I believe that you are failing to see the reality of dissention because you refuse to admit that it is happening in Catholic churches as well. To say that it doesn’t happen in Catholicism because it isn’t taught is just burying your head in the sand.
The Episcopal church is 1 province in the Anglican Communion amongst 38 (soon to be 39) others. Do you now see how silly your argument looks?
JL: I tried to send a PM but you have to many messages stored.
how is this not correct? I quoted directly after your post.
Rather, it has to do with the Anglicans being required to drop a core belief to commune with the Orthodox.
But, what keeps it common? What if one Patriarch wants to go a different direction? Is there control that can be exerted to discipline a wayward Patriarch?
But, I see absolutely no Orthodox outreach or attempts at unity. They may be there, but I don’t see them. Love Rome or hate her (and most hate her), she is seeking unity.
The dissension which you properly point out, no matter how true, relevant, or pervasive, reflects not one whit on the truth that the Church teaches - only on the willingness of certain individuals to follow it. From John 6:66, we can expect most, most to leave. Should their leaving reflect on Jesus?
But those truths you speak of which are taught by the Catholic church are also taught in other churches and included in their doctrines as well. Folks in those churches choose to either abide by those doctrines or shrug them, same as Catholics.
In theory? Yes. In practice? Also yes, in this case (rare amongst the Orthodox that what works in theory actually also works in practice).
There are still some questions about the truth of this statement among orthodox Roman Catholics (and published by them after Apostolicae Curae, with Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur). The question, I think, should be reconsidered. Of course, Anglicans need no approval from Rome for their orders. I am entirely certain that Anglican Orders (when conferred upon real candidates) are and have ever been valid. I just think agreement on this issue would be a good point of contact between Rome and the Anglican Church.
I agree somewhat with this. Rome is the proper point of unity, being that the Pope is to be the first of servants. Unity with Rome is what all good Catholic communities should seek tirelessly and always.
This is an offer of a father to a prodigal son. In that context, it must be, in my mind, respectfully and lovingly refused. Rome isn’t the father, here. God is the father.
JL: I think you are mistaken, I didn’t post on “Was/Is Mary the ark”, so you couldn’t have quoted me after my post. Since you indicate you know where this quote is, could you please give me my post number, from which you took this quote. I am unable to find it, I think you may have been QUOTING Dokimas
JL: Ok I have found the problem, those are Dokimas’ remarks not mine. He did the OP wrong and when quoted it quotes me using his words. Sorry
I would be interested in learning of these RCs, and the works with the NO and Imprimatur. Apostolicae Curae is a hobby of mine; this would be good to know. If it’s Fr. J. J. Hughes two excellent books you have in mind, ABSOLUTELY NULL AND UTTERLY VOID does not have the NO/Imprimatur, STEWARDS OF THE LORD does. Are you thinking of others?
But, the fulness of God’s revealed truth resides only under one roof. If I do not believe this, I have no right to call myself Catholic. All other Churches have a lack. The converts tell us that. Even if the Catholic Church is losing numbers, and we expect that, she is gaining in fervency. Amen.
But, this is one of the concerns which is most easily rectified, if man’s spirit is willing. Christ did not leave us orphans, and if reasonable doubt exists as to validity, then could not a conditional ordination, as with Baptism, be performed? My mother received conditional baptism shortly before her death - a death which arrived with great peace.
A simple test for each of these points: Which one, any one, of these doctrines or practices existed in the Church from its inception? If any survive this examination, one further test: Which now traces to the origins of Christianity?
Numbers aren’t the point.
Much more to the point.
It’s an excellent question. I hate to say, “pride,” but sometimes I think that’s a lot of it.
That’s not what I meant to say. I meant to say that it’s the ideal starting point (because I think it can be resolved to the satisfaction of both parties). I don’t agree with going at the really hard issues first. Easy issues first, and then work to harder issues.
On these I’m in complete agreement. On the last, I have no idea about a solution. About the rest, I have some ideas, but they would be difficult to implement until there’s some structure for the last point. But that’s the very reason I would want to start with Anglican Orders and work from there. I’m optimistic the rest could be solved if we come upon a sufficient number of common points, God willing.