Animals You Eat: Bad Meat!

[Matrix_Refugee]

I’m minded of something Leonardo Da Vinci said, “Our lives are sustained on the deaths of others.” If I remember correctly, he was speaking about soldiers dying to protect civilians, but there’s a broader context. If you wear cotton cloth, the cotton had to be harvested from a plant, causing it to bleed sap and eventually die. Even if you eat only vegetables, harvesting your food still caused some suffering to the plant, or killed it: Pull up a carrot? It’s going to die. Harvest wheat? cuts the heads off and kills it. Pluck a tomato from the vine or an apple from a tree? It’s going to hurt the plant a little bit, though it will heal over.

I’m not a big fan of red meat (I can’t remember the last time I had any), but I’m not going to slam someone for liking a nice, juicy steak.

EDITED TO ADD: A question that always bugs me in these kinds of discussion: How come it’s wrongwrongwrong for humans to eat meat, but no one goes after lions or tigers for hunting wildebeasts or deer?

 

[mpi]

Please view the *You Tube *video *Animals You Eat: Bad Meat! *and explain to me how Catholics can be a part of this. This planet and all creatures in it are gifts from God. When we abuse animals, when we partake in pollution, when we degrade the planet/environment, we disrespect God. My Catholic Church speaks of Respect for Life–but we must respect ALL of life, ALL of God’s gifts, ALL of God’s creation. Catholics must stand up for the Repect of ALL of life, ALL that God has created–we are the STEWARDS of the planet. Watch this video and you will not feel like a steward–you will feel the tarnish, you will feel God’s disapproval.

It seems your view of Catholic teaching on animals is warped somewhat. Animals may be used to feed and clothe us. This is Catholic teaching. I am also a big supporter of the clubbing of the baby seals in Canada.

What is most disturbing about your post is you try and use the language of Catholicism (i.e. respect life) and distort it to fit with your political agenda. This is very inappropriate.

 

[bbarrick8383]

samcarter thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut!!! I had 5 babies without this problem, so I do not know what to say. This discussion was not intended to be a discussion about eating or not eating meat–it was intended to be about the atrocities that occur in the agribusiness industry. The treatment and abuse of animals–and is that OK or not. You can choose to eat meat–or not–but in choosing to eat it do you have any responsibility toward the suffering/conditions in which they are raised/killed.

Can we treat these animals humanely? Is their suffering irrelevant? Is it wrong to look the other way, and pretend it is not happening. Are we guilty by association–guilty if we eat products that we do not know the history of? What would Chirst or God or St. Francis say if they were present at the *egg factory *as they were searing off the beaks of live chickens with a hot gun, and stuffing them 10+ into a tiny cage.

Does God care? Should we care?

Marfran, I appreciate your kind words. You seem like a sensitive person, your kindess is felt in your posts. These animals, the only thing you or I could possibly do for them is provide their owners with a cheaper, more effective, more humane way to end their lives. There is approx. 300 million people in this country to feed, the people in the agribusiness have a tough job on their hands to make sure everyone gets the meat that their body needs.

If you wanted to get rough, you could sue them. Ultimately you will be hurting the people who can barely afford to put the meat on their tables. You could write your politican, if they ever did anything about it, would probably be some sort of regulation that would do about as much good as suing them. People who make **** like that video look for the worst place they can find and they exagerate it to no end to get sensitive people like you riled up. Ultimately we have people to feed in the end.

This thread got a little derailed here, but it’s all tied togethor. Those who dont eat meat feel bad for the animals and ultimately end up hurting their own health or the health of their children/grandchildren. You may have not had any side effects, but it does not mean that you did not pass some deficiency down to your children. You need meat, if you dont like how someone else raises it and kills it, the only thing you can do is raise them and have someone butcher them for you.

 

[Marfran]

I’m minded of something Leonardo Da Vinci said, “Our lives are sustained on the deaths of others.” If I remember correctly, he was speaking about soldiers dying to protect civilians, but there’s a broader context. If you wear cotton cloth, the cotton had to be harvested from a plant, causing it to bleed sap and eventually die. Even if you eat only vegetables, harvesting your food still caused some suffering to the plant, or killed it: Pull up a carrot? It’s going to die. Harvest wheat? cuts the heads off and kills it. Pluck a tomato from the vine or an apple from a tree? It’s going to hurt the plant a little bit, though it will heal over.

I’m not a big fan of red meat (I can’t remember the last time I had any), but I’m not going to slam someone for liking a nice, juicy steak.

EDITED TO ADD: A question that always bugs me in these kinds of discussion: How come it’s wrongwrongwrong for humans to eat meat, but no one goes after lions or tigers for hunting wildebeasts or deer?

Plants do not have central nervous systems. They do not experience the world or feel pain as mammals do.

Lion, tigers, raptors are carnivores. They digest food differently than herbivores and their systems are designed for this purpose. They are also needed in the natural world to cull the weak and sick. Vultures have special enzymes to digest rotting meat. They can eat a carcass of an animal that has died from a virus, and not get sick themselves. By eating that carcass they save the lives of other animals that could come along and eat it and get sick and die.

Each species is designed to live and be nourished in specific ways.

Carnivores all have killing aparatus: claws, sharp pointy teeth, talons, etc. Carnivores have specific meat digesting enzymes in their stomachs. They also have short intestines.

Herbivores have flat teeth and long intestines for digesting fibrous plant materials that require longer digestion times. They also have specific enzymes for digesting plant material.

Omnivores are all descendants of carnivorous animals whose bodies have adapted to also digest plant materials. All omnivores possess the traits of carnivores in addition to the additional abilities of digesting vegetation. Examples of omnivores include: bear, raccoon, etc.

This is in the animal world. Humans are considered to be omnivores by social adaptation, that is, they did not physically evolve from the carnivorous state–they do not possess the bodily characteristics of carnivores. They do not have the talons, sharp teeth, or claws. Humans have long intestines, etc. Humans are not omnivores by physical design–certain historical events, not physical change, is what is credited for humans adapting to an omnivore diet. Creating tools, utensils for killing/cutting meat–acting as claws, talons. Weapons to bring an animal down etc. Utilizing FIRE is a key component to this dietary adaptation.

Humans are the only animal that cooks it’s meat. Humans do not have the enzymes that carnivores have to kill the bacteria in meat–that is why we cook it.

 

[Marfran]

It seems your view of Catholic teaching on animals is warped somewhat. Animals may be used to feed and clothe us. This is Catholic teaching. I am also a big supporter of the clubbing of the baby seals in Canada.

What is most disturbing about your post is you try and use the language of Catholicism (i.e. respect life) and distort it to fit with your political agenda. This is very inappropriate.

Please tell me your thoughts on St. Francis. I don’t think he would club a seal. I do not have a political agenda–I am not very political. Using animals is one thing. Abusing is a different flavor.

If you raise chickens and use their eggs that is use If you mass farm chickens and to manage such large quantities of birds you sear off their beaks with a hot knife and pile them 10 plus into a cage where they can not move about, or be comfortable that is…what? The same as casually collecting the eggs that they have presented you in the first example?

 

[Marfran]

Marfran, I appreciate your kind words. You seem like a sensitive person, your kindess is felt in your posts. These animals, the only thing you or I could possibly do for them is provide their owners with a cheaper, more effective, more humane way to end their lives. There is approx. 300 million people in this country to feed, the people in the agribusiness have a tough job on their hands to make sure everyone gets the meat that their body needs.

If you wanted to get rough, you could sue them. Ultimately you will be hurting the people who can barely afford to put the meat on their tables. You could write your politican, if they ever did anything about it, would probably be some sort of regulation that would do about as much good as suing them. People who make **** like that video look for the worst place they can find and they exagerate it to no end to get sensitive people like you riled up. Ultimately we have people to feed in the end.

This thread got a little derailed here, but it’s all tied togethor. Those who dont eat meat feel bad for the animals and ultimately end up hurting their own health or the health of their children/grandchildren. You may have not had any side effects, but it does not mean that you did not pass some deficiency down to your children. You need meat, if you dont like how someone else raises it and kills it, the only thing you can do is raise them and have someone butcher them for you.

RICK: You are a nice guy. Yes this thing has derailed. It ruffles all kinds of feathers in every direction. The topic I wanted to address were the inhumane agribusiness practices. If I remember you are the guy with the humane farm. Feeding the planet is a whole different topic! There are divergent opinions about that. If anyone is interesting there is a lot of information out there on nutrition. Meat is not a necessary or natural part of the human diet. There is a lot of literature on the subject. The only vitamin missing from a vegan’s diet is one of the B vitamins. That specific vitamin is found in plants that grow in the ground but is washed away when we clean the produce, so it should be supplemented. It is often added to soy milks

There are also some diabetics in the family. There is a really great book covering this subject–I can’t remember the name–but will get it (the name) for any one if they ask. It is a book (with recipes) for a plant based diet for diabetics. I have a relative who changed their eating habits and is doing miraculously well.

 

[bbarrick8383]

View attachment 5484

Hopefully this works. Posted a picture of two bulls here. The white one is mine, the black one is my neighbors. Most calfs end up casterated because of this right here and the fact that most of them will end up on a dinner table. Just thought I’d share it with you guys, most people do not get to see this kind of stuff.

The black one tore down a barb wire fence to fight the white one over the cows. Believe it or not, the white one is old, but calm as a family dog almost. You can walk up to him and scratch em on the nose, if you dont mind him blowing snot on you. He will kinda try and headbut you, which is playful to him but dangerous to you.

The white bull is quite a bit more massive than the black one, if you could see him up close you’d be amazed how big he is. The unfortunate part is the black one is a lot younger and had the stamina to hang in there. He never pushed my bull around, he actually almost hit the dirt a couple times when my bull backed him up a ways. But with his stamina he kept going back till my bull had a big bloody spot on his forehead. You can see how my bull is standing straight, squared up and the black one is leaning forward, pushing with every ounce of muscle he has.

Anyway, they both will end up on a dinner table eventually. You talk about pain though, these animals think differently of pain than you do. Searing off their beaks seems inhumane to you, and you may have a point. But, if you want the truth on why it is done and if there are any other ways to do it on a mass level then you need to speak one person. Someone who works at one of those places, possibly the owner. And even an expert on chickens.

 

[bbarrick8383]

The only vitamin missing from a vegan’s diet is one of the B vitamins. That specific vitamin is found in plants that grow in the ground but is washed away when we clean the produce, so it should be supplemented. It is often added to soy milks.

There is a Dr. on Fox and Friends every Sunday. Today he actually talked about eating meat. He said he eats red meat once or twice a week. The rest of the time he is eating chicken, turkey or fish. He actually recomended eating as much white meat and fish as possible. There is a girl in a class I’m taking, she is a strict vegan and holds vegan cooking classes. I feel sorry for her, she looks extremely depressed and malnurished.

 

[yellowbird]

View attachment 5484

Hopefully this works. Posted a picture of two bulls here. The white one is mine, the black one is my neighbors. Most calfs end up casterated because of this right here and the fact that most of them will end up on a dinner table. Just thought I’d share it with you guys, most people do not get to see this kind of stuff.

.

What beautiful animals. They look very healthy & wow… look at all that wide open space! Seems like a great place to be a cow if you ask me.

 

[samcarter14]

RICK: You are a nice guy. Yes this thing has derailed. It ruffles all kinds of feathers in every direction. The topic I wanted to address were the inhumane agribusiness practices. If I remember you are the guy with the humane farm. Feeding the planet is a whole different topic! There are divergent opinions about that. If anyone is interesting there is a lot of information out there on nutrition. Meat is not a necessary or natural part of the human diet. There is a lot of literature on the subject. The only vitamin missing from a vegan’s diet is one of the B vitamins. That specific vitamin is found in plants that grow in the ground but is washed away when we clean the produce, so it should be supplemented. It is often added to soy milks

There are also some diabetics in the family. There is a really great book covering this subject–I can’t remember the name–but will get it (the name) for any one if they ask. It is a book (with recipes) for a plant based diet for diabetics. I have a relative who changed their eating habits and is doing miraculously well.

Carnitine is not a B vitamin. It is a quaternary ammonium compound, and you can only get true L-carnitine supplements (the kind that work at the right dosage) with a prescription. The supplements in the health food store don’t work right. And they don’t add carnitine to soy milk or any other soy foods that vegans might use.

Bottom line is, humans are omnivores. Whether we adapted biologically that way, or descended, our bodies are meant to have a varied diet. Now, because biology varies from individual to individual, some may remain healthy on vegan diets. Some may sicken if they have too much red meat. Moderation in all things.

And yes, animals should be treated humanely. But not given precedence over human beings.

 

[bbarrick8383]

What beautiful animals. They look very healthy & wow… look at all that wide open space! Seems like a great place to be a cow if you ask me.

Thank you, these two are healthy happy and big. They have all the grass and girls they can handle.

I forgot to mention though, if you were to approach these big guys while in the middle of this you probably would not live to see tomorrow. The black one almost ran over my dad after we seperated them with our pick-ups, we got out of the trucks and tried to push him back in through the fence he tore down. Without any regard, he could have killed any one of us. And he almost did.

 

[mpi]

Please tell me your thoughts on St. Francis. I don’t think he would club a seal. I do not have a political agenda–I am not very political. Using animals is one thing. Abusing is a different flavor.

If you raise chickens and use their eggs that is use If you mass farm chickens and to manage such large quantities of birds you sear off their beaks with a hot knife and pile them 10 plus into a cage where they can not move about, or be comfortable that is…what? The same as casually collecting the eggs that they have presented you in the first example?

Clubbing keeps the fur pelts intact - so that they may be used to clothe humans. The CCC endorses this, which is why I doubt any Pope will ever make a statement about seal clubbing.

 

[Des]

Clubbing keeps the fur pelts intact - so that they may be used to clothe humans. The CCC endorses this, which is why I doubt any Pope will ever make a statement about seal clubbing.

Do you have a link for this? That the CCC endorses the clubbing of seals when it’s unnecessary as I’m pretty sure that it’s a way to get rich and not to clothes the poor who can’t obtain fabricated coats by themselves.

And I most certainly disagree with the way many animals are treated when killed for food. There must be a better way to do this. St. Francis would definitely be ashamed of this.

I’m also first and foremost a solid pro-lifer but there is a time and place for everything and in this thread, is the time to defend the unnecessary abuse of animals in the way that they are killed.

 

[Leopard]

Do you have a link for this? That the CCC endorses the clubbing of seals when it’s unnecessary as I’m pretty sure that it’s a way to get rich and not to clothes the poor who can’t obtain fabricated coats by themselves.

And I most certainly disagree with the way many animals are treated when killed for food. There must be a better way to do this. St. Francis would definitely be ashamed of this.

I’m also first and foremost a solid pro-lifer but there is a time and place for everything and in this thread, is the time to defend the unnecessary abuse of animals in the way that they are killed.

The alphabetical word list for the Catechism of the Catholic Church does not list any entries for “club”, “pelt” or “seal” as referring to a pinniped animal. (There are references to Sacramental seals, etc.) I think the closest thing we can definitively state is that the Church has not addressed this specific issue, although it is possible that local bishops in places where seals are harvested may have made statements of which I am not aware.

While St. Francis did indeed have a great love for all creation as an expression of the beauty, power and goodness of God, he was not a flower child. I think many presume too much about what he would think about various things.

 

[Marfran]

Do you have a link for this? That the CCC endorses the clubbing of seals when it’s unnecessary as I’m pretty sure that it’s a way to get rich and not to clothes the poor who can’t obtain fabricated coats by themselves.

And I most certainly disagree with the way many animals are treated when killed for food. There must be a better way to do this. St. Francis would definitely be ashamed of this.

I’m also first and foremost a solid pro-lifer but there is a time and place for everything and in this thread, is the time to defend the unnecessary abuse of animals in the way that they are killed.

Mary Francis is sending you a smile

 

[Marfran]

There is a Dr. on Fox and Friends every Sunday. Today he actually talked about eating meat. He said he eats red meat once or twice a week. The rest of the time he is eating chicken, turkey or fish. He actually recomended eating as much white meat and fish as possible. There is a girl in a class I’m taking, she is a strict vegan and holds vegan cooking classes. I feel sorry for her, she looks extremely depressed and malnurished.

bbarrick: Maybe she is depressed. Maybe her mother died, or her boyfriend dumped her, or she is having trouble paying for school. Befriend her and take one of her classes!

The Dr, on Fox can’t be Dr. Oz!

I like you bbarrick even if I always mess up your name!

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Carnitine is not a B vitamin. It is a quaternary ammonium compound, and you can only get true L-carnitine supplements (the kind that work at the right dosage) with a prescription. The supplements in the health food store don’t work right. And they don’t add carnitine to soy milk or any other soy foods that vegans might use.

Bottom line is, humans are omnivores. Whether we adapted biologically that way, or descended, our bodies are meant to have a varied diet. Now, because biology varies from individual to individual, some may remain healthy on vegan diets. Some may sicken if they have too much red meat. Moderation in all things.

And yes, animals should be treated humanely. But not given precedence over human beings.

Interesting.My midwife always said she could tell a difference in babies born to vegetarians as opposed to babies born to meat eating moms.The meat eating moms had larger, more vigorous babies.Makes sense.

 

[chiibug]

bbarrick: Maybe she is depressed. Maybe her mother died, or her boyfriend dumped her, or she is having trouble paying for school. Befriend her and take one of her classes!

The Dr, on Fox can’t be Dr. Oz!

I like you bbarrick even if I always mess up your name!

No, pasty and sickly are two adjectives that describe most vegans well. My cousin is a vegan, and she’s lost two babies to miscarriage because he body is too weak to carry a child to term.

If humans weren’t meant to eat meat, we wouldn’t crave it, period. But it is a biological necessity. There’s a reason we don’t see cows chasing each other around, taking bites out of their rumps.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Please tell me your thoughts on St. Francis. I don’t think he would club a seal. I do not have a political agenda–I am not very political. Using animals is one thing. Abusing is a different flavor.

If you raise chickens and use their eggs that is use If you mass farm chickens and to manage such large quantities of birds you sear off their beaks with a hot knife and pile them 10 plus into a cage where they can not move about, or be comfortable that is…what? The same as casually collecting the eggs that they have presented you in the first example?

St Francis gave ALL his clothing away at one point & went naked.St.Francis could also communicate with wolves.Come on.He wasn’t canonized due to his supernatural ability to communicate with critters or because he was a temporary nudist.
Most of us don’t talk to wolves or if we do, they don’t understand us.We also don’t have the stigmata.Or give away everything to the poor.These are supernatural gifts/heroic virtues.
Most of us everyday sinners do the best we can & try to fit a little protein in our family’s diets.The fact is many of us, if left to our own devices, would have no idea how to obtain that protein outside of the meat/dairy case in the supermarket & are grateful to be able to afford it on our shrinking incomes.
Laying hens are de-beaked so they will not peck/cannibalize each other in close quarters.Chickens are pretty good at pecking each other to death even in good sized “free-range” pens.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

i am, right now eating a very, very good steak, i wonder if i could use it to cure a vegan?