Animals You Eat: Bad Meat!

[GottaKnow]

The reason I asked was because 4elise said something about it. And I got the impression that she was vegan or at least not an omnivore. So some vegans must be buying them.

I take supplements, but it is because of my Celiac.

That is too bad that you can’t have wheat products. It must make for a lot of label reading when you shop.
We have to read a lot of labels when we shop,too. Mostly to be sure it doesn’t contain animal products. Fortunately some companies are realizing how fast the Vegan movement is growing and are starting to label there foods as Vegan when they are.

As for supplements. If you need supplements then your probably not eating right. ell, maybe not in your case maryjk. But, in individuals who don’t have any allergies. I am incklined to believe that the vast majority of persons on supplements are self prescribed. Probably just uber-health oriented or athletes.Some vegans do buy supplements. Many are celiac just like yourself.

 

[GottaKnow]

… I got the impression that she was vegan or at least not an omnivore.

For the record. The only true vegetarian is the Vegan diet (strict vegetarian) The other alleged vegetarian diets are misnomers and are actually subclasses of omnivore.Ovo (eggs), lacto (animal milk), pesca, (fish)… All of these are animal or animal products.

 

[GottaKnow]

I can’t seem to find the numbers perhaps one of you vegans would know. How many g of vegetables would you have to eat to equal 500g of beef?

Explain, please? 500 grams(?) is 500 grams…I don’t know what you are asking here.

And what plant do you eat to get your Omega 3 from, I’m finding it difficult to find a plant which does?

Flax,and algae (spirulina) The omega-3 fatty acids in seeds such as whole grains may be even more important in maintaining your health than the omega-3 fatty acids found in fish. Virtually every plant source of omega-3’s also contains vitamin E, while fish oils are low in vitamin E. All omega-3’s break down very quickly when exposed to oxygen in your body, and vitamin E stabilizes them so they are more effective.

Unless it’s been genetically modified, which I think is a win, but no doubt most vegans would be holier than thou organic only…

NO!Not the holier than thou argument! Gee whiz! Tell an alcoholic he should stop drinking and all of a sudden your “holier than thou” or a drug addict. I suppose your priest is “holier than thou” because he says a set regimen of prayers and encourages you to do the same.

I just realized something rather funny, I eventually want to work in agricultural biotechnology, so the more people that become vegetarians or vegans certainly don’t hurt my desired industry.

Kudos to you! Fruits and veggeis are getting more popular everyday. So, you are aware then of just how much food is wasted feeding it to animals to eat.?yes?:thumbsup:U.S. could feed 800 million people with grain that livestock eat, Cornell ecologist advises animal scientists
news.cornell.edu/releases/aug97/livestock.hrs.html

But I refuse to let anyone take away my right to eat meat (yummy delicious meats) as my body has evolved to do. I know noone is saying that but the way in which it is spoken seems to tend that if we could ban it we would, sif that I say…

Actually, it is called abolitionist. and, yes, many people are saying it.For me it is an economic/environmental sustainability issue.I don’t care if you eat meat. I don’t care if you do drugs or smoke cigarettes. Until I have to inhale your second hand smoke, or call the cops because you burglurized my house while on drugs, or UNTIL YOUR E.COLI AND SALMONELLA CONTAMINATE MY FOOD!! Then it becomes my problem. And that, my friend, is simply intolerable. Not to mention the greenhouse gasses and the swine and bird flu’s , etc.

 

[Michaeljc4]

Eating meat–meat that the majority of Americans purchase in grocery stores, at Costco, etc.-- has the following consequences that should be of concern to Catholics:

1. The grain needed to feed meat animals, quite literally, is taken away from the poor and promotes global starvation.
2. Factory farming, which is the norm for meat production, is fosters diseases that can and do spread to human beings. Again, it is the poorest in the world who will bear the brunt of epidemics and pandemics.
3. Factory farming is unimaginably cruel. Look it up for yourself and see.

No one is required, by our Catholic faith, to become a vegetarian. However, I encourage everyone reading this thread to at least give the argument a fair hearing. The cost of meat–in terms of impact on the globe, and on the poor–far outweighs the benefits, in my opinion.

I love meat. Steak, bacon, chicken…yum-yum. I started working toward being a vegetarian about a year ago when I learned how meat is produced, and who gets screwed by my enjoyment of meat (hint: ‘the least of these.’) Giving it up has been hard; I’m still not at 100% (but I’m at about 95% at this point). For those of you who have a knee-jerk reaction to the idea of giving meat up, I can only encourage you to educate yourselves about where it comes from, and who, ultimately, is paying for it. Follow your conscience. Sacrifice for the poor. God will know your heart.

commondreams.org/archive/2008/07/10/10250?page=1

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Eating meat–meat that the majority of Americans purchase in grocery stores, at Costco, etc.-- has the following consequences that should be of concern to Catholics:

1. The grain needed to feed meat animals, quite literally, is taken away from the poor and promotes global starvation.
2. Factory farming, which is the norm for meat production, is fosters diseases that can and do spread to human beings. Again, it is the poorest in the world who will bear the brunt of epidemics and pandemics.
3. Factory farming is unimaginably cruel. Look it up for yourself and see.

No one is required, by our Catholic faith, to become a vegetarian. However, I encourage everyone reading this thread to at least give the argument a fair hearing. The cost of meat–in terms of impact on the globe, and on the poor–far outweighs the benefits, in my opinion.

I love meat. Steak, bacon, chicken…yum-yum. I started working toward being a vegetarian about a year ago when I learned how meat is produced, and who gets screwed by my enjoyment of meat (hint: ‘the least of these.’) Giving it up has been hard; I’m still not at 100% (but I’m at about 95% at this point). For those of you who have a knee-jerk reaction to the idea of giving meat up, I can only encourage you to educate yourselves about where it comes from, and who, ultimately, is paying for it. Follow your conscience. Sacrifice for the poor. God will know your heart.

commondreams.org/archive/2008/07/10/10250?page=1

Modern livestock producers actually allow low income folks like myself to be able to afford to eat meat & serve it to my children. At least occasionally.
If you look back to the good old days, meat was a luxury.

 

[Abbadon]

Explain, please? 500 grams(?) is 500 grams…I don’t know what you are asking here.

how many grams of vegitable matter would you have to eat to recieve the same amount of proteins, iron and nutrients found in 500g of meat. Or even how many g to 1g… whatever I just want a comparison

Actually, it is called abolitionist. and, yes, many people are saying it.For me it is an economic/environmental sustainability issue.I don’t care if you eat meat. I don’t care if you do drugs or smoke cigarettes. Until I have to inhale your second hand smoke, or call the cops because you burglurized my house while on drugs, or UNTIL YOUR E.COLI AND SALMONELLA CONTAMINATE MY FOOD!! Then it becomes my problem. And that, my friend, is simply intolerable. Not to mention the greenhouse gasses and the swine and bird flu’s , etc.

Well I don’t see how E.Coli would be contaminating other foods. without direct contact. That would be problems of the distributer and supplier.
Yea well some people drive cars, I ride a bike and take public transport, I’m not complaining…
And well viruses are something your going to have to live and deal with, and cross species transitions don’t just happen with breed livestock, remember the HIV viruses?
And well if you don’t like breathing second hand smoke I suggest you move, I usually head upwind.
As for the robbery, well there are laws against that regardless of the drugs/

 

[Abbadon]

I hope how we get the food is humane…If we eat animals from death, I hope its healthy, if they kill it, I hope its painless quick not torture it. Also on the animal subject, all these girls in our school have these “ugg” boots or however you say it. The point it uses real fear, and not being racist towards chinese people not saying all do it but I heard in china to get the skin of an animal they take the animal skin(skinned alived) and leave it to rot, now if that is true it is outrageous!Fake fur is the best in my opinion.

Well something I personally know they do in China and Taiwan, is cook fry and consume a fish while it is still alive and breathing… The skill it takes to keep the animal alive while removing specific organs and waste makes it a very expensive delicacy…

 

[Abbadon]

Just a hypothetical to understand where you vegans are coming from. IF in the future we have star trek like replicator technology and we can replicate atom for atom meat. Would you be okay with consumption of it? This meat is exactly like all good clean meat, it was replicated and did not come from an animal. Would you be okay with that?

I ask this because something like this is becoming a future. You can grow cells in dishes if you provide them with the same nutrients they would receive in a body and i’m sure some other complicated steps and methods. These cells grow as if they were muscle cells in an animal. There is no genetic modification, nothing, it is simple growth of cells as they occur in nature. All that is being removed is the animal body that usually facilitates this growth. Now remember these cells are exactly the same types of cells you would find in the meat of an animal. It is straight up meat, there is nothing different about it other than the way it received its nutrients to allow replication.

 

[cargau]

Dear GottaKnow, Ghoti, BiologyBrain, and others, I have just been given information from one of CAF’s veterinarians that you may want to check out for yourselves.

***Catholic Concern for Animals exists to influence the Christian Church and, ultimately the wider society, into adopting a more just, understanding and compassionate attitude towards the animal creation. We research and disseminate authentic teachings of the Catholic Tradition, and of other religious beliefs, to help bring about a way of living in accordance with the Creator’s design. We support and encourage those working towards these aims.

We believe that all life is God-given and therefore to be highly respected – and that life, of course, includes all human life, particularly that of the most vulnerable, the unborn, and the terminally ill or dying. We hold strongly to a pro-life approach, both for humans and for sentient non-humans, and resist any suggestion that we care ‘only’ for animals at the expense of human life.***

all-creatures.org/ca/

You response is entirely reasonable and well stated. Yet, it mystifies me that so many of the animal protection advocates are pro-choice. Now that makes no sense to me…

 

[GottaKnow]

Just a hypothetical to understand where you vegans are coming from. IF in the future we have star trek like replicator technology and we can replicate atom for atom meat. Would you be okay with consumption of it? This meat is exactly like all good clean meat, it was replicated and did not come from an animal. Would you be okay with that?

I ask this because something like this is becoming a future. You can grow cells in dishes if you provide them with the same nutrients they would receive in a body and i’m sure some other complicated steps and methods. These cells grow as if they were muscle cells in an animal. There is no genetic modification, nothing, it is simple growth of cells as they occur in nature. All that is being removed is the animal body that usually facilitates this growth. Now remember these cells are exactly the same types of cells you would find in the meat of an animal. It is straight up meat, there is nothing different about it other than the way it received its nutrients to allow replication.

Reminiscent of “The Matrix”-oh,BTW-here is a fun video
youtube.com/watch?v=IMOAaciER6o

 

[GottaKnow]

… Yet, it mystifies me that so many of the animal protection advocates are pro-choice. Now that makes no sense to me…

I, too, am dumbfounded by the apparent hypocrisy of concern for animals as being more important than concern for humans.

 

[Abbadon]

Reminiscent of “The Matrix”-oh,BTW-here is a fun video
youtube.com/watch?v=IMOAaciER6o

What? Noooo… There are NO animals used in this process I repeat NO animal, there is no consciousness here… Just replicating meat cells. This took me like half an hour to explain to the one vegan girl I know… She kept babbling on about animals this and that, then we got into what is a cell, then it was plants are cells, your eating baby plants… Okay I’m going to say this in caps that might work NO CONSCIOUSNESS IS USED IN THIS PROCESS, other than the thousands of phd students that sacrificed their, lives, to them we take a moment in science.

Oh also in response to the matrix. There is nothing really wrong with the matrix as the humans are not suffering, I mean what is reality other than what we perceive anyway? Do we have some sort of right to perceive the correct reality? But that is a whole other topic…

 

[Abbadon]

Oh interesting thing on that thread on youtube. I can understand reasons for not drinking milk, but why not eating unfertilized, unforced, freerange eggs?

 

[cathybramble]

Yes but I love hunting, it brings me great pleasure, even the act of skinning and preserving the hide, I leave the cutting and butchering to my mom and dad. And I am no way near at par with my mothers cooking. Like I said before becoming a vegan would be alot of work for my mother to do, if she were to choose to be vegan we would be eating mainly vegan, but she knows how much we all love our meats so she wouldn’t/

i just think it’s remarkable that someone who enjoys killing, dismembering, and skinning God’s creatures says that being vegan is going to “insane” lengths. methink perhaps you are not the best judge of what is “sane” and what is not.

Or unless you enjoy the taste of meat./quote

so, given the consequences of industrial meat production… injustice to the poor, the generation of deadly virii and bacteria… pollution and waste of common resources… the horrible suffering of animals… the more important thing is that people “enjoy the taste of meat”?

wow. thing is, most people would equally enjoy the taste of vegan ratatouille… if they ever tried it…

 

[Cracker_Mom]

i just think it’s remarkable that someone who enjoys killing, dismembering, and skinning God’s creatures says that being vegan is going to “insane” lengths. methink perhaps you are not the best judge of what is “sane” and what is not.

Or unless you enjoy the taste of meat.

 

[cathybramble]

how many grams of vegitable matter would you have to eat to recieve the same amount of proteins, iron and nutrients found in 500g of meat. Or even how many g to 1g… whatever I just want a comparison

you do have to eat more vegetable matter to get sufficient calories - but i’m not sure it would take much more nutrition-wise. i tracked my food for a few weeks on livestrong.com, and found that every day i was getting sufficient protein and MOST nutrients without even trying.

Well I don’t see how E.Coli would be contaminating other foods. without direct contact. That would be problems of the distributer and supplier.
Yea well some people drive cars, I ride a bike and take public transport, I’m not complaining…
And well viruses are something your going to have to live and deal with, and cross species transitions don’t just happen with breed livestock, remember the HIV viruses?
And well if you don’t like breathing second hand smoke I suggest you move, I usually head upwind.
As for the robbery, well there are laws against that regardless of the drugs/

e. coli and salmonella get in the groundwater and soil from factory farms. the link is there - the strains that cause people to get very sick (the ones found in the sprouts, peppers, tomatoes, and spinach)… are generally too virulent to survive very long in wild populations. i.e., in the wild, the animals who carried it would tend to get sick and die from it. these strains are the product of a high density of animals kept on low doses of antibiotics over long periods of time.

as for driving cars vs riding public transport… that’s awesome. i wish we had a viable system here. my take on anything we do to help the environment is that in order for people to do these things, there has to be a reasonable alternative… around here, you can easily get meat alternatives, beans, rice, nuts, the occasional boca burger, etc… but getting a bus or riding safely to work… not easy at all.

it is not good enough btw, to say that people who smoke have a right to pollute and people who don’t smoke just have to move away from it. the courts have said so. but how do you move away from the filth of these corporate animal operations when your whole town or village is sick from the pollution? the PEW commission did a study on communities where factory farming exists, you should check it out sometime. why should industrial animal production take precedence over entire communities, forcing people to uproot their whole lives, people who had been there for generations?

 

[cathybramble]

How about injustice to poor Americans trying to feed their families at WalMart?
Again, Jesus ate fish & hung out with folks who made a living killing God’s creatures,(fish.)

if you have absolutely no alternative, then you have to do what you have to do. the killing of God’s creatures has changed quite a lot since Jesus’ time… i doubt God is happy at all with what we are doing to His creatures and the earth He gave us. He allows it but IMO there will be retribution, either here or after death. not one sparrow falls that He doesn’t know about… i think He’ll have plenty to say about the 14 BILLION animals we factory farm every year, the poor who are exploited, and the destruction of the environment that our gluttony is causing.

the biggest problem i think… is that we have been lied to. we have been told all our lives that we must eat meat and dairy in order to be healthy. there is a huge push right now to re-do the USDA food pyramid to change names like “meat group” to “protein group” because it’s misleading and biased to the meat industry. the government has no business telling us how to get our protein if one form is as good as another (and it is). the government has pandered to the meat and dairy industries to keep our GNP up and help the economy… but the result is millions of uninsured americans with diet-related illnesses that they will die from, and we see that obama wants to provide government-funded insurance to them. you see, we will all pay, one way or another.

wal-mart and america’s poor are a vicious cycle that needs to be broken, that’s a whole different topic .

 

[GottaKnow]

how many grams of vegitable matter would you have to eat to recieve the same amount of proteins, iron and nutrients found in 500g of meat. Or even how many g to 1g… whatever I just want a comparison

Just for you ,Abby…:thumbsup:Even though it is way off topic… I assembled this to show how barley compares to beef.Fromthecaloriecounter.com/

Beef,ground,frozen patties (approximately 23%fat), raw

Nutrition Facts
Serving Size 3 oz (85g)
Amount Per Serving
Calories 240 Calories from Fat 177​

                             % Daily Value*

Total Fat 19.7g…30%
Saturated Fat8g…40%
Polyunsaturated Fat0.8g
Monounsaturated Fat8.6g
Cholesterol67.2mg…22%
Sodium57.8mg…2%
Potassium210.8mg…6%
Total Carbohydrate0g…0%
Dietary Fiber0g…0%
Protein14.5g…27%​

Vitamin A 0% • Vitamin C…0%
Calcium 1% • Iron…8%​

• Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet. Your daily values may be higher or lower depending on your calorie needs:
  Calories: 2,000 2,500
  Total Fat Less than 65g 80g
  Sat Fat Less than 20g 25g
  Cholesterol Less than 300mg 300mg
  Potassium 2,400mg 2,400mg
  Total Carbohydrate 300g 375g
  Dietary Fiber 25g 30g

---

Barley

Nutrition Facts
Serving Size 1 cup (184g)
Amount Per Serving
Calories 651 Calories from Fat 38​

                                % Daily Value*

Total Fat 4.2g…7%
Saturated Fat 0.9g…4%
Polyunsaturated Fat 2g
Monounsaturated Fat 0.5g
Cholesterol 0mg…0%
Sodium 22.1mg…1%
Potassium 831.7mg…24%
Total Carbohydrate 135.2g…45%
Dietary Fiber 31.8g…11%
Sugars 1.5g…0%
Protein 23g…43%​

Vitamin A 1% • Vitamin C 0%
Calcium 6 • Iron 37%​

• Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet. Your daily values may be higher or lower depending on your calorie needs:
  Calories: 2,000 2,500
  Total Fat Less than 65g 80g
  Sat Fat Less than 20g 25g
  Cholesterol Less than 300mg 300mg
  Potassium 2,400mg 2,400mg
  Total Carbohydrate 300g 375g
  Dietary Fiber 25g 30g

---

Granted one serving is 100 more grams than beef. But, just barley compared to beef is so much healthier for you.Although it takes far less beef in volume than barley to get full, consider that the average American consumes way more than they really need to because they aren’t “full”. It is no wonder that cholesterol levels are through the roof!
You see, we have this notion that one should eat until they are “full”. Some of us are even victims of “the clean plate club”. This leads to being overweight, if not obese. How, you ask? Because each time you stuff your belly it stretches. Consequently over time it takes more food to fill your belly.Therefore, it takes more food to make you feel “full” each time.
The proper habit is to just stop eating when you are no longer hungry.(But, trust me, I eat sometimes just because it tastes good,…but I also have virtually no body fat. I am 46 yrs old.)
Cows are fed barley.Barley is the first grain to ripen in the spring; wheat is next and it
takes 4-6 weeks longer to mature.Barley grows very well in alkaline soil, so it comes as no surprise that the green leaves of barley test, in the laboratory, as one of the most alkaline of all natural foods. Spinach is its next rival in alkalinity but is only about 40
percent as alkaline as Barley Green, for example.
It is well known in medical circles that many diseases thrive in an acid-medium; only a few can survive an alkaline pH. Recently an M.D. made the statement that the pH of the average American is 5.4 instead of the ideal 7.35-7.45. Why is this? Our systemic acid condition may be attributed to our high intake of meat (beef, pork, veal, chicken, turkey, etc.), high sugar and soft-drink consumption and excessive consumption of preserved foods. This puts us outside of God’s design for our optimal functioning. Many Americans are plagued, therefore, with unhealthy bodies due to this.
I could rant and rave about this all day. I am not nutritionist. Just a construction guy. But, I am Vegan and I do my research. It isn’t as easy as just trusting McGarbage or Cholesterol-in-the-box. But, it is enlightening and we save so much money eating at home and cooking our own meals. We even raise some of our own veggies!!!
But, I should stop here because it would be easy for me to get even further off topic. This is supposed to be about the humane treatment of animals. I ask myself, though; with all the trouble we go through to get meat, why is a family pet any different than a farm animal? If you slaughtered your dog you would go to jail. Am I the only one who thinks this is somehow a double standard?

 

[cathybramble]

What? Noooo… There are NO animals used in this process I repeat NO animal, there is no consciousness here… Just replicating meat cells. This took me like half an hour to explain to the one vegan girl I know… She kept babbling on about animals this and that, then we got into what is a cell, then it was plants are cells, your eating baby plants… Okay I’m going to say this in caps that might work NO CONSCIOUSNESS IS USED IN THIS PROCESS, other than the thousands of phd students that sacrificed their, lives, to them we take a moment in science.

i have had this discussion and had to research it… i learned that fetal animals are used in the process. sure, it would alleviate a lot of suffering while allowing people to still glut themselves on products that will make them unhealthy, but no i don’t find it ideal.

i don’t really care what people eat, provided that they keep the filth to themselves and don’t cause injustice and suffering to others (human or animal).

Oh also in response to the matrix. There is nothing really wrong with the matrix as the humans are not suffering, I mean what is reality other than what we perceive anyway? Do we have some sort of right to perceive the correct reality? But that is a whole other topic…

there is a huge difference between harm and suffering.
you can harm someone without causing them to suffer - do you think abortion would be okay if we anesthetize the fetus before ripping it apart? of course not, if you are pro-life, you are against harming that life, not just making it suffer.

 

[Michaeljc4]

Modern livestock producers actually allow low income folks like myself to be able to afford to eat meat & serve it to my children. At least occasionally.
If you look back to the good old days, meat was a luxury.

It should remain a luxury. While I want you and your children to be healthy, the price meat consumption exacts on other poor people far outweighs any health benefit you may incur by eating meat. Meat, as it is currently produced for the majority of Americans, is full of hormones, antibiotics, and other nastiness. You don’t have to take my word for it: look all of this up for yourself, then decide what’s best for your and your kids.

One thing to add: becoming a vegetarian has made me really think about what I eat. I’ve lost ten pounds just by skipping out on meat and eating healthier. Yet another benefit of vegetarianism.