"Anglo-Saxons" in the Church

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Yeah, that’s because they might be denied mortgages or loans or house sales if people found out they were Jewish or Italian. It was worse for Jewish people. There are several Hollywood movies dealing with anti-Jewish prejudice including “Gentleman’s Agreement” and the original Rosalind Russell version of “Auntie Mame”.
 
Was that not illegal then?

Half the people in the biography, it seemed, were Jews pretending to be non-Jews (by changing their names, usually).
 
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Yes, I know Maria is Puerto Rican, but Puerto Ricans are descended mainly from Spaniards as well as having some African and indigenous ancestry. Again, it’s curious that Puerto Ricans are classified as yet another ethnicity and must have more to do with culture than DNA. As for Tony, he is referred to as a “Polack” and states that his Polish name is Anton, although in Poland the version “Antoni” is actually much more common.
Italians were considered “swarthy” and “not white” by many. For a lot of people in US, “white” has meant Northern European.
This just goes to show how pointless it is to try to categorise people based on superficial physical features. Some of my English ancestors are unusually dark coloured for English people, and I mean dark coloured to the point that they’ve been mistaken for Persians. I think this all goes to show that racial categorisation is inherently problematic. We quibble, for example, over the nuances of terms such as white, Hispanic, Latino, and Puerto Rican, but we are happy to use the term “black” to encompass people whose ancestors come from almost all of Africa. Unsurprisingly, many “black” people don’t even consider themselves to be black. I understand that Somalis, for example, do not consider themselves to be black and sometimes even use the term as a pejorative way of describing other Africans. I guess the only real use of this data is to get a fairly crude sense of how different groups are affected by poverty, represented among the prison population, access healthcare, etc.
 
In the USA, the term “black” is considered outdated, if not somewhat insulting, and is no longer used, at least not by people who are not applying the term to themselves. “African-American” is the term used these days.

The reason “black” was used in USA was primarily because during the Civil Rights Movement, the African-American people active in the movement promoted the use of “black” as opposed to other words I will not write here, that were either crude or were perceived as having been imposed on the group and thus were unwelcome. A few decades later, when the African-Americans decided they would rather be called “African American” instead of “black” we all followed suit.
 
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the UK, the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
You have to be careful with Canada. Approximately half the Catholic population in Canada is concentrated in Quebec, and the vast majority of those are not of Anglo-Saxon descent.

My own anecdotal observations are that Francophone Catholics tend to be less legalistic, and more liberal. I have never, for instance, heard at the beginning of a Mass who can receive communion, or not, in French Canada but I have in English Canada. For most Catholic francophones, Church doctrines are more of a set of ideals to reach for rather than rules to follow.

That said, exceptions abound on both sides of the divide.

In Quebec there was a huge backlash against a very Jansenist Church (not dissimilar to the Irish) at Vatican II. Many left the Church, and many who remained took a distinctly liberal fork in the road. There is no love lost for the rigid pre-Conciliar Church here, myself included. Perhaps the pendulum has, however, gone too far the other way.
 
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Do you think that within the next few decades “African Americans” might drop the “African” and just become “Americans”…I wonder if it is because they have a certain prejudice against the single use of “American” because to them it sounds to much like “White Americans”… a term that we of course don’t use…we’re just “Americans”…I had a work colleague who was just a color shade darker than me as a white person…when I told her that she became very indignant and said she wasn’t “White”…it was as if she resented it…I can only assume that the sins of the past are still pretty strong in the “African American” community
 
I worked for several years with an AA. This is just a one off example but she didn’t like being called AA and preferred black. When I asked why, she commented that only some of her ancestors were from Africa and others were Caribbean and she said besides that, she IS black.

What I should have asked, but didn’t, is if other AA also felt that way. If someone is becoming a friend or colleague, perhaps it’s better to ask what they preferred to be called. I imagine they have multiple opinions and it’s kind of a shame that we can’t just call them Americans by now. 🤭
 
the UK, the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
I am well aware of the situation in Quebec. I have also noticed, when speaking to people of some nationalities (e.g., Belgian or Polish), they will complain about “the priests”, not “the Church”. “The priest” this, “the priest” that, “the priest thinks he is the emissary of God”, and so on. You don’t hear that in the United States, or at least I haven’t. I know many countries have an anti-clerical tradition that the US doesn’t have. (Poland doesn’t, to my knowledge. I can’t speak for Belgium. I know France does.)
 
In the USA, the term “black” is considered outdated, if not somewhat insulting, and is no longer used, at least not by people who are not applying the term to themselves. “African-American” is the term used these days.

The reason “black” was used in USA was primarily because during the Civil Rights Movement, the African-American people active in the movement promoted the use of “black” as opposed to other words I will not write here, that were either crude or were perceived as having been imposed on the group and thus were unwelcome. A few decades later, when the African-Americans decided they would rather be called “African American” instead of “black” we all followed suit.
I do not think of “black” as offensive, and I don’t know of any blacks who do either. It’s a perfectly respectable, shorthand way of referring to the African race, just as “white” refers to the European race.

Our homeschool curriculum is very Eurocentric (this to counter-balance my son’s first six years of school where nothing except the United States, its history, geography, etc. was even mentioned) and my son asked me if we were European-Americans. I told him we most certainly are, and that he should take great pride in this, just as black people can and should take great pride in being African-Americans. Heaven knows he’s not going to get any positive reinforcement about his European heritage from the media.
 
I do not think of “black” as offensive, and I don’t know of any blacks who do either. It’s a perfectly respectable, shorthand way of referring to the African race, just as “white” refers to the European race.
It’s fine if they use it themselves. As for white people using it to describe them, if you are white, please visit Washington DC, Baltimore, or Philadelphia and start talking about “black people” or “blacks” and report back what happens.
 
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Thanks for the heads up. Come to think of it, I have not been north of DC for 12 or 13 years. I struggled to remember the last time I was that far north. I don’t experience this as a problem here down south. I can’t speak for Atlanta. I generally do not refer to people by race unless I am called upon to do so.
 
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I wonder if it’s regional? I’m in Colorado. I have no problem calling them either one, I would just prefer to call them what they want to be called.

DD and grandson are going to DC this summer and I’ll tip her off if she has any need to refer to their race so thanks for the tip!
 
It’s one of those things where it’s okay if they do it, but maybe not if you do it. Also, as somebody said up thread, certain groups of African immigrants don’t want to be called that. DC in particular has many such emigrant groups.
 
I have to say your take really surprises me. I’m in California and people use “black” all the time, just as most people use “white” to refer to those of European descent. The one is no more pejorative than the other. It’s worth noting that no less than Gwendolyn Brooks preferred “black” to “African American”. She felt the latter was mealy-mouthed. It also has more syllables…

Maybe this is a regional thing?
 
I’m not in California. I spend very little time there except on an occasional tourist trip, and I have no idea what they say or do out there.
I have lived and worked in the Mid-Atlantic states for 35 years.
I have seen huge debates over language in the Washington Post and similar local papers many, many, many, many times.
Gwendolyn Brooks is black/ African American. Please read my comments about how it is different when a white person uses the “wrong” word. I believe she also passed away nearly 20 years ago.

I’m done with this conversation now because I think I’ve been around the block enough times to know what I’m talking about. If anyone else wants to disagree, I invite them to go use whatever words they like; when someone gets upset, it will not be my problem.
 
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I understand, TB. We’ll just have to disagree on this one. Having said that, I’m a great admirer of your contributions here on CAF. God bless you.
 
Yes it seems the Jansenist heresy ran deep in Ireland. Whatever conservatives say, Pope Francis is right that clericalism was a major part of the scandal.
 
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