Animals You Eat: Bad Meat!

[4elise]

nice try trying to divert attention from the primary point…

animals are not created in God’s image; people are and so, why are we wasting time on animal’s rights when so many humans don’t have any.?

Please feel free to stop wasting your (and our) time on this discussion since you don’t seem to want to contribute to an honest dialogue.

 

[4elise]

a good Catholic sees that abortion is still legal… and works on THAT because there is SO much work that needs to be done… so much that s/he doesn’t have TIME for
helping allegedly mis-used animals… who are NOT themselves created in God’s image…

***Jesus said whatever you do/don’t do for the least of His brethren, you do/don’t do for HIM… ***

He never said the same thing about animals!!!

So, given your comment I would have to ask then why as a Good Catholic are you ‘wasting’ your time on this forum?

FACTORY FARMING impacts people. It isn’t JUST ABOUT THE ANIMALS. That is one part, but not the only issue. The pollution created by factory farming impacts PEOPLE, BORN AND UNBORN. ----

 

[4elise]

anyone who disagrees is off topic…

Ok… gotcha…

Y I K E S ---- PLEASE feel free to look at what I was responding to ----- this individual was asking if I knew if Iived on an American Indian Burial Ground — Not a disagreement — I had no idea what the connection was… and still don’t …

Would you agree that was off topic?

 

[Marfran]

ATTENTION to EVERYONE who is SERIOUS about this topic. It has just come to my attention that several posters here have joined this discussion for the intent purpose to be disruptive. To those posters please reconsider your involvement.

To SERIOUS posters please be informed that these posters are anti-human in addition to being anti-animal. Please check their profiles: distracted, Eddie Mac, and DanteAl have NO FRIENDS. Lost Wanderer has 5 FRIENDS but is a TEENAGER (and should probably have the guidance of an adult if he is to continue to participate).

I AM POSTING this not as an embarrassment, but as a guide for SERIOUS posters so that they can choose not to engage with the above-mentioned posters.

Thank you all!!

 

[4elise]

That’s not the impression I get when I see a poll questioning someone’s diet and then the OP goes on about how we should think about how the food on our plate ended up there. Then after that, people started coming in with arguments that supported a vegetarian diet.

Make sure next time that when one starts a thread, they get straight to the point and are ready to shift back to the topic at hand when it starts veering. :tsktsk:

THE SHIFTING BACK AND FORTH IS DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT IS NECESSARY TO RESPOND TO SUCH COMMENTS AS YOU HAVE MADE - AS OTHERS HAVE ASSERTED - Marfran and others keep trying to bring it back to the point – so :tsktsk: to you too!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Lost Wanderer has 5 FRIENDS but is a TEENAGER (and should probably have the guidance of an adult if he is to continue to participate).

THE SHIFTING BACK AND FORTH IS DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT IS NECESSARY TO RESPOND TO SUCH COMMENTS AS YOU HAVE MADE - AS OTHERS HAVE ASSERTED - Marfran and others keep trying to bring it back to the point – so :tsktsk: to you too!

Hey! I wasn’t the one who started getting on the case of meat eaters and ripping out Bible quotes in support of the vegan lifestyle.

And furthermore, quit blaming people for getting the wrong impression when we weren’t the ones who put that poll. Get the admins to remove it or something if you’re sick of it! Geez!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Y I K E S ---- PLEASE feel free to look at what I was responding to ----- this individual was asking if I knew if Iived on an American Indian Burial Ground — Not a disagreement — I had no idea what the connection was… and still don’t …

Would you agree that was off topic?

You made a huge leap of logic with that by trying to use my words against me. My point was, I didn’t care about how ‘brutal’ you thought of how animals were treated. I cared more about the children used in that particular slaughterhouse. However, you suddenly started telling me I should think about such children each time I eat meat? That is why I responded with my Indian-Burial-Ground analogy. Just cuz one slaughterhouse used child labor, doesn’t mean I’m going to stop eating meat. Period. Quit jumping to conclusions and twisting people’s words.

 

[Marfran]

Welcome Lost Wanderer, my friend. I see that you are lost, and I have extended my hand in friendship to you. You may continue to follow the discussions. I would however ask that you refrain from comment, at least for the time being. I would like you to do your own research on the topic before rejoining the discussions. Please spend some time doing this. Please feel free to contact me through personal email.

 

[4elise]

You made a huge leap of logic with that by trying to use my words against me. My point was, I didn’t care about how ‘brutal’ you thought of how animals were treated. I cared more about the children used in that particular slaughterhouse. However, you suddenly started telling me I should think about such children each time I eat meat? That is why I responded with my Indian-Burial-Ground analogy. Just cuz one slaughterhouse used child labor, doesn’t mean I’m going to stop eating meat. Period. Quit jumping to conclusions and twisting people’s words.

I’m not trying to use your words against you, just trying make the connection that you apparently aren’t making.

If you have access to meat, poultry etc that are not part of factory farming, then that meat is not the meat we are discussing on the forum.

If you eat meat that comes from a slaughter house that you KNOW doesn’t use child labor, than you can eat that in good conscious apparently BASED on what you said bothered you - however if you DO NOT KNOW if that meat comes from a slaughter house that uses child labor, BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID, that might give you pause to reconsider the meal.

There are many other issues regarding a plant based diet - but this forum is discussing FACTORY FARMING.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I’m not trying to use your words against you, just trying make the connection that you apparently aren’t making.

If you have access to meat, poultry etc that are not part of factory farming, then that meat is not the meat we are discussing on the forum.

If you eat meat that comes from a slaughter house that you KNOW doesn’t use child labor, than you can eat that in good conscious apparently BASED on what you said bothered you - however if you DO NOT KNOW if that meat comes from a slaughter house that uses child labor, BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID, that might give you pause to reconsider the meal.

There are many other issues regarding a plant based diet - but this forum is discussing FACTORY FARMING.

Again, how the heck should I know? I don’t have the time for that. I’ve got enough worries about my own life as it is without going through the trouble of tracing where my meat came from.

My issue with you right now is how you tried to make it look like I was supporting child labor by eating meat. My point was I saw a documentary that featured a certain nameless slaughterhouse that just happened to use children. How you suddenly leaped from that to assuming that my eating meat condones such practices is beyond me. I was only citing that as an example of how I felt about people reacting to supposed “animal cruelty”.

Please people, no matter how clean you’d want these factories to be (and believe me, I do too cuz I might as well be eating their products for all I know), these places will always be slaughterhouses. As someone here stated, there really isn’t a way to “humanely kill” a livestock animal. People raise pigs for the various kinds of food they provide (bacon, ribs, chops), but they can’t do that without killing the pigs and chopping them up to specified pieces.

Now if you’ll excuse, I’m taking another brief break from this thread. Talking about pork has started to arouse my stomach… again… >_<;; stomach growls

 

[Marfran]

Look I’ve seen enough of how animals gets slaughtered but as cold-hearted I may seem to you, I don’t feel sorry for them. Last time I saw a documentary in a slaughterhouse over here, I felt more sorry for the child laborers those people used.

Lost Wanderer: It is you who have made the connection. If you do not know how your meat was treated, raised, tortured, abused–or if humans were harmed in the process–for example the child laborers you mention, or workers who are psychologically affected by what they must do–then you are contributing to the continuance of the problem by your support through your purchases.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Lost Wanderer: It is you who have made the connection. If you do not know how your meat was treated, raised, tortured, abused–or if humans were harmed in the process–for example the child laborers you mention, or workers who are psychologically affected by what they must do–then you are contributing to the continuance of the problem by your support through your purchases.

No, the ones making the connections are you because you’re really misinterpreting those very words. My point was the documentary showed many things done to animals that you would describe as “inhumane” however, I didn’t care for that. Rather my concern was for the children forced into working in such places. Look I’m the type who’s always in a rush all right? I don’t want to extend my petty meal times by meditating on things that are impossible to determine. My food would just go bad on my plate if I did that. -.-;;

 

[Marfran]

No, the ones making the connections are you because you’re really misinterpreting those very words. My point was the documentary showed many things done to animals that you would describe as “inhumane” however, I didn’t care for that. Rather my concern was for the children forced into working in such places. Look I’m the type who’s always in a rush all right? I don’t want to extend my petty meal times by meditating on things that are impossible to determine. My food would just go bad on my plate if I did that. -.-;;

How are the children disconnected from the product that ends up on your plate??? Would you purchase clothing that was produced from the hands of the same child labor???

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

How are the children disconnected from the product that ends up on your plate??? Would you purchase clothing that was produced from the hands of the same child labor???

This is was the type of thinking I was trying to counter with my Indian-Burial-Ground analogy. Suppose the land you were standing was once the homeland of some lost Indian tribe? Would you move out? Suppose you owned a toaster and found out it was made by Hitler, would you buy a new toaster? Suppose you bought a videocam at a bargain price and found out later it was once used to film porn, would you buy another videocam?

Why should I go through the trouble of worrying over such things when I can never confirm them? It’s a waste of mental energy.

 

[Marfran]

This is was the type of thinking I was trying to counter with my Indian-Burial-Ground analogy. Suppose the land you were standing was once the homeland of some lost Indian tribe? Would you move out? Suppose you owned a toaster and found out it was made by Hitler, would you buy a new toaster? Suppose you bought a videocam at a bargain price and found out later it was once used to film porn, would you buy another videocam?

Why should I go through the trouble of worrying over such things when I can never confirm them? It’s a waste of mental energy.

No offense but your logic is flawed. Hitler is dead. Having his toaster is benign–it does not perpetrate continued suffering. Owning a videocam that was used to film porn does not perpetuate the production of porn. Supporting industries that have any kind of unethical practices perpetuates the continuation of those practices/conditions.

Vegans can beat me up on this one: Vegans do not purchase or wear animal products such as leather, wool, etc. because it perpetuates the continuation of the production of those products. Supply and Demand. I personally feel it is OK to purchase a leather purse from a resale shop, or to own an antique animal whatever, but would not purchase any new items from companies that currently produce these items, because then I would be placing a vote (by my purchase) for the continuation of the production of these products.

If you are purchasing meat from companies that abuse animals, or have other objectionable practices, or enlist in child labor you are contributing to the problem by the vote of your purchase.

 

[4elise]

This is was the type of thinking I was trying to counter with my Indian-Burial-Ground analogy. Suppose the land you were standing was once the homeland of some lost Indian tribe? Would you move out? Suppose you owned a toaster and found out it was made by Hitler, would you buy a new toaster? Suppose you bought a videocam at a bargain price and found out later it was once used to film porn, would you buy another videocam?

Why should I go through the trouble of worrying over such things when I can never confirm them? It’s a waste of mental energy.

so… at least now I think I understand what you were trying to say.

The difference however is

1. if someone is living on land that had previously been an Indian Burial Ground - no one is being injured today.
2. If someone owned a toaster made by Hitler - using it in no way continues to employ him, he is dead. If however by purchasing it I am supporting neo-natzies (sp?) then that would be wrong.
3. If I use a vidocamera that had been used to film porm, by using that camera I am not supporting that industry UNLESS I purchase it from people who film porn and they profit from my purchase.

So what Marfran and I are trying to say is that yes there is a connection…

IF you knew your dinner came from the slaughterhouse where those children were working would you eat it anyway?

 

[That_one_guy]

OOH! A Poll! I Love Polls…

Suppose the land you were standing was once the homeland of some lost Indian tribe? Would you move out?

Well, in some places in the US you would be forced to. And I sppose my Navajo friends would really dislike me for it! So, yes, I might move. It would depend on how much money I would lose or make, if I owned it. If i was renting I would move.

Suppose you owned a toaster and found out it was made by Hitler, would you buy a new toaster?

Yes. And I would put the nazi toaster up for bid on ebay!

Suppose you bought a videocam at a bargain price and found out later it was once used to film porn, would you buy another videocam?

Oh, heck, yes! I don’t know where that cam has been,… who has touched it,…what sort of junk is on it…eeewww,…yuck!

And I still would not knowingly support a factory farm.

 

[cathybramble]

so… at least now I think I understand what you were trying to say.

The difference however is

1. if someone is living on land that had previously been an Indian Burial Ground - no one is being injured today.
2. If someone owned a toaster made by Hitler - using it in no way continues to employ him, he is dead. If however by purchasing it I am supporting neo-natzies (sp?) then that would be wrong.
3. If I use a vidocamera that had been used to film porm, by using that camera I am not supporting that industry UNLESS I purchase it from people who film porn and they profit from my purchase.

So what Marfran and I are trying to say is that yes there is a connection…

IF you knew your dinner came from the slaughterhouse where those children were working would you eat it anyway?

i would be interested to know what the answer to that last question is too.

i’d like to add this thought: if you knew that eating meat helped support planned parenthood… would you eat it anyway?

you see, thousands of babies die every day from hunger and lack of clean water. in some places, factory farming is the direct cause of low wages that keep families poor, and the pollution that fouls the water and makes people sick. i’m thinking right now of la gloria, mexico, and its friendly neighborhood industrial hog farm that caused the current H1N1 A influenza that killed many people in mexico, including 2 infants.

why is it imperative for catholics to boycott certain industries if it causes babies to die from abortion, but balk and scream if someone says we should boycott industries that causes babies to die from the poverty and disease tied to those industries?

 

[cathybramble]

perhaps people will find this vegan video less objectionable.

veganvideo.org/

 

[4elise]

perhaps people will find this vegan video less objectionable.

veganvideo.org/

Isn’t that the BEST video!!

Please add it to the resources on the Group site -