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happymommy
Guest
I picked up on all this too. It’s easier to blame the Church…
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armywife
Guest
I’m glad you said it first. I wanted to but usually don’t on these forums because I’ll get accused of not being charitable.
I am an Army wife and my husband is leaving for his fourth deployment later this year. We are pregnant with our 7th. I’m not saying it’s not d!@# hard or that I haven’t had a breakdown or two over the years, but this is life and this is life being Catholic and I wouldn’t give it up for anything. (That and my fear of hell
) It wouldn’t seem so insurmountable if everyone around you weren’t using contraception. If society in general were having larger families you would have more support.
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The_Bucket
Guest
Oh yes and by all means the Church is the one that’s irrational and absurd in its teachings about contraception. Never mind the fact that the Pope Paul VI basically 100% on the money with his predictions for culture’s respect for life and fertility if contraception was widely used. Now we get to struggle with questions about the convenience of unborn children and elderly parents instead of just struggling with questions about the convenience of “consequence-free” sex… which of course does not exist.
I equally find it ludicrous that I’m writing such a vocal and passionate defense of the Church when I too have raged against the dying light in regards to Her position on contraception in private moments. I’ve done the same on Her position with regards to the death penalty. Then I remind myself that I do not have Her collective wisdom and what an absurd thought it is that I might know better than Paul VI, John Paul II, Thomas Aquinas and other greats.
I equally find it ludicrous that I’m writing such a vocal and passionate defense of the Church when I too have raged against the dying light in regards to Her position on contraception in private moments. I’ve done the same on Her position with regards to the death penalty. Then I remind myself that I do not have Her collective wisdom and what an absurd thought it is that I might know better than Paul VI, John Paul II, Thomas Aquinas and other greats.
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The_Bucket
Guest
Oh and one last thing… yes it is supposed to be hard. It is indeed supposed to be hard to be a good Catholic and be a good person in general. The gate that is open wide is not the gate you want to enter. This applies to married life as well.
It’s hard not to be physically intimate with someone you love before you’re married. It’s hard to be generous and always open to life. It’s hard to be charitable to everyone around you, even those who would spit on you and curse your name.
Life is intended to be a struggle with the promise that Christ will make your yoke easy and burden light if only you not only follow him but EMBRACE it. That’s the hard part. Many of us follow Him or allow Him to drag us the right way but we grumble against it constantly and refuse to embrace His way. I know I do that all the time and that’s why it is hard to find peace.
It’s hard not to be physically intimate with someone you love before you’re married. It’s hard to be generous and always open to life. It’s hard to be charitable to everyone around you, even those who would spit on you and curse your name.
Life is intended to be a struggle with the promise that Christ will make your yoke easy and burden light if only you not only follow him but EMBRACE it. That’s the hard part. Many of us follow Him or allow Him to drag us the right way but we grumble against it constantly and refuse to embrace His way. I know I do that all the time and that’s why it is hard to find peace.
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LucyLight
Guest
I’d say you need to deal with the selfishness aspect here more than anything because there’s a lot Is in that post. Remember, the Church doesn’t own your body but neither do you. You’re borrowing it from God who has stamped a time limit on it. Your soul, on the other hand, is yours forever.
Oh and since when do men get to avoid the “consequences” of sex within a marriage? No one’s skipping out of town here. Pretty sure I’m called to both go to work to provide food for my family and then come home to be a good father to my children and help out around the house every day. The work of a parent never ends and that applies to both parents.
The OP is upset way to show some sympathy and to help her feel less angry.
Oh and since when do men get to avoid the “consequences” of sex within a marriage? No one’s skipping out of town here. Pretty sure I’m called to both go to work to provide food for my family and then come home to be a good father to my children and help out around the house every day. The work of a parent never ends and that applies to both parents.
The OP is upset way to show some sympathy and to help her feel less angry.
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Veronica97
Guest
As someone who has been in a similar situation (I’d rather not go into details but I’ll discuss it with you if you PM me), I do understand how you are feeling. However, I can tell you at this point in my life (at nearly 44 years of age) I wish I had never gone to college PERIOD and I wish I’d never put a career in front of children or God’s Will. Looking back, I wasn’t even SUITED for the career I went to college for, yet I kept wondering why I had such a hard time finding a job and by the time I DID find a job, I hated the career I had chosen! GOD KNEW BEST. I’m not saying that you aren’t suited for the career you are wanting. But have you asked God what HIS plans are for you? He may not want you to have a career at all, He may want you to pursue your chosen career but He may be asking you to wait for the proper time, or He may have an entirely different career in mind for you. No one on their death bed ever wished they had fewer children. And since I have only one child I can tell you I understand that, and I’m not even on my death bed yet! As for the anger, I would recommend praying the Rosary–for the humility to accept God’s will, whatever that may be, and for the obedience to follow whatever He asks of you. It WILL work. God bless you.
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etmom
Guest
I know many who have supposedly have NFP failures, who admit to having sex on an “unsafe” day. That is as much NFP “failure” as it’s condom failure when you “fail” to take them out of the drawer. Imperfect use when you KNOW it’s not a safe day can hardly be deemed a failure. However, I personally know more people with a contraceptive failure pregnancy than an NFP failure pregnancy.
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JNdoum
Guest
There are strong reasons for not using contraceptives. Half of them are really abortions, because they irritate the walls of the uterus, making fertilized eggs incapable of implanting there, and the other half almost invariably lead to sins against chastity. I’m 15 years old, and I realize that sex cannot be solely for enjoyment. It seems a sort of moot point to simply do it for the sake of doing it. Oftentimes I don’t see the point of anyone having sex at all, because a lot of the time it’s used to hurt themselves and others. When you’re using contraception, it generally means that you aren’t doing what you’re doing out of love, or for the glory of God. As I see it, if you don’t do it for that, what’s the point?
As for the OP, I will pray for you. I’m sorry, but age and inexperience prevent me from giving any authoritative or useful advice.
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maryjk
Guest
You said it much more charitably than I would have.
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
You have a lot more sense than many posters who are much older than you are. You probably see a lot from your own vantage point that makes you wonder what we adults are thinking.
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
So you had sex outside of marriage but you’re mad at the Church and God? That act is designed to create offspring, or did you miss a few critical lessons growing up?
I am very disgusted with the tone of your post. You make it sound as if having 2 beautiful blessings has been a curse. “I do not want to stay home and care for 6 children.” Well I could say something very uncharitable such as that I hope you do not have those 6 children if you are not going to love and appreciate each one. I feel sorry for you if that is how you view being a mother.
How do you get from making love to your husband and having 2 children to being “barefoot and pregnant” your entire life?
That is so insulting to mothers of many children!Save your marriage? You mean, you would leave your husband if you can’t use contraception to prevent another baby? How does your husband feel about your 2 blessings? Or do you cancel off his opinion because he doesn’t get to experience the joy of carrying a baby inside him, like you do?
I had all day nausea for 3 mos. with my 1st son, 4 mos. with my 2nd. Still, I loved being pregnant, even when my ankles swelled, my feet spread out, and I felt like Sigourney Weaver with an alien growing inside me because the babies would wake up when I wanted to sleep.
Get yourself to confession, sister. Do it now. Confess your selfishness. That’s what it is, selfishness. You are a MOTHER NOW. Not a college student any more. Be a mother to your children. You can go back to school later on. What were your plans anyway? You have just been given 2 eternal souls to foster here on earth! What career could top THAT?
:banghead:
Snap out of it.
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losh14
Guest
Thank you, jonnlaureng, for sharing something so intimate and that you’re so passionate about. That takes courage and I hope it is received as such.
I’m a 30-something Catholic male, married and father of two girls. My wife and I have practiced NFP since we married and were successful in planning and avoiding pregnancy. That said, we don’t have sex nearly as much we would like. Although right now, with two small kids, we don’t really get the chance.
And I know that our being successful gives no comfort to those couples for whom NFP doesn’t work.
I can’t even begin, though, to understand how difficult it must be at home to have your husband away for such a prolonged and stressful reason as deployment. Even while consciously avoiding sex, there’s still the desire for some form of intimacy that doens’t have to necessarily be sexual but still requires the other person to be there.
It sounds like this is one of many things stressing you terribly, and not without reason. I feel awful when I travel for business and leave my wife at home with our 2 daughters, I couldn’t imagine a six-month deployment. When one of those stresses is compounded as being a matter of faith, it may seem like you’ve lost hte ability to resort to your faith to find strength. Please still seek the Lord and His help in your life. If our walk with Christ is a relationship then it would be incomplete if we weren’t angry with Him from time to time, but tell Him and let Him respond to you.
In the meantime, look at where you can find support among people as well. We all need other people to be close to us as a matter of human existence, and without your husband you may find you need more help socially and spiritually as well as keeping the household together.
I’m a 30-something Catholic male, married and father of two girls. My wife and I have practiced NFP since we married and were successful in planning and avoiding pregnancy. That said, we don’t have sex nearly as much we would like. Although right now, with two small kids, we don’t really get the chance.
And I know that our being successful gives no comfort to those couples for whom NFP doesn’t work.
As painful and difficult as this is, it’s also impressive that you two have exercised this level of self-control. I think the longest we have gone is 6 months (partly due to pregnancy).
I can’t even begin, though, to understand how difficult it must be at home to have your husband away for such a prolonged and stressful reason as deployment. Even while consciously avoiding sex, there’s still the desire for some form of intimacy that doens’t have to necessarily be sexual but still requires the other person to be there.
It’d be irrational to think that sex doesn’t lead to babies. That’s sort of the purpose.
Understandable. Have you been able to find women counselors - especially married mothers - in your area? Locally, we have several through the Cana Institute at St. Louis University - we went to one for pre-Cana and relationship counseling. Priests fulfill their sacerdotal ministry excellently but their talents otherwise vary widely so I’m sad that your priests haven’t been understanding or helpful but I’m not surprised that you feel little empathy from a celibate man.
You are completely fair to say so. And I agree, men like me won’t ever understand, even if we’re in the delivery room, or changing diapers afterwards and involved in our kids’ lives as much as we can, our bodies don’t bear the stress of pregnancy.
I really hope you find some guidance - it may not be here but ask locally. Are there mom’s groups you can go to for support? I’m sure you’re not the only couple practicing NFP, and even artificial methods aren’t entirely without error so that the fear of having an unintended pregnancy remains real regardless of method.
It sounds like this is one of many things stressing you terribly, and not without reason. I feel awful when I travel for business and leave my wife at home with our 2 daughters, I couldn’t imagine a six-month deployment. When one of those stresses is compounded as being a matter of faith, it may seem like you’ve lost hte ability to resort to your faith to find strength. Please still seek the Lord and His help in your life. If our walk with Christ is a relationship then it would be incomplete if we weren’t angry with Him from time to time, but tell Him and let Him respond to you.
In the meantime, look at where you can find support among people as well. We all need other people to be close to us as a matter of human existence, and without your husband you may find you need more help socially and spiritually as well as keeping the household together.
When my wife delivered our first it was by C-section. I was struck by how they had her lay down with her arms out in the operating room, holding a handle on either side so that it looked cruciform, that she was sacrificing her body for our oldest.
Counseling and support. I’ve been told there are fertility specialists within the organizations that tout NFP who specialize in diagnosing underlying reproductive issues that affect health in general as well as prevent NFP from being as reliable as it should.
I agree with you here at least.
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LucyLight
Guest
Obviously pregnancy and raising children is and will probably always be harder on women. Fortunately for me my husband does agree as he has been a witness to it. I feel sorry for women whose husbands don’t realize this. I understand how this could make a woman feel a lot of resentment. Although I think that more men are aware of this nowadays. It must of been very difficult to have a child so young. Good for you for choosing life.
The church does not say that you have to have 6 kids. We are called to be generous but not every woman is created to handle a large family. Why not go back to work part-time. If your working part-time and change your mind about having another child it would be easier to do both.
As far as NFP goes I think you should give it a shot again. It really does work if done correctly. I think poor instruction is the cause for a lot of suprise pregnancys. There are several posters who could probably help with that. For me the abstinance part is hard but since you are abstaining completely this might be easier for you. It would certainly be good for your marriage.
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St_Francis
Guest
I hope that my words will come across as kindly as I mean them, but they may sound harsh just because they may be other than what you want to hear. Let me also add that I am Annie, a stay-at-home homeschooling mother, despite my user name.
Life is full of decisions and also full of problems. I used to look at situations other than my own and think that they looked better than the situation I was in. That is a very human reaction, because we see all the warts of our own situation, and only the good outside of other situations.
You have made decisions. Some were good, but some… not so good. You decided to have sex when you were not married, not ready to have a baby. (You then went on to make good decisions, to have your baby, etc.,; I am not commenting on the morality of your decision but the fact that you did make a decision.
And see, your decision was not compatible with what you wree doing at the time, but by making the decision, you were in effect deciding against definitely continuing what you were doing at the time, since your decision was one that included the potential of a baby.
That decision was also potentially (and turned out to be) one of becoming a mother. Luckily your then-boyfriend accepted *his *responsibility in the matter too (not that it would have been necessary for him to marry you to accept his responsibility, but he did both, accepting his responsibility and marrying you). So your life is much easier than it would have been had he not done either or only one.
Now, our society says that a person is valuable because of the *economic *contribution they make to society. Women who stay are home and raise children are *not *considered valuable.
Moreover, most sex-ed classes emphasize not getting caught to the point that I believe even married women feel somewhat flustered about having children, esp if they then stay home with their children.
There is a disconnect between ourselves (sah mothers) and society. This can be incredibly tough!!! We spend years in a world where sex is ok and being pregnant or having a baby is not ok; a world in which working for money is what gives us value, and staying at home is sneered at. In short, we SAH mothers are running very much against what society has told us all our lives.
(Just as an aside, I would like to say that I believe that each family should arrange itself in the way that *best *suits all its members, and that may involve a mother working outside the home for whatever reason other than social pressure
as long as this works out for *all *the members of the family, so I do not in any way mean to imply that there is anything wrong with mothers having jobs outside the home.)You, my dear, are at home with two small children. You fear the addition of future children. I think that you need to think about why precisely you feel that way. And this would be best undertaken with someone you know in real life or can meet with in real life–ideally some woman who has learned to find happiness in her family life and considered these issues, but some friend or counselor (priest, NFP teacher, psychologist) who would be able to help you sort this all out.
Being a military wife can be very difficult. I grew up in a military family, and my husband, altho not in the military, has had to be away from home for his work a lot. There is the constant knowledge that things can change at any minute, making it difficult to really settle into any community; there is the constant coming and going of the husband/father–and this is a real transition: the family must function when he is gone, but open up enough to let him back in when he returns and this can take weeks or months of readjustment.
I hope that you will look for and find someone with whom to discuss these issue irl, because it is easy to see that you are feeling a lot of pain over them. It is hard, when one is feeling pain, to be the best one can be.
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TBenedicta
Guest
I’m sorry you’re going through these difficulties. Try reading the Book of James and anything by John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, or Edith Stein. All have something to share about the “night” we experience when we feel dry in prayer or disconnected from God.
Here’s the thing: you are a woman. You are created BY God, spiritually and biologically, to be receptive to pregnancy. Yet you are angry about it. Ask yourself why. This isn’t your husband’s fault.
We’re blessed that the Church in its wisdom has given us a reliable way to postpone pregnancies: Natural Family Planning or Fertility Awareness. As others have said, these methods are more effective than standard artificial b.c. and yet are designed in a way that respects God’s creation (our bodies), fertility, and life. The Church does not expect every woman to bear as many children as possible. Read Humanae Vitae for clarification.
Now, something you said resonates with me: " I do not accept that women are supposed to just blindly accept a possibly pregnancy every time her husband wants to have sex." Excuse me for being blunt, but don’t YOU want to engage in the marital act as well? Or do you simply lack the desire? God created our sexuality, male and female, to complement each other. If your sex life with your husband has suffered, I don’t think it’s because of your husband or because of NFP (as I’ve said, NFP is as effective as other forms of b.c.). It may be a deeper seeded issue, either spiritual or psychological. The only way to save your marriage, then, would be through prayer and counseling.
Something about the way you write hints at a disrespect for and distrust of men. Keep in mind that Jesus was man. That his successors were men, by God’s own design. It’s not a conspiracy against women, but rather, a plan for all humanity.
Peace!
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someperson555
Guest
what you describe is not abortificient, its sterilizing at best and not even permanently. and then theres barrier contraceptives like condoms which pose absolutely no threat to the health of either person and actually defend against disease. and what do you mean by “the others lead to sins against chastity”? when you are married you should be able to have sex with your own spouse for crying out loud. your logic is typical of the ascetics, “hate all pleasure” is their motto. im sorry but the rest of us enjoy sex and want to do it for enjoyment. there is nothing wrong with that. by your logic, then should we bring back circumcision? because it makes sex less enjoyable. this is my problem with ascetics, they despise everything that feels good, whats worse is that we have a bunch of ascetics making the rules for married couples. now look, since youre just a kid, im going tell you to keep being obediant to the church, i dissent on certain issues , but i have my reasons and i certainly dont want to ruin the faith of kids, so with that im just going to say, when you get older youll realise what im talking about, but untill then just continue being obediant to the church.
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spunjalebi
Guest
I have to wonder, if the Church is so irrational and barbaric and whatever else people have to say about it, how in the world did it stand the test of time…interesting.
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Apologista
Guest
Annie, you say it very well and with charity and empathy. Hope it helps the OP. I would also like to suggest to her and to others in a similar situation this: I know some military wives, and have heard that there are support groups for the spouses. Have you checked with your base to find out if there is one in your area? Maybe you could trade babysitting with some other military wives, and cry on each other’s shoulders if you feel the need. It could turn out to be a great stress reliever and a way to make new friends.I hope that my words will come across as kindly as I mean them, but they may sound harsh just because they may be other than what you want to hear. Let me also add that I am Annie, a stay-at-home homeschooling mother, despite my user name.
Life is full of decisions and also full of problems. I used to look at situations other than my own and think that they looked better than the situation I was in. That is a very human reaction, because we see all the warts of our own situation, and only the good outside of other situations.
You have made decisions. Some were good, but some… not so good. You decided to have sex when you were not married, not ready to have a baby. (You then went on to make good decisions, to have your baby, etc.,; I am not commenting on the morality of your decision but the fact that you did make a decision.
And see, your decision was not compatible with what you wree doing at the time, but by making the decision, you were in effect deciding against definitely continuing what you were doing at the time, since your decision was one that included the potential of a baby.
That decision was also potentially (and turned out to be) one of becoming a mother. Luckily your then-boyfriend accepted *his *responsibility in the matter too (not that it would have been necessary for him to marry you to accept his responsibility, but he did both, accepting his responsibility and marrying you). So your life is much easier than it would have been had he not done either or only one.
Now, our society says that a person is valuable because of the *economic *contribution they make to society. Women who stay are home and raise children are *not *considered valuable.
Moreover, most sex-ed classes emphasize not getting caught to the point that I believe even married women feel somewhat flustered about having children, esp if they then stay home with their children.
There is a disconnect between ourselves (sah mothers) and society. This can be incredibly tough!!! We spend years in a world where sex is ok and being pregnant or having a baby is not ok; a world in which working for money is what gives us value, and staying at home is sneered at. In short, we SAH mothers are running very much against what society has told us all our lives.
(Just as an aside, I would like to say that I believe that each family should arrange itself in the way that *best *suits all its members, and that may involve a mother working outside the home for whatever reason other than social pressure
You, my dear, are at home with two small children. You fear the addition of future children. I think that you need to think about why precisely you feel that way. And this would be best undertaken with someone you know in real life or can meet with in real life–ideally some woman who has learned to find happiness in her family life and considered these issues, but some friend or counselor (priest, NFP teacher, psychologist) who would be able to help you sort this all out.
Being a military wife can be very difficult. I grew up in a military family, and my husband, altho not in the military, has had to be away from home for his work a lot. There is the constant knowledge that things can change at any minute, making it difficult to really settle into any community; there is the constant coming and going of the husband/father–and this is a real transition: the family must function when he is gone, but open up enough to let him back in when he returns and this can take weeks or months of readjustment.
I hope that you will look for and find someone with whom to discuss these issue irl, because it is easy to see that you are feeling a lot of pain over them. It is hard, when one is feeling pain, to be the best one can be.
Try to step back, take some deep breaths, and pray for God to give you deeper wisdom and insight that might help you feel less angry and resentful, and perhaps be able to see the situation you’re in with more optimism. The trials we go through in life, whatever they might be, often feel worse or better depending on how we consciously choose to view them. I will pray for you to feel better. God bless.
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LucyLight
Guest
Sometimes I can’t stand these forums. Their have been some wonderful posts here but some of the posts hit below the belt. The OP is upset and is seeking help. She said she was angry and didn’t want to be. Getting anrgy back at her shows a lack of empathy. Berating the OP and pointing out things like you shouldn’t of had sex out of marriage is unhelpful and smug. If you can’t respond with charity to someone who is upset and asking for help than why are you responding? What is your intention?
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Kelfa28
Guest
Thank-you so much for this post!I hope that my words will come across as kindly as I mean them, but they may sound harsh just because they may be other than what you want to hear. Let me also add that I am Annie, a stay-at-home homeschooling mother, despite my user name.
Now, our society says that a person is valuable because of the *economic *contribution they make to society. Women who stay are home and raise children are *not *considered valuable.
Moreover, most sex-ed classes emphasize not getting caught to the point that I believe even married women feel somewhat flustered about having children, esp if they then stay home with their children.
There is a disconnect between ourselves (sah mothers) and society. This can be incredibly tough!!! We spend years in a world where sex is ok and being pregnant or having a baby is not ok; a world in which working for money is what gives us value, and staying at home is sneered at. In short, we SAH mothers are running very much against what society has told us all our lives.
(Just as an aside, I would like to say that I believe that each family should arrange itself in the way that *best *suits all its members, and that may involve a mother working outside the home for whatever reason other than social pressure
You, my dear, are at home with two small children. You fear the addition of future children. I think that you need to think about why precisely you feel that way. And this would be best undertaken with someone you know in real life or can meet with in real life–ideally some woman who has learned to find happiness in her family life and considered these issues, but some friend or counselor (priest, NFP teacher, psychologist) who would be able to help you sort this all out.
Being a military wife can be very difficult. I grew up in a military family, and my husband, altho not in the military, has had to be away from home for his work a lot. There is the constant knowledge that things can change at any minute, making it difficult to really settle into any community; there is the constant coming and going of the husband/father–and this is a real transition: the family must function when he is gone, but open up enough to let him back in when he returns and this can take weeks or months of readjustment.
I hope that you will look for and find someone with whom to discuss these issue irl, because it is easy to see that you are feeling a lot of pain over them. It is hard, when one is feeling pain, to be the best one can be.
I just became a new mother myself. I gave up my career as an EMT in order to stay home with my baby. Granted I’m also in school too but it’s becoming harder and harder to finish my degree in the allotted time I had planned out.
I’ve never been unemployed since the age of 15 and it’s far more difficult then I thought it would be to ask for money from my Fiance (very soon to be husband). To the point where I haven’t bought a single thing for myself in months because I feel so guilty spending my Fiance’s money.
Being a stay-at-home mom is difficult too. I have no idea how single mother’s handle a baby by themselves. Lack of sleep, lack of personal comforts, lack of social contacts and being able to hang out and go out anymore.
My Fiance was at work and got a chance to go out to dinner with his buddies. He called me from the bar just to let me know where he was. I was holding our crying baby and trying not to cry myself.
I told him to please not tell me these things anymore. I still haven’t had a day or night off or had a chance to leave the house for more then an hour or so without my baby girl.
Still, I LOVE being a mother! Despite everything, I haven’t lived my life until I was able to meet my little girl. She is everything to me and I want more.
But I want to space our children. I want to be able to finish my degree because it’s something I’ve always wanted to do and I want our family to have a back up if my Fiance loses his job.
While I trust NFP to work well to space our children. I have a feeling we will be abstinent for quite some time until my cycles come back and I can really start practicing NFP correctly without any scares. I don’t want to be abstinent. I miss the intimacy with my Fiance. We gave up sex quite some time ago and I’m anxious to get it back but in order to make this work…it looks like we will have too.
Oh well, I have to trust in God and pray this will work.
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