And We Wonder Why

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I would not take my kids to certain restaurants or functionc because they are not kid friendly. Mass in not kid unfriendly but for those of us with very active kids it can be a chore. It is easier and wiser for my 2 year-old to stay home and start coming to Mass when she is able. She is not in school for the same reason and in the old days non-school age children did not go to Mass. their obligation starts at age 7. My 8 year-old comes every Sunday but his sisters stay home most Sundays.

I have to go pick my son from CCD and go to an Advent dinner at my wife’s church.
 
We sit in the front row with 4 kids from 14 to 2. The two year old eats cheerios during the first 1/2 of mass and quietly “reads”, “magna-doodles” ,or loses his cool (and has to be taken out)during the second.

For those interested:
-My wife and I aren’t “Cafeteria” Catholics because Noah eats fruit loops in church. There is no sign in our church forbidding food, and we don’t leave tidbits for others to step or sit on.
-WE believe Mass is to be celebrated as a family. Leaving one at home and attending seperately is done ONLY during sickness.
-My kids by anyones standards are respectful and well mannered; yet we allow quiet “toys” and “snacks” to keep immature minds (2 and 4 year old) busy while they get used to attending mass with their family.
-Discipline is administered as needed in the vestibule when it’s necessary to take one out.

I’d love for someone to tell me a better way to make a two year old sit still, be quiet, and stay content while getting acclimated to attending mass as a family/congregation. (Rhetorical request, I’m just fine with my style. You all will have to ask Jesus for the grace to “tough it out” if you sit behind me). Consider the fact that he might be asking you to work on a virtue or two if my family is so distracting that you can’t concentrate on God’s greatest gift to us because of a cheerio munching 2 year old.

For the most part, I’ve seen lots of platitudes but no logical solutions.

God Bless you all while you struggle with this. I’m going to see if my wife and I can’t create a few more distractions before the bio clock runs out!
 
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TZiggy:
We sit in the front row with 4 kids from 14 to 2. The two year old eats cheerios during the first 1/2 of mass and quietly “reads”, “magna-doodles” ,or loses his cool (and has to be taken out)during the second.

For those interested:
-My wife and I aren’t “Cafeteria” Catholics because Noah eats fruit loops in church. There is no sign in our church forbidding food, and we don’t leave tidbits for others to step or sit on.
-WE believe Mass is to be celebrated as a family. Leaving one at home and attending seperately is done ONLY during sickness.
-My kids by anyones standards are respectful and well mannered; yet we allow quiet “toys” and “snacks” to keep immature minds (2 and 4 year old) busy while they get used to attending mass with their family.
-Discipline is administered as needed in the vestibule when it’s necessary to take one out.

I’d love for someone to tell me a better way to make a two year old sit still, be quiet, and stay content while getting acclimated to attending mass as a family/congregation. (Rhetorical request, I’m just fine with my style. You all will have to ask Jesus for the grace to “tough it out” if you sit behind me). Consider the fact that he might be asking you to work on a virtue or two if my family is so distracting that you can’t concentrate on God’s greatest gift to us because of a cheerio munching 2 year old.

For the most part, I’ve seen lots of platitudes but no logical solutions.

God Bless you all while you struggle with this. I’m going to see if my wife and I can’t create a few more distractions before the bio clock runs out!
Sorry, no sale. It’s horribly wrong to have your kids eat and play with toys during Mass. There may be no sign prohibiting kids from eating or playing during Mass, but their parents would have to be bankrupt of all common sense to not know that it is wrong to eat or play during the Mass. Sadly you compound that by sitting up front where everyone else has to watch the sideshow. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Your comments are very interesting. This thread obviously hit a nerve and based on the tenor of your retort I would suggest that you know you are wrong, but you choose to take the easy way out by appeasing your kids. That’s your choice – just do try to sell it here as the right way to act at Mass.

You asked for some concrete ideas. If I were you I would ensure my kids were well rested and well fed (no sugar!) BEFORE Mass. You might even make the effort to ensure they get a touch of exercise before Mass to settle them down. That might cut into your time, but that’s the way it’s supposed to be.

Teach your kids about the Mass and the church surroundings and meanings. If you don’t know yourself, pick-up a book or ask someone for some help.

Let them do the fun things like lighting votive candles or holding a Rosary. Get your sons involved as altar servers or even as ushers – nothing like responsibility to keep one’s attention. Offer to bring-up the gifts as a family. Make sure your kids have met and recognize your pastor.

Plan something “fun” after Mass (and post-Mass prayers) like a fancy brekfast or tasty milk and doughnuts. Bring your pastor along once in a while – he’ll love it.

Kids are our future and they require a tremendous investment of time and effort. Somehow I think past generations were more cognizant of this fact.
 
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AltarMan:
Plan something “fun” after Mass (and post-Mass prayers) like a fancy brekfast or tasty milk and doughnuts. Bring your pastor along once in a while – he’ll love it.
You know what? A couple of years ago I actually ran into a family from my parish at a local donut shop after Mass one Sunday. I got to chatting with the mom while in line, and she confessed that this was their daughters’ reward for behaving in church. I can’t remember a time when I’ve seen either girl act up at Mass.

Our parish doesn’t have a cry room. Sure, sometimes a parent will get up and walk around the back with a fidgety toddler, or will carry a crying baby to the vestibule or outside, but overall the kids are amazingly well behaved. A random squawk here or there is the most I usually hear out of the little ones. I don’t know if their parents see it this way (from what I can tell, parents always think that their children are the worst), but the view from this childless 27-year-old’s perspective is that a lot of them are doing something right- and rarely if ever do I see food or toys come out. 👍
 
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TZiggy:
We sit in the front row with 4 kids from 14 to 2. The two year old eats cheerios during the first 1/2 of mass and quietly “reads”, “magna-doodles” ,or loses his cool (and has to be taken out)during the second.
I didn’t think it was possible for kids that young to sit through Mass without toys and food. However, my current parish, and the loads of large families with children proved me wrong. I was shocked to see a pew full of children, many very young like yours, and they sit quietly, looking forward and are not running or moving around. Believe it or not, there is no one standing there with a switch either. In parishes with a large traditional and orthodox base, you will find lots of kids, mostly without toys and food, and you will find them sitting quietly, standing quietly with the rest, and kneeling with the rest.

Observing one very young mother, with what appeared to be her first child revealed the secret to getting kids to sit quietly through Mass (and at Grotto that means at least 1.5 hours for the Latin Novus Ordo). I’ll tell the story of how I witnessed her and other parents, consciously or subconsciously teaching their children from infancy.

I’m sitting there midway back in the Church and in front of me is this mother with a child no more than 4-5 months old. During the Prayers of the Faithful, the baby kept tapping her mother’s face. However, mom did not respond to the child. Rather, she kept her head down and remained still, simply not giving in to the baby looking for attention. Then I realized, she was teaching the baby an important lesson from a very young age: This is not your hour, it is God’s hour and we must give our attention to Him. I quickly scanned a few other parents with babies, some walking in the back of the Church. I noticed something they all had in common. None were paying any particular attention to their babies, cradled in their arms. Rather, they focused on the Mass with their heads down, or looking at the altar, but none were entertaining their babies with looks, “goo-goo” faces, or anything remotely similar. Obviously, this was at a time when I was still not focused on the Mass myself, which is how I became so observant.

In the following weeks, I began to pay attention to children of different ages at the 9:30 Latin Novus Ordo. A family of 5 sat in front of me one day and in the mix were a 3 and a 4 year old (approximated). Now, at this age, they have a mind of their own and want to wander and not sit still. However, this parent brought back memories of how my mom and dad treated me at that age in Church (as young as I was, it was deja vu when I observed this). The children were all gently made to stand with the rest of the congregation. They obliged the motion of the parent to stand and faced forward. As young children at that age have a very short attention span, it didn’t take long for the 3 year old to turn and have her back to the altar. However, the father gently turned her around and pointed to the altar, then continued to focus there himself. He had to repeat this several times before she stayed focused. At no time was he nasty or impatient. He simply just kept turning her until she finally realized that she may as well just face the front.

Once they hit 5 years old in that parish, those kids are as good as gold, sitting easily through a 1.5 hour Mass - attentively, and without toys or food. Once the boys hit 8 and have made Holy Communion, they are serving at the altar in a corp of about 60 boys/men.

I’ve never seen a better disciplined community of people and so highly reverent. Now, there are some exceptions, but the bulk of families are as I described with regards to behavior of their children. And, Grotto has tons of very large families, many of which are over 5 kids and up. We have many families of 10-12 and one that has 18. All are happy, decently dressed and spend plenty of time at church functions.

The books on the Mass truly belong outside of the Mass. That is when instruction should take place - maybe in the parent’s home just before Mass or even after, or the night before. The lesson parents need to be teaching during Mass is that, “this is God’s hour”, as opposed to reinforcing the idea that Mass is for our entertainment through the use of “props”.

If it doesn’t start from infancy, then yeah - you may be stuck with children that need toys and may need to wander. However, if dealt with right out of the shoot, the baby will soon learn that during Mass they don’t get attention and food. Think of all the parents you see on programs like Nanny 911 who cannot get their kids to bed and work for hours to make it happen. What does Nanny teach in every situation? Give them no attention after putting them in that bed when they look for it and eventually they stop seeking it.
 
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There may be no sign prohibiting kids from eating or playing during Mass, but their parents would have to be bankrupt of all common sense to not know that it is wrong to eat or play during the Mass
I can appreciate the warm and welcoming “tenor” of this comment.
Sadly you compound that by sitting up front where everyone else has to watch the sideshow. You should be ashamed of yourself
Who said there was a show? A two year old sitting in a pew is not seen by anyone! We sit up front as a way to focus the 2 and 4 year old on what is taking place on the alter. For the most part it works. Your lack of information and jumping to conclusions adds to fuel that feeds “my” tenor.
Kids are our future and they require a tremendous investment of time and effort. Somehow I think past generations were more cognizant of this fact
.

HOLY COW! You have got to be kidding! I’ll give it to you that there may be a better way, but I have to tell you alterman, the condescending comments, and sanctimonious handwringing I originally read in this post is what set my “tenor”. Aside from a few suggestions that I will try, and a few that make me wonder if you even have kids, your follow up didn’t stray far from your original post.

Matthew 23:4
They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

Our beloved church is misunderstood, persecuted and shrinking in the West. Families with young children are leaving the Catholic Church in droves for Evangelical, feel good churches…

AND WE WONDER WHY!
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
I didn’t think it was possible for kids that young to sit through Mass without toys and food. However, my current parish, and the loads of large families with children proved me wrong. I was shocked to see a pew full of children, many very young like yours, and they sit quietly, looking forward and are not running or moving around. Believe it or not, there is no one standing there with a switch either. In parishes with a large traditional and orthodox base, you will find lots of kids, mostly without toys and food, and you will find them sitting quietly, standing quietly with the rest, and kneeling with the rest.

Observing one very young mother, with what appeared to be her first child revealed the secret to getting kids to sit quietly through Mass (and at Grotto that means at least 1.5 hours for the Latin Novus Ordo). I’ll tell the story of how I witnessed her and other parents, consciously or subconsciously teaching their children from infancy.

I’m sitting there midway back in the Church and in front of me is this mother with a child no more than 4-5 months old. During the Prayers of the Faithful, the baby kept tapping her mother’s face. However, mom did not respond to the child. Rather, she kept her head down and remained still, simply not giving in to the baby looking for attention. Then I realized, she was teaching the baby an important lesson from a very young age: This is not your hour, it is God’s hour and we must give our attention to Him. I quickly scanned a few other parents with babies, some walking in the back of the Church. I noticed something they all had in common. None were paying any particular attention to their babies, cradled in their arms. Rather, they focused on the Mass with their heads down, or looking at the altar, but none were entertaining their babies with looks, “goo-goo” faces, or anything remotely similar. Obviously, this was at a time when I was still not focused on the Mass myself, which is how I became so observant.

In the following weeks, I began to pay attention to children of different ages at the 9:30 Latin Novus Ordo. A family of 5 sat in front of me one day and in the mix were a 3 and a 4 year old (approximated). Now, at this age, they have a mind of their own and want to wander and not sit still. However, this parent brought back memories of how my mom and dad treated me at that age in Church (as young as I was, it was deja vu when I observed this). The children were all gently made to stand with the rest of the congregation. They obliged the motion of the parent to stand and faced forward. As young children at that age have a very short attention span, it didn’t take long for the 3 year old to turn and have her back to the altar. However, the father gently turned her around and pointed to the altar, then continued to focus there himself. He had to repeat this several times before she stayed focused. At no time was he nasty or impatient. He simply just kept turning her until she finally realized that she may as well just face the front.

Once they hit 5 years old in that parish, those kids are as good as gold, sitting easily through a 1.5 hour Mass - attentively, and without toys or food. Once the boys hit 8 and have made Holy Communion, they are serving at the altar in a corp of about 60 boys/men.

I’ve never seen a better disciplined community of people and so highly reverent. Now, there are some exceptions, but the bulk of families are as I described with regards to behavior of their children. And, Grotto has tons of very large families, many of which are over 5 kids and up. We have many families of 10-12 and one that has 18. All are happy, decently dressed and spend plenty of time at church functions.

The books on the Mass truly belong outside of the Mass. That is when instruction should take place - maybe in the parent’s home just before Mass or even after, or the night before. The lesson parents need to be teaching during Mass is that, “this is God’s hour”, as opposed to reinforcing the idea that Mass is for our entertainment through the use of “props”.

If it doesn’t start from infancy, then yeah - you may be stuck with children that need toys and may need to wander. However, if dealt with right out of the shoot, the baby will soon learn that during Mass they don’t get attention and food. Think of all the parents you see on programs like Nanny 911 who cannot get their kids to bed and work for hours to make it happen. What does Nanny teach in every situation? Give them no attention after putting them in that bed when they look for it and eventually they stop seeking it.
God that was beautiful to read…
 
I should mention that all of this observation was taking place at a time in my life when I was finally emerging from the realization that I needed to be focused on the Mass and not making goo-goo faces at the baby in front of me.

There was a time when I was so glad a familiy of kids would sit in front of me. Then I realized the entertainment I was after and saw how it took away from God.

It took one set of parents to give me a dirty look as I made faces at their kids during Mass for me to realize I was contradicting what they were trying to teach their children - that this was God’s hour, not theirs.

:o
 
Diane,

I agree with Altar Man. Your post was beautiful.

I think everyone who posted ought to go back and read what they wrote.
Would you call someone a “picnic parent” to their face? If not, why would you post it?
Would you question someones parenting ability and devotion to Christ and his church if you were sitting at the table with him and his family? Would you do it without even know him? If so, you need to examine your conscience.

For me, the end game is teaching my kids reverence, respect and love for the church. My 14 and 11 year old are perfect examples of faith filled children. I’m pleased with the outcome, (and alterman would concur if he met them). My 4 and 2 year olds are perfect examples of…well, 4 and 2 year olds.
We’re not a spectacle at church, and I still wonder… what’s the fuss?

You said it best with your style Diane. I’ll mull this over for a while. It’s our job to gently guide fellow believers, not mock them and beat them over the head for thier effort.

How will we ever attract people to our faith, HOLY MOTHER CHURCH, if we don’t behave as Christ taught us?

God Bless you.
 
I have to admit, I had no solutions to the problems of loose kids and I remember all too well reserving the midway-back pews for my brother and his two little ones so they could move around. Then I spent my entire Mass “adoring” the kids instead of Jesus in the Eucharist.

:o

It came over me so suddenly when that baby kept tapping her mom’s face and mom didn’t respond. Suddenly, the solution seemed simple. If the children get attention during this one hour, they will always expect it. As they get older, they may expect entertainment in other ways within the Mass.

We adults, and I was just as guilty, often mistakenly see the Mass as some kind of production.

I think the lesson for all is to give God his due during just this one hour. When we spend that hour fully worshipping God in the Mass, we can then let the graces flow from that into the time that is meant to be with those we love.
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
We adults, and I was just as guilty, often mistakenly see the Mass as some kind of production. QUOTE]

But you see Diane, I’ve never felt that way. The overarching problem isn’t necessarily the kids, but our (not just parents) reaction to them. This isn’t a revelation to me. The dillema is how to acclimate your children to the sanctuary, with little distraction to the rest of the congregation.

The first step is to keep them occupied at a young age, and get them used to sitting still and quiet for an hour in church. THAT’s HUGE FOR A TWO YEAR OLD! The second is to introduce appropriate church behavior. The third is to expect church behavior, and settle for nothing less. By five years old, both my older children were following mass and could answer questions about sermon afterwords.

That’s, I guess what set me off early on in this post. I achieved my goal as a parent, yet my methods were being lambasted and my faith questioned.

I still go back to the fact that we need to be cognizant of how we represent the church we purport to love and revere. We may be pushing those without a strong faith away before it has a chance to grow. What a shame that would be.
 
Consider the fact that he might be asking you to work on a virtue or two if my family is so distracting that you can’t concentrate on God’s greatest gift to us because of a cheerio munching 2 year old.
:clapping:

I love it!!!

Mainly b/c I have a child that I am teaching to follow and participate in Mass, but who can still be…well, a child. She sometimes has her own version of liturgical dance during the “Alleluia”. 🙂

But I also love it b/c at one point several years ago I was really getting back into the church, etc. and was very irate about kids “distracting” me during Mass. At some point I realized that I choose what to focus my attention on. My goal is to learn to pray constantly, so I have to learn to overcome distractions - in Mass and outside of Mass. My goal is not to completely separate myself from “the world” and create a pristine, silent abode to worship God, but to worship him in the midst of life.

THAT BEING SAID, I do not advocate kids being allowed to run and talk and act wild during Mass - which seems to happen a lot in the cry rooms - heck, it’s not limited to kids - the adults have conversations in a normal voice about everything from their kids to clothes, etc. I can, however, sympathize more now that I’m a parent to the occasional, unintentional break in the decorum. 🙂
 
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TZiggy:
I think everyone who posted ought to go back and read what they wrote.
Would you call someone a “picnic parent” to their face? If not, why would you post it?
Would you question someones parenting ability and devotion to Christ and his church if you were sitting at the table with him and his family? Would you do it without even know him? If so, you need to examine your conscience.
I am the person who wrote about “Picnic Parents”. I wrote this before you posted. I see that you are personalizing my posts.
We’re not a spectacle at church, and I still wonder… what’s the fuss?
I was listining to a Homily recently. The story was told of a priest who was lamenting why our church has so much money and yet does not use more of it’s assets to take care of the poor while speaking with Bishop Fulton Sheen.
Bp. Sheen simply asked the priest, “What have you done?”
It turned out that the priest was stealing out of the collection basket, and was actually rationalizing his theft.
So my question to you is, “What have you done?”
Have you seen someone disturbed by your child? Do you feel that your child would appreciate the Holy Mass more if given time to mature at home?
How will we ever attract people to our faith, HOLY MOTHER CHURCH, if we don’t behave as Christ taught us?
Please reread this post from a friend of mine…
On Sunday (11/27), we were in the cry room as usual, but it was more crowded than we’ve ever seen before. There were lots of 2-3 year old kids sort-of running wild, each carrying a small container of food. Our son is allergic to gluten, which is contained in, oh, just about everything.
One of the little guys was crawling under the pews, where the air vents are located. He was eating some sort of ultra-stinky crackers - so stinky, in fact, that our middle daughter was gagging and nearly threw up. Our son started sneezing almost immediately, and got a nice, splotchy red rash on his face. Yup, he had a reaction to the gluten in the air. And the physical reaction is only half of it. Typically, after an infraction, he regresses into severely autistic behaviors (hand flapping, inattention, toe walking, short temper, non-compliant).<<

What do you say to this boy and his parents? Is it their personal cross to bear or a lesson for them to learn?
What is Christlike in this situation? What would our Holy Mother Church say?
 
I love it!!!

Mainly b/c I have a child that I am teaching to follow and participate in Mass, **but who can still be…well, a child. She sometimes has her own version of liturgical dance during the “Alleluia”. 🙂 **

But I also love it b/c at one point several years ago I was really getting back into the church, etc. and was very irate about kids “distracting” me during Mass. At some point I realized that I choose what to focus my attention on. My goal is to learn to pray constantly, so I have to learn to overcome distractions - in Mass and outside of Mass. My goal is not to completely separate myself from “the world” and create a pristine, silent abode to worship God, but to worship him in the midst of life.

THAT BEING SAID, I do not advocate kids being allowed to run and talk and act wild during Mass - which seems to happen a lot in the cry rooms - heck, it’s not limited to kids - the adults have conversations in a normal voice about everything from their kids to clothes, etc. I can, however, sympathize more now that I’m a parent to the occasional, unintentional break in the decorum. 🙂
[/quote]

I thank God you don’t attend the Mass that I do, “Alleluia.”

Your goal during the Mass SHOULD be to seperate yourself from the world. The very fact that you want to bring the world into the Mass is problematic.
 
I thank God you don’t attend the Mass that I do, “Alleluia.”
🙂
Your goal during the Mass SHOULD be to seperate yourself from the world. The very fact that you want to bring the world into the Mass is problematic.
I should have worded that differently. I meant that I want to worship God despite any distractions that occur during Mass - or anywhere else for that matter.
 
Those darn cheerios sure make a crunch when kids bite into them! I’ve had the misfortune of sitting behind children who were given crunchy foods to munch on during mass… it’s not pleasant for others to hear. Please, if parents want to allow their kids to munch during mass, at least give them non-smelly, non-messy, “silent” foods. That said, I have to wonder why children that age are even given food during mass… if they’ve missed a meal or a snack, feed them in the car on the way there.

I’ve had 5 kids, and Mass was never a time for munching. I don’t believe in throwing food at my kids if they get bored.
 
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Loboto-Me:
I’ve had 5 kids, and Mass was never a time for munching. I don’t believe in throwing food at my kids if they get bored.
One of my biggest bug-a-boos is that no matter where my kids go, someone feels they should feed them.
Even at CCD.

Then people wonder why American kids are fat.
 
I genuinely would like some advice on this topic. I have a very active 14 mo old who we adopted at 6 1/2 mo old. My husband is deployed and I have no family to leave him home with ( I really want him there anyway). My other child is 11, so I am very used to being in the church during Mass. I also understand those around me who would like to concentrate on the Mass without my son yelling, crying, walking, crawling, climbing, etc. I typically take a bottle of milk or water to try to get him to sleep and I know I am going to get slammed for this, but I do bring small crackers for him too. I can stop that though. The only thing is, he gets very sleepy (restless, grumpy) but fights sleep like a tiger. If we go to the cry room, the other kids are running around and keep him from going to sleep as well. My 11 year old now sits by herself and I spend all of Mass looking for a place for my son. I feel like I am not even there anymore. We are building our church so we are celebrating Mass in the parish hall which means one big room and no where to go except outside of the building itself. I am a very hands on parent and my daughter is very well behaved. I had an older daughter with special needs and she was even better behaved in Mass so it’s not that I am afraid to discipline, just that my son is oblivious to discipline. I heard somewhere that God gives special blessings to those who attend Mass when it is difficult to do so. And believe me, by the time Mass is over I am generally in a full sweat, exhausted and usually embarrassed! Any ideas? I would love to feel like I have attended Mass without making it difficult for those around me to feel the same thing.
 
That age is difficult to deal with; I had a real struggle til my child was about 2 - and still off and on have minor problems.

There are plenty of kind souls on here who’ll be more than happy to critique your parenting style, but regarding the Mass, I know exactly how you feel when you say you feel like you haven’t even gone sometimes.

I look at it as if you are making the best effort you can to raise your mind, heart, and soul to God then that is the best you can do. You cannot stop being a mother and ignore your child, so in my mind at least, God accepts the fact that you will not be as “focused” as you would be if you were alone. To me, it would be the same as if you were very sick and praying, but got distracted by the pain, etc. - you were still making 100% effort to the best of your ability.

I personally don’t think God wants us to be saints prior to attending Mass - he wants us as we are now and he wants us to do the best we’re capable of, given our situation.

That, of course, is just my opinion.

Things will get better. 🙂 My prayers are with your husband and your family for the sacrifice you all are making.
 
I got into the habit of also taking my young children to daily Mass which was shorter and easier for them to manage. If they behaved I bought them a treat, if not we went straight home. They learned quickly and Sunday Mass became easier as time went on. The younger children learned from the behaviour of the elder ones as they grew up.
 
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