Animals You Eat: Bad Meat!

[Marfran]

Without daily supplements vegans are very weak and lacking several key minerals and proteins, even with these supplements they are still so.

This is completely NOT TRUE. Please **educate **yourself on a plant-based diet. You subscribe to myths and misconceptions that are harmful to the understanding of nutrition. Please rejoin the post and submit calm, educated opinions on the subject of the treatment of animals in large-scale agribusiness.

 

[GottaKnow]

No less a religious authority than Pope Benedict XVI has stated that human “dominion” over animals does not justify factory farming. While head of the Roman Catholic Church’s Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the future pope condemned the “industrial use of creatures, so that geese are fed in such a way as to produce as large a liver as possible, or hens live so packed together that they become just caricatures of birds.” This “degrading of living creatures to a commodity” seemed to him “to contradict the relationship of mutuality that comes across in the Bible.”

from
mndaily.com/2009/02/22/factory-farming-moral-issue

 

[Marfran]

GottaKnow: I love you, but REEL IT IN, please!!!:slapfight:

 

[GottaKnow]

PLEASE EVERYONE–think twice before you make a HOT-HEADED response, call another poster names, or just respond in a mean or nasty way. This IS a Catholic forum, is it not???

I really am trying. But, it is so frustrating…:banghead:

 

[GottaKnow]

GottaKnow: I love you, but REEL IT IN, please!!!:slapfight:

You are right…I will go get some coffee and calm down(with soy creamer and sucanat)
Thanks.
:blushing:

 

[4elise]

You are right…I will go get some coffee and calm down(with soy creamer and sucanat)
Thanks.
:blushing:

Funny…I tried a cup of Chamomile tea with agave! :coffeeread:
(did you notice that quote from the Pope is in my signature!)

 

[srlucado]

Oh and tell it to Mac Danzig,too. Or Bruce Lee if he was still alive.

The irony of this comment…Yes, Bruce Lee, who are such a healthy diet that he died at a young age.

Anyway, I’m a hunter, and I eat game, especially wild pork (of which there is a lot running around here in Texas). Wild animals have a pretty good life, right up until the last couple of seconds.

I do believe that everyone who eats meat should at least once go out and kill something and eat it, just to gain an appreciation of what it’s like when an animal dies–and it’s not a pretty sight. (Even less of a pretty sight is what it takes to clean one out and cut it up. And if you think a feral pig smells bad on the outside…)

Anyway, a lot of non-hunters don’t understand that hunters love animals, and not just as food. I love stalking on the hunt, and I get no pleasure from killing. I’d rather photograph them, and I have taken hundreds and hundreds of photographs of deer in the wild; they’re beautiful and I never get tired of seeing them. But it doesn’t alter the fact that they are food.

 

[GottaKnow]

Funny…I tried a cup of Chamomile tea with agave! :coffeeread:
(did you notice that quote from the Pope is in my signature!)

Actually I hadn’t noticed the quote in your signature. I was too worked up I guess to pay attention. But, see, folks? Even Big Papa is on our side! Although I don’t know that he is Vegan or even Vegetarian.

 

[GottaKnow]

The irony of this comment…Yes, Bruce Lee, who are such a healthy diet that he died at a young age.

He did not die as a result of his diet. He died of a heart aneurysm, I believe. Jet Li and Jackie Chan are also both vegan.

Anyway, I’m a hunter, and I eat game, especially wild pork (of which there is a lot running around here in Texas). Wild animals have a pretty good life, right up until the last couple of seconds.

I do believe that everyone who eats meat should at least once go out and kill something and eat it, just to gain an appreciation of what it’s like when an animal dies–and it’s not a pretty sight. (Even less of a pretty sight is what it takes to clean one out and cut it up. And if you think a feral pig smells bad on the outside…)

Anyway, a lot of non-hunters don’t understand that hunters love animals, and not just as food. I love stalking on the hunt, and I get no pleasure from killing. I’d rather photograph them, and I have taken hundreds and hundreds of photographs of deer in the wild; they’re beautiful and I never get tired of seeing them. But it doesn’t alter the fact that they are food.

I used to hunt. Whitetail and elk. Even Javelina. I shot doves and quail and duck, geese, even went to a pheasant farm once where they released cage raised pheasants into the wild, scaring the poor birds just so they would jump up and fly so we could shoot them “honorably”.I understand the idea of having to “manage” the herds. Due to humanities encroachment upon their natural habitat. However, I would venture so far as to say that it might not be necessary if there wasn’t so much land being used to raise animals for slaughter. Land which would otherwise be habitat for the "game"herds or even farm land that could be used to produce a lot of food for human consumption.
The interesting thing with hunting, is that humans don’t do it the way nature does. Nature goes for the weakest, oldest, sickest member of the herd. While humans go for the biggest, strongest of the herd. Now, biblically speaking, wasn’t that Cain’s sin? He didn’t offer the best to God. He kept the best for himself. Yet, Able slaughtered the best for God.
Now, while this may seem to condone slaughtering animals for food, the point is that the best was reserved for God. So, by hunting for the biggest, strongest of the herd one is going against the example set in the Bible and in Nature.

 

[Abbadon]

HORSEHOCKEY!!! You have no clue as to what you are talking about. Ignorant talk like this is one of the factors perpetuating the very lie you are a victim of.Go tell that to the folks in THIS forum.veganfitness.net/forum/index.php?sid=b1f4be67e7545f9e74627a44bd81d9f2 You might find it educational.Oh and tell it to Mac Danzig,too. Or Bruce Lee if he was still alive.

I will reconsider my statement from non-biased sources. It has been a while since I explored this.

Which is just sick. But, at least it could ease some of the unnecessary suffering of the animals. The only question is what effect will it have on future generations when the genetically mutated strain of fake meat begins to bond with the DNA of our children and grandchildren? and it will.

No it won’t, it shows you know nothing about DNA. I recommend Lehninger Biochemistry, it will help you educate and inform your self.
Just to give you an idea of how difficult it is to bond genetic material to the preexistant genetic material of eukaryotic cells, when we attempt to do this in the lab there are a few approaches. We uses viruses to coinfect cells at specific attachment sites carrying host DNA. We use viruses like P1 to transfer complete other DNA and pray to all gods of science that the recombination event we want occurs. Or we use a type of electrophtesis to alter the cell membrane to allow entry of the new DNA into the cell without being consumed by a vascoule and again pray.

It’s not mutated strains of fake meat, its cells of the same meat as you would find on any healthy animal you decide to grow. You would grow it into the unmutated same meat. Unfortunately this is the problem with technologies like this. They have such a bad rap thanks to all the lies and misconceptions brought about by PETA and Greenpeace. That the only real thing that will sell it is re-education and an insanely cheap price tag.

There is a truth to “you are what you eat”. Besides, how will you determine the cuts of meat you ogres drool over? Or will it all be hamboogers and snotdogs?

I’ll take my chicken menstruation and pic intestines with some toast and Vegemite thank you.

I cannot believe how deliberate you people are in your ignorance.

Now repeat after me, new genetic information is only added to eukaryotic cells after a forced insertion and a highly unlikely reccombination event… now say it again…

You are killing everyone around you and you are fighting to maintain your sin. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? What part of “WARNING” do you not understand?
You are like the guy in the old joke that says,“Lord, why did you not save me?” to which Jesus replied,“I sent you three boats and a helicopter… What else did you expect?”

Did the boats have deer on them? I love deer stew. And I hunt and kill my own, so it gets to enjoy the natural surrounds of the forest and die to a predator just like nature intended. I personally in my best days of fitness like to go old school pretend I’m a wolf use stealth and a really sharp knife. Since I can’t run as fast as a wolf it sometimes takes all day to catch my prey.

 

[Abbadon]

The interesting thing with hunting, is that humans don’t do it the way nature does. Nature goes for the weakest, oldest, sickest member of the herd. While humans go for the biggest, strongest of the herd. Now, biblically speaking, wasn’t that Cain’s sin? He didn’t offer the best to God. He kept the best for himself. Yet, Able slaughtered the best for God.
Now, while this may seem to condone slaughtering animals for food, the point is that the best was reserved for God. So, by hunting for the biggest, strongest of the herd one is going against the example set in the Bible and in Nature.

It does worse. It seems to condone slaughtering animals for burnt offerings and sacrifice… where no one gets to eat…

 

[Abbadon]

Anyway, a lot of non-hunters don’t understand that hunters love animals, and not just as food. I love stalking on the hunt, and I get no pleasure from killing. I’d rather photograph them, and I have taken hundreds and hundreds of photographs of deer in the wild; they’re beautiful and I never get tired of seeing them. But it doesn’t alter the fact that they are food.

I love the hunt and I love the kill, especially when it’s upclose and after a hoof kick to the ribs. Nothing better than prey that stands it’s grounds and nearly kills you. However internal bleeding does result in having to use a gun or bow for the next month or two… hehehehe…

I love certain animals, the wolf, if it was leagle I would have wolf pets. And I love to eat others…

 

[Abbadon]

But in all seriousness if we all bought RSPCA approved and freerange animals, which is what I do, wouldn’t this show that we wan’t humanely treated animals to eat?

But sometimes that isn’t possible, if your poor you buy what you can afford, and sometimes all you can afford is caged eggs and hens.

There is no reason to go to the insane leangth of becoming a vegan.

 

[Oreoracle]

He did not die as a result of his diet. He died of a heart aneurysm, I believe.

Actually, I heard that he died from an allergic reaction to Tylenol. His brain swelled up. Mind you, there are a lot of stories of how he died.

 

[4elise]

There is no reason to go to the insane leangth of becoming a vegan.

No insane length needed - switch animal protein with plant protein - ensure that you are getting Bs & Omegas (can be done with dietary choices or supplements) - and you have made the sane switch - it IS cheaper - so for the poor it can be a great way to go - it is however VERY counter-cultural - just like being Catholic is

 

[That_one_guy]

Well now.
This is all very interesting. It seems expedient that people change their eating habits for the sake of their health, if nothing else.
“The United States is considered to be the breadbasket of the world, but our food production methods show little concern for the planet or the future. For every calorie of grain we produce with our chemical-mechanical system of agriculture, we expend 16 calories of energy. For every calorie of meat we produce we expend 70 calories of energy.You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to know that we are headed toward disaster if we continue to pursue the present course of using large amounts of energy to support a meat-based non-organic diet.”
-Erik Marcus

It is an interesting acronym that the Standard American Diet is “SAD”.
One hundred years ago, eating meat was a luxury. Now it is an everyday occurrence. People eat meat for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks. It has grown so common that now even the poorest of persons is almost forced to eat it. Unless it specifically caters to Vegans/vegetarians you cannot go to almost any restaurant without some animal product on the menu.
More people have heart disease, cancer, high blood pressure today than ever before. Diseases that used to be found among the rich upper-class who could afford the luxury of meat. Now these meat related illnesses account for a large percent of the deaths in the world today. People are becoming more and more knowledgeable about these things and it is becoming fashionable than ever to go organic/vegetarian, or even vegan. This is not a trend. It is a logical change in the order of things. People are smarter than most people think. ARE YOU LISTENING GOTTAKNOW? There will be persons who will continue to fight for their addiction to meat. These people honestly and sadly believe that it is actually healthier for them to eat meat. But, Just a few decades ago, people honestly believed that smoking cigarettes was actually beneficial for them, too. It is just a matter of time before a class action suit is filed against the large meat companies in the same fashion as the cigarette industry for lying to the public and causing health hazards. Not only because of the health risks from the meat eating itself,but from the pandemic flu’s and spread of e.coli and salmonella to the plant foods people eat. Food which does not need to be in contact with animal waste. But, is in close proximity to the factory farms which produce it.
It is also noticeable that our children are maturing physically much quicker than they did 30 or 40 years ago. This is due to the steroids and growth hormones which is passed into the animal products which our children are fed. And modern milk has actually been shown to cause osteoporosis.
But, just as it took a long time for people to accept that the earth is not flat and that evolution is a fact. It will take a while for some folks to realize that global warming is real and that factory farms are THE leading cause of it.
As for Abbadons reference to lehningers biochemistry… I honestly haven’t got a clue. But, I am pretty sure that most of the animals people eat are not as healthy as they were 100 yrs ago. And I don’t think you can eat sick animals and stay healthy for very long.

 

[That_one_guy]

But in all seriousness if we all bought RSPCA approved and freerange animals, which is what I do, wouldn’t this show that we wan’t humanely treated animals to eat?

Treating the animals nicer only serves to let you feel less guilty about
the pain and suffering they are put through as they are put to death.

But sometimes that isn’t possible, if your poor you buy what you can afford, and sometimes all you can afford is caged eggs and hens.

Ironically, the true cost is not factored in to the eggs you buy. It takes a laying hen approximately 3 days to produce an egg.So, for something you are going to gulp down about 3 of in 5 minutes, it takes this hen a week and a half to produce. On sale you can get what would take one hen about a month and a week to produce for less than a dollar. Now, go to costco and look at the thousands of eggs in the cooler. Know that that is just a small portion of the amount of eggs being sold in the US. can you fathom the number of laying hens that it takes to give you those cheap cholesterol bombs?

There is no reason to go to the insane leangth of becoming a vegan.

The worst part about becoming a vegan is if you are used to eating at McGarbage.It is actually very easy and there are lots of places to help you with the transition. I can help if you like. I don’t see how being vegan is extreme. Especially since he human body is designed for an herbivorous diet. Although, we have adapted to eating meat over the centuries. Being vegan is even more cost effective. Vegetables are cheaper. and you can grow them yourselves! No city is going to let you have livestock in most urban neighborhoods.

 

[That_one_guy]

Actually, I heard that he died from an allergic reaction to Tylenol. His brain swelled up. Mind you, there are a lot of stories of how he died.

He did not die as a result of his diet. He died of a heart aneurysm, I believe. Jet Li and Jackie Chan are also both vegan.

According to the movie he was killed by some kung fu demon

 

[Abbadon]

Treating the animals nicer only serves to let you feel less guilty about
the pain and suffering they are put through as they are put to death. Ironically, the true cost is not factored in to the eggs you buy. It takes a laying hen approximately 3 days to produce an egg.So, for something you are going to gulp down about 3 of in 5 minutes, it takes this hen a week and a half to produce. On sale you can get what would take one hen about a month and a week to produce for less than a dollar. Now, go to costco and look at the thousands of eggs in the cooler. Know that that is just a small portion of the amount of eggs being sold in the US. can you fathom the number of laying hens that it takes to give you those cheap cholesterol bombs?

Guilt over what killing prey? Happens in nature all the time and often far more cruelly. Nature isn’t some fun theme park, its a rutheless rough way to eek out a living. I buy it because IF we are going to herd animals we have an obligation to do it without causing undue harm to the creature.

The worst part about becoming a vegan is if you are used to eating at McGarbage.It is actually very easy and there are lots of places to help you with the transition. I can help if you like. I don’t see how being vegan is extreme. Especially since he human body is designed for an herbivorous diet. Although, we have adapted to eating meat over the centuries. Being vegan is even more cost effective. Vegetables are cheaper. and you can grow them yourselves! No city is going to let you have livestock in most urban neighborhoods.

Well i don’t eat out, I eat mainly what my mom cooks. And a nice lamb curry hits the spot.
And I also love my deer meat, some red wine, a stew mmmmmmm… A nice warm chicken and corn soup, which is what I’m eating right now as I type it.

I’m wouldn’t become a vegetarian because I love eating meat. And hunting prey is such a natural process and so much fun.

 

[Abbadon]

As for Abbadons reference to lehningers biochemistry… I honestly haven’t got a clue. But, I am pretty sure that most of the animals people eat are not as healthy as they were 100 yrs ago. And I don’t think you can eat sick animals and stay healthy for very long.

The Lehininger biochemistry was just a bit of fun poking. I don’t expect the average person to have any clue about DNA or genetics or protiens. So ignorance is acceptable. And I’m sure the propaganda machines of greenpeace and PETA are very effective, so I’m never surprised when I hear talk like this. Just the other day I got into an argument with humane animal society and animal testing when he said the most retarded things.

Animals as a species (pick any) are just as healthy as they were 100 years ago. Eating sick animals is mostly fine as long as you cook it really well. There are no prions (mad cow) present on the organism, because you can’t even nuke that out. What you have to worry about is coming into contact with the things that made the animal sick and it transferring to you. The problems are more in the preparation and act of cooking more than in the consumption of.