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mpi
Guest
You misinterpret my post. The CCC endorses using animals for clothing.
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Des
Guest
Mary Francis is sending you a smile
It’s not whether it’s ok to do it, it’s how it’s done that bothers me.
From the CCC:
2418 It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly.
Causing an animal to suffer when there are other less hurtful means to kill it would be causing it to suffer needlessly.
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bbarrick8383
Guest
I would relate the depression to not eating properly. Her parents are fine, she’s married to a rather sickly looking fellow himself. You know, about 6 months ago I was getting to where I was feeling tired a lot. I do work pretty heave, but it’s not normal for me to be tired all the time. My diets been the same, but I started taking multi-vitamins and using a lot of fiber. I eat meat every day, and I’ve always felt good, I think my age is just kicking in. I’m about to start working out again though, I’m sure that had something to do with it. But anyway, I doubt I’ll ever meet a vegan that can keep up with me.
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yellowbird
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Did your cousin tell you this? That she lost the babies because she’s a vegan too weak to carry a child to term? Or are you guessing this is true? I ask because normally the doctor has no idea why a woman miscarries… I’m a meat eater and I’ve miscarried several times. Although it was never my fault - or anyone’s fault - I always felt guilty… why didn’t my body keep my baby? Did I do something wrong? It’s a horrible feeling compounded by the grief of a child lost.
If your cousin hasn’t said so and you are not 100% positive her vegan ways are the reason, I beg you and everyone else in your family not to blame her by saying things like this.
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chiibug
Guest
She weighs 80 lbs and can’t walk an entire block without having to sit. Her diet most definitely had something to do with her losing her babies. It can barely sustain itself.
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yellowbird
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chiibug
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Thank you, she needs it. Unfortunately the sicker she gets, the more convinced she’s not being “vegan” enough and gets more extreme with her diet.Oh.
That is just so sad. I will pray for her.
The message I’m trying to get to the OP is ALL extremes are bad. Meat is a necessary part of the human diet. There are tons of cows where I live now. I don’t know the difference between burger cows and cheese cows, but they look happy to me. These aren’t new-age hippie farms, either. Just your average cow farm in the countryside.
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Leopard
Guest
Referring specifically to clubbing as a method of harvesting seals:
It’s not whether it’s ok to do it, it’s how it’s done that bothers me.
From the CCC:
2418 It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly.
Causing an animal to suffer when there are other less hurtful means to kill it would be causing it to suffer needlessly.
I don’t think it has been demonstrated that this necessarily does cause more suffering than other methods of dispatching the seals might. I have dispatched rabbits and other small animals by means of a firm blow to the skull. Done correctly, they lose consciousness immediately and die quickly.
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Cracker_Mom
Guest
Makes sense.
The whole baby seal thing is silly. They’re extremely cute, but no more so than other domestic animals we slaughter for our use.
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samcarter14
Guest
Well, I had large babies. Two were 10 pounds, the last was over 12 pounds. No diabetes or anything, big babies just run in my husband’s family. His grandfather was 13 pounds at birth.
But…big does not always mean healthy. The irony is I thought my large babies were a vindication of my vegan diet. Even though I was vegan, I took supplements and tried to get as much protein as I could from non-animal sources throughout my pregnancies. But then my mother in law remembered about her father’s birth weight. My biggest baby was the one with a diagnosed carnitine deficiency.
I was very blessed to have no miscarriages, and to carry all my babies to term and have them be as healthy as they are, with the last being the exception. He’s fine now, on supplements and we make sure to offer meat at least once a day.
I think the bottom line is no one diet is perfect for everybody. I cannot thrive on a vegan diet; I am intolerant to dairy and gluten-containing grains. The best diet for me is meats, eggs, vegetables and fruits, rice occasionally. My husband, however, can digest dairy just fine, but too much soy puts his body out of whack. Some people can’t digest or stomach eggs or meat.
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Marfran
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yellowbird: you are a very smart bird. I find it interesting that people are making assumptions about people based on their looks! What should we think of the large, eat meating lady who miscarries? What kind of assumptions can we make there?
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chiibug
Guest
Like I said, she weighs 80 lbs. That is NEVER healthy at 5’3". I don’t have time to go into the tons of other health issues she has as a DIRECT RESULT of her vegan diet. You are the one making assumptions.
Her diet was a direct cause of her miscarriages. No doubt.
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Marfran
Guest
It sounds like your cousin is anorexic, and that this is the cause of her physical difficulties. I do not know of a healthy woman: vegan, vegetarian, or omnivore, who weighs 80 lbs. (Unless perhaps she is very short in stature.)
There is much potential for malnutrition in any diet.
According to the *Worldwatch Institute *there are 3 kinds of malnutrition:
Hunger: a deficiency of calories and protein.
Overconsumption: an excess of calories, often accompanied by a deficiency of vitamins and minerals. Overconsumption affects 1.2 billion people worldwide.
Micronutrient deficiency: a deficiency of vitamins and minerals. Affects 2 billion people worldwide. Includes people who suffer from hunger and/or overconsumption.
Obviously, anorexics suffer from both hunger and micronutrient deficiency. I do not believe it is accurate to equate the vegan population with anorexia. Anorexia is a disease.
P. S. So much for staying on topic in this thread!
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chiibug
Guest
She’s not anorexic. She eats a ton of food. Again, it’s the diet itself.
People have had their infant children taken away for trying to keep them on a vegan diet.
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Marfran
Guest
Your cousin obviously has physical and mental issues that affect her health. You sound like a very caring and loving person. I am so sorry for her. I do not know how this all ended up on this thread!!! I do not know how the topic of abusing animals in the FOOD INDUSTRY changed to the bashing of the vegan diet!!??!!! But here it is!!! Does anyone want to steer this ship back, or should we start a new thread on the CONCERNS OF THE VEGAN DIET?
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samcarter14
Guest
It inevitably happens, when a poster starts a thread about how animals are mistreated in the farming industry, and is a supporter of a vegan diet as being the diet of compassion, that people will point out that the vegan diet is not 100%, across the board, healthy for everybody. I personally do not think a vegan diet is a good lifetime diet to be on. Certainly it can be a “jumpstart” to a healthier lifestyle; if somebody is eating junk food on a regular basis and then makes the transition to a vegan diet, that can affect their health positively while they learn healthy eating patterns.
But lifetime, no. Not even Scott and Helen Nearing, the famous vegetarian homesteaders, maintained a vegan diet all their life. They ate cottage cheese and yogurt for the B vitamins.
In any case, threads about the abuse of animals in the agriculture business always come around to this point: Humans are omnivores, don’t make me feel guilty for eating meat, and you know what? I can’t afford beef from organic, grass-fed, massaged cows. I just can’t. Most people can’t.
I know you had good intentions when posting this thread, but people are going to defend their current lifestyle and way of eating. Because when you start pointing out the abuses in the farming industry, it puts people on the defensive when they know they can’t afford the pastured chicken eggs, the nurtured chickens, et cetera. Most of us are just muddling through, doing the best we can, and making sure we eat the best diet for us.
Do I feel twinges of guilt when I prepare chicken for myself and my kids, or eggs? Yes. I’d be a robot if I didn’t. In an ideal world, animals would be treated humanely and with kindess right up until they were asked to give up their lives so that we could live. But we’re not in an ideal world.
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maryjk
Guest
Exactly!!
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
I am another that can’t have wheat. I have Celiac. Wheat would make me very ill.
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Marfran
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samcarter: I like you! You are a deep thinker! I never intended for anyone to feel guilty about eating meat. Whether to eat meat or not should be another thread! The pros and cons of a vegan diet–another thread.
I think understanding nutrition and making choices for a personal diet can have a big impact on one’s life. One’s diet can affect one’s health drastically!
Humans are not natural omnivores, in the physical sense–they do not possess the characteristics of physical omnivores. I think a lot of people are not aware of the history of the human diet, and how it differs from culture to culture, country to country, time of history to time of history… (The more you know the better choices you make…)
The current American diet has really spun out of control…and promotes a lot of preventable disease. I think it would do everyone well if they did become aquainted with nutrition.
I do not want to argue with anyone about the consumption of meat–but here’s food for thought: If meat was intended to be a natural part of the diet of our species, why do we cook it? We are the only animal that cooks it’s meat. Cooking the meat kills the bacteria in it (like e-coli) that would otherwise kill us.
Oh, now I’m the one going off topic!
And another deep thought–off topic–why do we not have to pasteurize the breast milk that we give our infants, but need to pasteurize the milk that we take from other species of animals? Why do we not produce milk ourselves, continuously, to feed our own.
Just some things to think about.
The vegan diet is a diet of compassion, yes, I would agree–and that is why it is the chosen diet of many. However, it is also a sound diet, and I personally know people who have chosen this diet for health reasons, and any feelings of compassion for animals are secondary, or not even part of the equation. (And that could be another thread, the vegan diet for health reasons.)
OK–I feel that I am straying and staggering all over the place. samcarter you said: I know you had good intentions when posting this thread, but people are going to defend their current lifestyle and way of eating.
Lifestyle and way of eating do not necessarily even fit into the original topic. You can eat meat and still be outraged by how your meat is treated while it is still alive. Do we care enough about this topic to continue to discuss it, and possibly find some solutions?
Maybe some of you don’t care. Maybe some of you do. Maybe some of you had no idea, and are glad that you now have a new awareness.
When things are wrong in the world, we should see how we as individuals can make a difference. We can all make differences…some of us in big ways…others in little ways…
I love the world and everything in it. God made it all–and it all works beautifully together…
It is we humans who mess a lot of things up. Step back–take a look–are we doing a good job? In every department?
Sometimes it’s easier to just go with the flow…
samcarter are you the nurse from ER? I extend my hand to you in friendship.
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Cracker_Mom
Guest
You know, seriously, has anyone who complains about our US food production ever checked out the way it’s done in other parts of the world…
We have so much available to us in America & really take it for granted.
We have so much available to us in America & really take it for granted.
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