4
4elise
Guest
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OF COURSE - and… what else? - OR is that it?
- Status
OF COURSE - and… what else? - OR is that it?
M
Marfran
Guest
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
4
4elise
Guest
The discussion on this thread is about the way animals are raised for food in factory farming - to use your words - “the problem with”… people who aren’t vegans - they don’t seem to be able to make the connection between how we are to take care of all of God’s creation and what is on their dinner plate. That is the liner connection I’ve made.I’d also point out that there have been some interesting reports on news programs regarding plants “feeling” in some mysterious sense. I’d suspect that part of the problem with Vegans is that they greatly oversimplify the complexity and diversity of plant and animal life on the planet. They have what could be called a linear way of looking and analyzing information–usually to support their positions, which are positions which strangely resemble religious convictions. Although it’s been a while since I studied the heresy of Manichaeism (which Saint Augustine opposed and battled in his writings), there also seem some to be some similarities in regards to the dietary restrictions of these heretics and the beliefs of Vegans. As such, it would not seem possible for a well-informed Catholic to hold Vegan convictions.
Here is a good passage to read from Acts Chapter 10.
**9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray.
10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.
11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.
12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air.
13Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”**
In short, in order to be truly consistent and honest, it seems that the logical approach for Vegans is to stop eating altogether.
The difference between plant and animal seems to be one even children understand -
but here is a bit more information: io.uwinnipeg.ca/~simmons/Chap3298/sld002.htm that might be helpful if you have never taken a bio class.
And honestly - not getting your connection to heresy of Manichaeism - I’ve never heard a vegan here or anywhere else say that Jesus was not born of Mary and did not die on the cross - and haven’t found anyone here claiming that vegetables are sentient beings, anyone who has ever been around animals - be it a dog, cat, pig, cow knows the difference.
It is possible to have respectful discussions on these topics - many have done so - it would be my hope that more would.
C
Cracker_Mom
Guest
Who is talking about judging??
The basis of this thread is a video produced by extreme animal rights fanatics who are not concerned so much about the food industry as banning all meat production, pet ownership, lab animals,hunting,fishing,…you name it.It’s like a religion to them.Or takes the place of religion.
They are not for “sustainable farming” if it involves livestock in any way.
I don’t like misrepresentation or organizations linked to terrorism.
It’s a free country but I question why this sort of propaganda would appear on a Christian site? And why would there be a question of open discussion? Can you air propaganda & not be questioned about it?
Eating meat’s a personal choice. Many religious communities practice this.Our family abstains every Friday. And truthfully eats very little the rest of the week unless we can find something marked down.But the video this thread appears to be based on is not about choosing to become a vegetarian or “saving the planet”, it’s about recruiting “useful idiots” for an extremist agenda.
(And no, I’m not calling vegans idiots, I’m referencing communist lingo.)
C
Cracker_Mom
Guest
The meaning of this passage from Acts should be pretty clear to Christians who are overwhelmingly descendants of those Gentiles St. Peter was instructed to dine with & convert.But that would be too easy…It doesn’t really mean those foods are now OK under the New Covenant…I’d also point out that there have been some interesting reports on news programs regarding plants “feeling” in some mysterious sense. I’d suspect that part of the problem with Vegans is that they greatly oversimplify the complexity and diversity of plant and animal life on the planet. They have what could be called a linear way of looking and analyzing information–usually to support their positions, which are positions which strangely resemble religious convictions. Although it’s been a while since I studied the heresy of Manichaeism (which Saint Augustine opposed and battled in his writings), there also seem some to be some similarities in regards to the dietary restrictions of these heretics and the beliefs of Vegans. As such, it would not seem possible for a well-informed Catholic to hold Vegan convictions.
Here is a good passage to read from Acts Chapter 10.
**9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray.
10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.
11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.
12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air.
13Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”**
In short, in order to be truly consistent and honest, it seems that the logical approach for Vegans is to stop eating altogether.
God was just kidding.
T
That_one_guy
Guest
They are not going to go away and the moderators are obviously on their side. So, ytr the ignore function. That is what I finally did.
C
cathybramble
Guest
i have posted links to unbiased sources that support everything i’m saying. no one is responding to those. what say you about the link i put up on antibiotic resistance from the PEW commission, or the sustainable farming link to the pollution issues? and NO ONE has posted anything that denies these issues. find me a government web site that says that antibiotic resistance and intense pollution are NOT a problem with factory farming.Who is talking about judging??
The basis of this thread is a video produced by extreme animal rights fanatics who are not concerned so much about the food industry as banning all meat production, pet ownership, lab animals,hunting,fishing,…you name it.It’s like a religion to them.Or takes the place of religion.
They are not for “sustainable farming” if it involves livestock in any way.
I don’t like misrepresentation or organizations linked to terrorism.
It’s a free country but I question why this sort of propaganda would appear on a Christian site? And why would there be a question of open discussion? Can you air propaganda & not be questioned about it?
Eating meat’s a personal choice. Many religious communities practice this.Our family abstains every Friday. And truthfully eats very little the rest of the week unless we can find something marked down.But the video this thread appears to be based on is not about choosing to become a vegetarian or “saving the planet”, it’s about recruiting “useful idiots” for an extremist agenda.
(And no, I’m not calling vegans idiots, I’m referencing communist lingo.)
the only sites you will find that do that, are interest groups of animal agriculture. talk about useful idiots to an agenda… they convince people every day that you have to eat their products in order to be healthy, all the while raising diseased animals, and making the world a more toxic place to live. and i’m sorry to say, most people have bought into their lies. “you have to drink milk, you have to eat meat. i need meat. i need cheese.” in fact, you don’t, and there are enough healthy vegetarians around to prove it. the cheese ads, dairy council ads, beef, pork, and egg ads - those are ALL propaganda that millions of people believe every day… but if we have the wherewithall to link to just one PETA video all hell breaks loose. i’d say you are judging us, not the other way around.
C
cathybramble
Guest
the new covenant does not say you have to eat meat. again, that is a lie that multibillion dollar corporations have sold you. don’t confuse the bible with con-agra or smithfield. no one here has said you cannot eat meat or that any meat is inherently unclean. but people can make it unclean if the are abusing animals, people, and the earth in order to produce it. the position most of us have is that people should stop supporting that. we understand the bible passage quite well.The meaning of this passage from Acts should be pretty clear to Christians who are overwhelmingly descendants of those Gentiles St. Peter was instructed to dine with & convert.But that would be too easy…It doesn’t really mean those foods are now OK under the New Covenant…
S
SuzySunshine
Guest
Hi, Im new. I didn’t vote in the poll because my group wasnt represented. I am an omnivore because I was raised that way, not because God made me that way. I think that eating meat is a cultural thing. I am a very good cook. I learned how to cook from my mother, also a very good cook, and even took some culinary classes. Part of the reason my husband was attracted to me, he says, was because of my cooking skills. Now we have a child that will not eat meat. At first I was very distressed. She got this idea from a classmate. I had to start thinking about what I was feeding her. She wouldnt eat what the rest of the family was eating. Then I discovered other families, all Catholic, who were experiencing the same problems with their kids. And I also discovered that the other families did not view it as a problem, but as a challenge and a growth experience. So I have opened my mind and have been doing reading and research and trying new recipes. I have been reading some of these postings here and the thing that really strikes me is the meaness in some of the responses. I am not so familiar with PETA but I know that it is only one organization. There is a lot of information out there that has nothing to do with that group. When I was growing up kids didnt have a clue as to where meat came from or how it was made or killed. Nowadays you cant hide some of these facts. I think the kids are on to something. Meat contributes to a lot of disease and people eat way too much of it, not because they need it but because it is a cultural food item. The nutrition experts have been gradually changing their tune. Even my husband wants to eat healthier. I have a lot to learn yet, but it seems that God is calling all of us to take a closer look.
T
That_one_guy
Guest
Hi,Suzy:wave:
Welcome t CAF!
You are right. The kids are on to something. (out of the mouths of babes…)
C
cathybramble
Guest
apparently once you take that first dangerous step into killing bacteria and plants, you can rationalize killing anything, and if you don’t, you’re a hypocrite.
if you cut down grain to make bread, then you might as well go and kill an animal. but it seems to me that if you follow that to its logical conclusion, then if you kill animals, you should kill people as well, or you will also be a hypocrite, right? 
C
Cracker_Mom
Guest
The name & basis of this thread is a PETA propaganda video. That is what I find issue with.Not folks who choose to abstain from meat.Even if they have funky ideas & views of the world that I would differ from.
It’s a free country & it’s your right.
S
SuzySunshine
Guest
Maybe someone should pick another video so that this lady doesnt get so mad. I didnt look at the video. Maybe I should.The name & basis of this thread is a PETA propaganda video. That is what I find issue with.Not folks who choose to abstain from meat.Even if they have funky ideas & views of the world that I would differ from.
It’s a free country & it’s your right.
C
cathybramble
Guest
welcome suzy!
yes the information age has certainly brought out a lot of … information about things we didn’t used to know about. good for you, for being open minded to your daughter’s choices. many of my friends are flexitarians - we didn’t plan it that way, but i think you’re right, more people are starting to eat more healthy.
as far as meat being cultural, it certainly is. my 2 year old grandbaby seems to be a natural vegan… she hasn’t been culturated to anything yet (my daughter feeds her the regular american diet, she eats vegan food at my house). but i’m like you, love to cook and am good at it. i even bake my own bread. the comment i get all the time is that she eats better at my house than anywhere else. she wants bananas and oranges and vegetables, and that is what we always have on hand. never seen a child eat hummus or olives the way she does
we figure it is a good thing to expose her to such a variety of foods. and they say that eating habits start young, so ultimately she will have experience with many things in order to make good choices for herself, even if she doesn’t choose to be vegetarian.
S
SuzySunshine
Guest
I went to the video but it was difficult to watch. I had to turn the screen off and just listen. I came here because of the catchy title of this discussion and was hoping to learn something.
C
cathybramble
Guest
ok but the peta video is not the only information that we are using to support what we’re saying.The name & basis of this thread is a PETA propaganda video. That is what I find issue with.Not folks who choose to abstain from meat.Even if they have funky ideas & views of the world that I would differ from.
It’s a free country & it’s your right.
still no comments on the other links i put up? neither the pew commission or the sustainable farming site are terrorists, i promise
C
cathybramble
Guest
i can’t watch those videos myself anymore.
S
SuzySunshine
Guest
You are very calm and not like the other lady. I guess I kind of understand why people dont like the peta organization but there is so much information out there that is not connected to that specific group. We have pets and love them very much and it does not make sense that some animals are treated one way and other animals are treated differently and even cruelly. You would think that animals that we eat would be treated much better because we should be thankful for what they give us. I am working hard to feed my daughter good food and also understand why our society is moving away from meat. I saw the author of The Omnivores Diet on television. He promotes eating way less meat. I dont think he is associated with the peta group. I guess the mad lady doesnt want people to stop eating meat alltogether. Like I said I have an open mind but am not sure where this road will go. Right now I am concerned for my child. I should support her and learn and will not force her to eat the diet that I grew up with–because maybe it is all wrong.welcome suzy!
yes the information age has certainly brought out a lot of … information about things we didn’t used to know about. good for you, for being open minded to your daughter’s choices. many of my friends are flexitarians - we didn’t plan it that way, but i think you’re right, more people are starting to eat more healthy.
as far as meat being cultural, it certainly is. my 2 year old grandbaby seems to be a natural vegan… she hasn’t been culturated to anything yet (my daughter feeds her the regular american diet, she eats vegan food at my house). but i’m like you, love to cook and am good at it. i even bake my own bread. the comment i get all the time is that she eats better at my house than anywhere else. she wants bananas and oranges and vegetables, and that is what we always have on hand. never seen a child eat hummus or olives the way she does
we figure it is a good thing to expose her to such a variety of foods. and they say that eating habits start young, so ultimately she will have experience with many things in order to make good choices for herself, even if she doesn’t choose to be vegetarian.
M
Marfran
Guest
Cracker Mom: You should change your name to The Mad Lady !!! How fun is that!!! I’m lovin’ it!!!
Crack M: Please don’t take that the wrong way. I love everybody. Even the mad ones!!!
Boy, it’s quiet here today. You could hear a pin drop. Everybody must be eating.
T
That_one_guy
Guest
We’re all mad in some little way or anotherCracker Mom: You should change your name to The Mad Lady !!! How fun is that!!! I’m lovin’ it!!!
Crack M: Please don’t take that the wrong way. I love everybody. Even the mad ones!!!
Boy, it’s quiet here today. You could hear a pin drop. Everybody must be eating.
- Status