 😉

It sounds to me that this program has some very fine merit and if used correctly could really bring people into the faith or bring them back.
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and the flip side…when they are not used properly you have misinformed folks or your drive people away:(
 
Max37,

Have you volunteered to work with the small faith sharing groups in your parish? Have you requested to join the group that investigates the various options [materials] for small faith sharing groups? Our parish requests parishioners to join parish staff and research the vaious materials and programs, and this group makes a selection/recommendation.

We investigate the ‘meat’ of the materials, the cost, training facilitators, advertizing, organizing the groups and follow up after the end of the sessions. Our parish has had Lenten faith sharing groups for over 15 years. That is a lot of volunteer hours spent putting the sessions in place.

Do you support your parish with weekly contributions that allow for the funding of small faith sharing groups? Even though most of the groups meet in homes there is still the cost for training materials and individual paricipant materials, some very good programs are economical, some less desirable ones are expensive, but there are costs associated with every one. In a large parish of over 2000 families, even a relatively small individual cost cn add up fast.

It is easy to walk away and easy to complain about the programs offered by your parish. it is much harder is to become involved in the process and be the person or persons responsible for the choices and ddeall with those who don’t “care” for the “this or that”.

I was part of the curriculumn choicce for our 2007 Lenten season. We started looking at materials last October. Sure I coud have spent those evenings at home but I was at church reading booklets. And that in addition to RCIA Team, Pastoral Council, Liturgy Team etc.

Call and volunteer, I am sure that they would be glad to have your (name removed by moderator)ut. Some over taxed volunteer will probably bless you for comong forward so they can have an evening home and not be confused with paid staff at the parish!

Stepping off my soap box…
 
I forgot to say that I have never looked at this Alpha program but I have reviewed many others, mostly Catholic. I cannot offer any insight as to its worthyness. It may be that it was tried and found to be successful where other programs were not…Perhaps it has an easy to follow leader book…
 
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