Anglican Ordinariate (Gathering of Anglicans coming home to Rome)

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jordananglo:
The Anglican Ordinariate is not about debating the Catholic church’s teaching. It is not about importing protestant belief. Those that are not Catholic in belief will not join. Problem solved. Self-selection is the easiest answer.
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That’s it. It has to be voluntary decision and it has to be something they are at peace with. The Catholic Church will not reject anyone who wants to come over but it is always her policy that those who want to, understand what they are in for.
 
I hope you realize how many protestant converts to Catholicism HAVE indeed imported Protestant beliefs into the Church with their conversion through RCIA, etc.? My dad, for example, went through RCIA and, bless him, still doesn’t accept infallibility, doesn’t accept the Church’s teachings on birth control and he has a sola scriptura mindset when we talk. I know plenty of people who converted who don’t buy the whole product but went through RCIA and affirmed everything and go to Mass each week politely rolling their eyes afterward when they hear something they don’t buy. I personally went to the Anglican church, the other direction, when I discovered my beliefs were at a divergence with Catholic thinking because I don’t want to live a lie and put on an act. I want to be true to myself and God. So, we shouldn’t judge people, no, but we should also be realistic and honest that not everyone who converts leaves all their baggage behind. Do I think all these Anglicans are going to suddenly buy indulgences, the treasury of merit, all the universal supremacy and infallibility language and suddenly resolve all their issues that kept them Anglicans all those years? Maybe. Maybe not. I don’t know. I can’t make assumptions either way. Each person is different. To say for sure either way is just not realistic. Saying that those who do not believe fully in Catholicism will not join isn’t realistic either. I have already talked to Anglicans planning to join the ordinariates who have privately told me they don’t buy SEVERAL key Catholic ideas but they’re taking the lesser of two evils approach, which I think is a bad idea. They’ve suddenly just decided to “not let it (insert issue here) bother” them. Women’s ordination and liberal values are scarier to them than infallibility and other issues so they’re going to Rome. But then there are folks who 100% are buying the product.

As far as belief-stretchers, it’s tough to say. I respect BlueGoat’s unwillingness to claim to accept these doctrines and to stay Anglican. She has a more Orthodox (big O) approach to the atonement than I do. I have a more Augustinian/Anselmian view of Atonement so I’m better-suited to Catholicism perhaps than she is. And I have been Catholic for years before. I am considering the “Lord help me in my unbelief” approach that you mention. I’m not buying indulgences and that stuff at this point. Not sure if I ever will. But I buy 8 out of 10 things Catholicism teaches wholeheartedly so I don’t see why they’d be wrong on the other stuff. I think it’s possible I might go back and, if I do, I’ll have to do as you say and just have to have faith in those little “particulars” and suck it up.
jordananglo said:
To the past two posts:

Well, yes. That is the point.

The Anglican Ordinariate is not about debating the Catholic church’s teaching. It is not about importing protestant belief. Those that are not Catholic in belief will not join. Problem solved. Self-selection is the easiest answer.

What it is about, is letting those of us from the Anglo-Catholic tradition, who have been praying for this reunion for many years, to have a place in the Catholic Church.

But concerning belief stretchers, isn’t basically everything we say in the Creed a belief stretcher? Lord I believe, help my unbelief.
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I’m not bringin’ in Bloom! I said I hope GKC doesn’t! LOL…If I have to hear Crashen’s “comprehenible (name removed by moderator)ut” I’m going to puke! 😃
Matthew_Holford said:
If you start bringing in Bloom’s Taxonomy and Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs I’m off.:ouch:
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The video appears to be a church in England. Some Anglicans who consider themselves Anglo Catholics do use the Novus Ordo in England. This Mass is nothing like the Anglican Use Mass.

At this point the decision on how the revised Anglican Use liturgy will be developed has not been decided on yet.

Hopefully it will be universal and will be based on the Anglican Missal with the same Canon used in Anglican Use parishes.

Almost all of the Anglo Catholics coming into the Ordinariate as far as I have observed are totally in line with all Catholics teachings. Of course there will always be a few that might not accept certain teachings and they might leave at some point and go back to a Continuing Anglican group.

If we look around there are many Catholics who don’t accept all of Catholic doctrine, but still call themselves Catholic.

In my opinion whether it is an Anglican or Catholic that can’t accept all, it is because they don’t reallly accept Christ appointing Peter as the rock and that what so ever he (Peter) bound on earth would be bound in Heaven. If one doesn’t personally like certain doctrines and find they can’t become Catholic or accept these doctrines, then they are rejecting Christ’s own words. It all boils down to “authority” and many just can’t accept authority, whether it is in the Church or secular, (many people rebel against their boss and his/her authority).

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
I’m not bringin’ in Bloom! I said I hope GKC doesn’t! LOL…If I have to hear Crashen’s “comprehenible (name removed by moderator)ut” I’m going to puke! 😃
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Hey, it’s weekend :extrahappy:leave this talk out
 
I remember my buddy and I had to take this cheesy multicultural studies course for our upper division Bachelor’s units. The professor was from Chile. When we walked in the first day he said, in a thick accent, “I can sum up the entire course easily. I can sum up in all seriousness what is wrong with this great country—white anglo protestant males.”

My friend and I looked at each other and the eye-rolling commenced…
Matthew_Holford said:
Me too - post-traumatic syndrome the psychologists call it (oh, I forgot we’re avoiding them!)
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
I remember my buddy and I had to take this cheesy multicultural studies course for our upper division Bachelor’s units. The professor was from Chile. When we walked in the first day he said, in a thick accent, “I can sum up the entire course easily. I can sum up in all seriousness what is wrong with this great country—white anglo protestant males.”

My friend and I looked at each other and the eye-rolling commenced…
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Sounds like a first class teacher lacking in all forms of discrimination.

My educational studies professor’s sessions consisted of three topics 1. his favourite football team; 2. his favourite soap opera; and, 3. when he did want to talk about education - how to make kids you didn’t like fail their exams!
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
I’m not bringin’ in Bloom! I said I hope GKC doesn’t! LOL…If I have to hear Crashen’s “comprehenible (name removed by moderator)ut” I’m going to puke! 😃
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Nope. Though I’ve used Bloom’s domains/taxonomy professionally.

Maslow seems like common sense to me.

But I’m not mentioning either. Nope.

GKC
 
The biggest obstacle for Anglicans or anyone else coming into the Church is the lukewarm Catholics, including me, that are already sitting here. 😦
That being said, if there can be an Anglicanorum Coetibus, wonder if there could be a Lutheranorum Coetibus. After all, there is a subset of Lutherans who are fairly “liturgical” and accepting of Christian tradition, which they might now be able to recognize as CATHOLIC tradition. It is getting harder to remain a Protestant nowadays, as denominations such as the dominant Lutheran denomination are throwing overboard a great deal of wisdom that Protestants once took for granted. Lutherans who once said “Bible alone” had assumed that the whole Christian heritage would automatically be preserved, without needing any Magisterium. Now that they are seeing what Sola Scriptura can lead to - secularism - they might be willing to join the Church if they can keep some of their identity and community.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
I hope you realize how many protestant converts to Catholicism HAVE indeed imported Protestant beliefs into the Church with their conversion through RCIA, etc.? My dad, for example, went through RCIA and, bless him, still doesn’t accept infallibility, doesn’t accept the Church’s teachings on birth control and he has a sola scriptura mindset when we talk. I know plenty of people who converted who don’t buy the whole product but went through RCIA and affirmed everything and go to Mass each week politely rolling their eyes afterward when they hear something they don’t buy.
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That’s sort of my experience, but only in hindsight. This comes as no surprise. I know many Catholics, some more devout than others, and not all of they embrace or are familar with church teachings on so many things. RCIA simply cannot teach and test on every single point of the Catechism. That’s unrealisitc IMO. People convert for so many reasons, including just to have a “one faith” household when they marry a Catholic spouse, such as the case with a friend of mine. She is Catholic, but tells me she thinks being Catholic is as much a culture as a religion. She was a Lutheran who married a Spanish decent Catholic. What is the RCC to do with such people? I mean the vast majority of lay Catholics do not even understand what transubstaniation is or what it means, according to some surveys.
I personally went to the Anglican church, the other direction, when I discovered my beliefs were at a divergence with Catholic thinking because I don’t want to live a lie and put on an act. I want to be true to myself and God. So, we shouldn’t judge people, no, but we should also be realistic and honest that not everyone who converts leaves all their baggage behind. Do I think all these Anglicans are going to suddenly buy indulgences, the treasury of merit, all the universal supremacy and infallibility language and suddenly resolve all their issues that kept them Anglicans all those years? Maybe. Maybe not. I don’t know. I can’t make assumptions either way. Each person is different. To say for sure either way is just not realistic. Saying that those who do not believe fully in Catholicism will not join isn’t realistic either. I have already talked to Anglicans planning to join the ordinariates who have privately told me they don’t buy SEVERAL key Catholic ideas but they’re taking the lesser of two evils approach, which I think is a bad idea. They’ve suddenly just decided to “not let it (insert issue here) bother” them. Women’s ordination and liberal values are scarier to them than infallibility and other issues so they’re going to Rome. But then there are folks who 100% are buying the product.
Click to expand...
As far as belief-stretchers, it’s tough to say. I respect BlueGoat’s unwillingness to claim to accept these doctrines and to stay Anglican. She has a more Orthodox (big O) approach to the atonement than I do. I have a more Augustinian/Anselmian view of Atonement so I’m better-suited to Catholicism perhaps than she is. And I have been Catholic for years before. I am considering the “Lord help me in my unbelief” approach that you mention. I’m not buying indulgences and that stuff at this point. Not sure if I ever will. But I buy 8 out of 10 things Catholicism teaches wholeheartedly so I don’t see why they’d be wrong on the other stuff. I think it’s possible I might go back and, if I do, I’ll have to do as you say and just have to have faith in those little “particulars” and suck it up.
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I think you are onto something here…I chose to be Anglican for a variety of reasons, one being that I cannot in good concious accept the Eucharist at Mass in essense saying "I am in fully unity with what the RCC teaches, when I am not, even if I am in unity with 90% plus of what Rome teaches. Many Catholics do so, and then there are many Catholics who are able to accept all of Romes teaching.
 
Bluegoat said:
The idea that some people could do more good works than are required, and that the CC can save up and dispense the extras, seems to be rather a belief-stretcher to me, I must say.
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So this is not taught in the Anglican tradition?

Since the Anglican tradition is decidedly western I might have assumed it was part of the package. However, I can agree with you, it is bad theology, and very likely something that should be corrected before any communion between the Papacy and the Orthodox is contemplated.

But I believe that Father Martin’s original complaint was that indulgences were sold, which would be a sin (selling the gift of God) permitted through a dispensation from the Pope.

However, if there really is no treasury of merit to begin with, then I suppose selling it would be a different kind of sin altogether …
 
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