Anime Thread #3: You Can (Not) Repost

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I guess, I don’t worry about how others are going to take or view an anime. In the west reviewers or critics often put meaning in the shows here that I would have never seen on my own. Heck there were people her claiming that Frozen was promoting homosexuality, (you can look it up). And all you have to do is search for the Harry Potter threads on this forum to see that people are calling that sinful because it “promotes witchcraft.”
This is about how the fandoms receive it, there is a big problem with certain areas of them, mainly regarding the fanaticism for fanservice, yaoi, yuri, and recently, incest.
I don’t get involved in fandoms or fanfic. I only look up wikis on anime if I need help figuring out what is going on or keeping up with characters, or recently with Attack on Titan just to see who else dies, because I just couldn’t take it anymore. (BTW I finished the first season and still don’t see what the appeal is, that story is bloodier than a George R.R. Martin novel).

I can see pointing our particularly questionable parts of a show or using disclaimers, when discussing or recommending (or not) shows.

But I don’t normally even look up anime before deciding to watch it. I will watch the first 2 episodes to determine it if is worth my time.
I check various sources before watching a show. I don’t like to waste time with certain series.
Recently I watched Bladedance of Elementalers, but the fanservice was horrendous. And when discussing that anime, that would of course be mentioned and warned against to anyone interested in watching.

You seem more disturbed by the unnatural homosexual relationships than the fan service in general. But to me, the fanservice shows an unnatural view of women (in fact the way rape is often threatened or suggested towards female characters bears this out). That is not to say we shouldn’t be concerned about promoting sinful behavior, but most of what I have seen in this regard is really innocent compared to the objectification of women in the a lot of otherwise seemingly benign anime.
What is disturbing too, is how well both of these things are received.

Of course certain types of fanservice are very disturbing, and shouldn’t be watched either. Mainly because these could be ocassion of sin, and the general prohibition against pornography from the Catechism and the 9th Commandment.

God bless you!
 
I thought there would be more discussion of anime in general rather than how media affects sin in here… In summary I believe that as adults and Catholics we can have the intelligence, willpower and faith to discern what we watch and enjoy a good show without sodomizing each other; in teh same way we can play a shooting game without shooting up a school.

For now I’ll go check out other parts of the forum; if anyone wants to talk anime just make a post.
Well, why both things shouldn’t be discussed here? after all, I don’t think these things are going to be discussed in typical anime blogs or sites, outside the absurd approach of certain objectivization talk… when people attack some types of fanservice because they think is demenaning, etc, but if the character is “comfortable” (or another excuse they can think of) with it, they don’t see it a problem (please…).

Of course someone well formed isn’t going to be affected by it (mostly, people affected are fans of the stuff, or people that even become lgbt suporters after watching and becoming obsessive fans of fujoshi-bait series [yes, I know about people like that], and people that find these an ocassion of sin), but the point is… should we watch things gloryfing that sin, even if isn’t an ocassion of sin for us?

God bless you!
 
I’m watching Toradora again.

Someone else likes that series?

There is a recent show I’m watching too. World Trigger. The story is interesting, but the animation quality and pacing are not that good. A general question, how important is the artwork or animation quality for you? can you watch an entire series with quality problems?

God bless you!
 
Attack on Titan disgusts me. I mean, I’m all for GoT-style gore. However, there’s only so much blood and organs you can send flying around before I need something to counterbalance it. Failure means I am growing to like your work less.

But worst still are character deaths. That’s like the rotten corpse that tops off the steaming pile of refuse of which the anime just impressed upon me. My tolerance for killing off characters is low enough as it is without an author being so openly blatant about it and plays cards like character development, realism, and style as an excuse.
I like Attack on Titan. It’s weird, because I don’t think of myself as really appreciating violent media, but I think it bothers me less in animated form. I like the characters, but I also really like the setting, and I want to find out more about the titans and their origin. 🙂

And obviously that is a matter of taste. I think the animation and presentation are objectively good, but obviously that isn’t going to matter if one doesn’t appreciate the story being told in the first place.
True I’ve been quite critical myself of a lot things. But you know, it’s a whole lot different from when you do it for the raw sake of upholding some elusive ‘standard’ (be it moral or otherwise). You forget a lot of things that define your humanity. And in this case, you forget that the sole reason for watching all this is to simply enjoy it.
I disagree that enjoyment is the only reason for fiction. I try to watch fiction that will make me more like the person I want to be- fiction that will prompt me to think, that will inspire me to do better, that will help me to empathize with people who are different than me. Of course I also watch it for enjoyment, but that’s almost never the only reason.
Why can’t people just say, “I like it cuz I like this sort of stuff.”? 🤷
I actually can’t stand this sentiment. :o

For me, one of the main positive effects of fiction is the discussion that it provokes, both in fan communities and in the general population. Now, obviously when these discussions devolve into screaming matches about ships or the general quality of a show, they’re no longer useful at all. But I find that I’m always prompting people to explain what they liked about a piece of fiction, why it was important to them, why it made them feel things and what those feelings were. In casual conversation, I do it because I want to get to know them better and understand what sorts of things are important to them. In fan communities, I do it because I want to more fully appreciate the work through the perspectives of other people.

I always get so annoyed when people go to a movie and then say “I liked it”, but when I ask them why, they only say something like “It was a good movie”. I do know that a lot of people don’t like to analyze why they feel something like that, so I try to be polite, but that’s definitely not how I feel. I want the fiction I love to become a part of me, a tool that I use to relate to the world around me, and I want to know how it affects the other people who see it, too. 😛

And I think that’s part of why I do think it’s important to discuss whether a work of fiction was objectively good or bad. Some things are merely matters of taste, but there are right and wrong ways to do things, and there are good and bad messages to communicate through fiction. That’s the stuff I really want to dig into. I want to praise good fiction for the things it gets right, and denigrate bad fiction for the things it gets wrong. Obviously with anime there isn’t much chance of changing the sort of stories that get made, and that’s fine. But even there, how we react to these stories determines what kind of stories we’ll create, and that’s important.

That said. I’ve been getting more involved in a couple of fandoms lately (not anime fandoms, alas), and all of the above is really only interesting as long as people stick to discussing the work itself and avoid bashing other fans. I don’t think I really understood how brutal ship wars can get until the last couple months, and this is an old fandom, one that’s basically done getting new canon at this point. Eek. It’s one thing to criticize something on a show, and quite another to attack other fans or silence dissenting discussion. That’s never going to be useful or helpful to anybody.
I’m watching Toradora again.

Someone else likes that series?

There is a recent show I’m watching too. World Trigger. The story is interesting, but the animation quality and pacing are not that good. A general question, how important is the artwork or animation quality for you? can you watch an entire series with quality problems?

God bless you!
I don’t really like stories with bad/distracting art or animation, generally, although bad/distracting art bothers me more in manga than in anime. It’s a major reason why I haven’t tried watching One Piece (everybody just looks so weird to me!), and a reason why I didn’t finish the Fruits Basket anime (which was really static, and I wasn’t motivated because the manga is already magnificent).

What I saw of Toradora was cute, but I didn’t finish it. :o
 
I disagree that enjoyment is the only reason for fiction. I try to watch fiction that will make me more like the person I want to be- fiction that will prompt me to think, that will inspire me to do better, that will help me to empathize with people who are different than me. Of course I also watch it for enjoyment, but that’s almost never the only reason.
Good point, there are various reasons for watching or reading something.
I actually can’t stand this sentiment. :o

For me, one of the main positive effects of fiction is the discussion that it provokes, both in fan communities and in the general population. Now, obviously when these discussions devolve into screaming matches about ships or the general quality of a show, they’re no longer useful at all. But I find that I’m always prompting people to explain what they liked about a piece of fiction, why it was important to them, why it made them feel things and what those feelings were. In casual conversation, I do it because I want to get to know them better and understand what sorts of things are important to them. In fan communities, I do it because I want to more fully appreciate the work through the perspectives of other people.
I like to known about the motivations behind people in fandoms, and to analyze how the productions they consume can influence people. I agree that shipping wars are absurd, but, what motivates shipping?
I always get so annoyed when people go to a movie and then say “I liked it”, but when I ask them why, they only say something like “It was a good movie”. I do know that a lot of people don’t like to analyze why they feel something like that, so I try to be polite, but that’s definitely not how I feel. I want the fiction I love to become a part of me, a tool that I use to relate to the world around me, and I want to know how it affects the other people who see it, too. 😛
Also, that practically reduces discussions to matter of taste, and that limits these a lot. Taste is not the only element to have in mind, there are lots of elements to analyze and study, for example.
And I think that’s part of why I do think it’s important to discuss whether a work of fiction was objectively good or bad. Some things are merely matters of taste, but there are right and wrong ways to do things, and there are good and bad messages to communicate through fiction. That’s the stuff I really want to dig into. I want to praise good fiction for the things it gets right, and denigrate bad fiction for the things it gets wrong. Obviously with anime there isn’t much chance of changing the sort of stories that get made, and that’s fine. But even there, how we react to these stories determines what kind of stories we’ll create, and that’s important.
That’s a good point. Fan productions, and eventually, original ones. These are influenced by varius factors, one of them, the series, books, etc. consumed. Something that interest me, is the discussions about moral regarding productions, said discussions aren’t very common, outside the example I mentioned in recent posts.
That said. I’ve been getting more involved in a couple of fandoms lately (not anime fandoms, alas), and all of the above is really only interesting as long as people stick to discussing the work itself and avoid bashing other fans. I don’t think I really understood how brutal ship wars can get until the last couple months, and this is an old fandom, one that’s basically done getting new canon at this point. Eek. It’s one thing to criticize something on a show, and quite another to attack other fans or silence dissenting discussion. That’s never going to be useful or helpful to anybody.
Basically, there are various things at play, disordered or inordinate attachment to the series they like, or to fandoms. Some people that are easily influenced by fandoms, consider these some sort of close friends group (or even the only one, if they are lonely offline), or even a family. A feedback of the unsavory elements is generated, ans since some of them are very self-congratulatory, that generates many problems for the fan.

I have noticed a religious respect towards series and fandoms in general. I have observed that in tumblr, facebook pages, and in blogs and forums. But because of the more visual style of tumblr of facebook publications, I think that is easier to notice there.

And, that contributes to some people taking the criticism to the stuff they like as something very personal, and are easily offended when questioned about their favorite productions, or fandom involvements.

God bless you!
 
I don’t really like stories with bad/distracting art or animation, generally, although bad/distracting art bothers me more in manga than in anime. It’s a major reason why I haven’t tried watching One Piece (everybody just looks so weird to me!), and a reason why I didn’t finish the Fruits Basket anime (which was really static, and I wasn’t motivated because the manga is already magnificent).

What I saw of Toradora was cute, but I didn’t finish it. :o
In World Trigger isn’t very distracting, and the backgrounds have certain painterly quality so that balances it. Also, that anime doesn’t has fanservice, so that is a plus.

How is Fruits Basket? what is about?

Anything to mention regarding content warnings?

In manga, bad quality is more noticeable, since you observe the images for a longer time, compared to anime, where being animated means that some character being off-model, or noticeable bad quality scenes aren’t going to show for a long time (usually).

Why you didn’t continued Toradora?

God bless you!
 
Chaika The Coffin Princess Season 2 ended. Last episode was rushed but ending was permissible. Overall this is a very nice good series. Both Seasons are well recommended.
Season 2 had more Vivi but unfortunately not enough. Still white Chaika makes up for it with her eyebrows. 🙂

Yuki Yuna is A Hero Anyone following this? I want the series to end to see if I’m willing to pick this up. It has been throwing a Madoka vibe but as long as it does not go into that fully, I’ll be willing to go with it. The story has themes of sacrifice and the characters are endearing.

Sword Art Online II - I’ve only watched halfway was surprisingly good. Kirito is lamentable but the new female lead seems to have a good backstory.

And finally for those who did not yet have the opportunity, A Certain Scientific Railgun Season 1 will soon be out on Bluray - $29.99 for the boxset. This is one of my favourite anime, despite the little bit of unrequited pseudo-Yuri, season 1 is the best. Season 2 has the ghastly and morbid “sisters” arc and totally messes up the dynamic and atmosphere of season one.

Houkago no Pleiades anime is coming! It was rated as the cutest maho shoujo anime. 🙂

And next month sees idolm@ster Cinderella Girls! 🙂
 
Chaika The Coffin Princess Season 2 ended. Last episode was rushed but ending was permissible. Overall this is a very nice good series. Both Seasons are well recommended.
Season 2 had more Vivi but unfortunately not enough. Still white Chaika makes up for it with her eyebrows. 🙂
Yes, I saw the last episode recently, it was rushed, shile other episodes of the season where rather slow.

I liked that series, and thankfully, while it has some fanservice, it isn’t in the level of the light lovel illustrations (a warning for when searching about this series, various LN illustrations of this series are vulgar, and some of the promo images too [like one they’ve put in a crunchyroll news article]), from what I’ve read about the author of the illustrations, he makes that kind of images a lot

For next year, there is an OVA continuation, that is going to be in two halves, one of them, fanservice focused.
Yuki Yuna is A Hero Anyone following this? I want the series to end to see if I’m willing to pick this up. It has been throwing a Madoka vibe but as long as it does not go into that fully, I’ll be willing to go with it. The story has themes of sacrifice and the characters are endearing.
I saw 4 episodes, at first, I thought it was going to be a good substitute for Madoka (no yuri elements, a better atmosphere, etc), but then, I saw some of the magical girl transformations… two of them have some fanservice, specially Togo’s one. I think it was vulgar, and more jarring considering the style of the series.

Yes, the characters are endearing, and cute,

At first, from a trailer, I thought it was going to be more slice of life, being a magical girl series was a surprise. I like the character designs, and the OST. I want to know the lyrics of the song used in Togo’s and Yuna’s first transformation scenes. There is a beach episode (7) from what I’ve seen in some episodic reviews.
Sword Art Online II - I’ve only watched halfway was surprisingly good. Kirito is lamentable but the new female lead seems to have a good backstory.
I haven’t watched any of the SAO seasons. How is it in general? i haven’t heard many good things from what series. Also, how is in the questionable stuff aspect, anything to warn about?
And finally for those who did not yet have the opportunity, A Certain Scientific Railgun Season 1 will soon be out on Bluray - $29.99 for the boxset. This is one of my favourite anime, despite the little bit of unrequited pseudo-Yuri, season 1 is the best. Season 2 has the ghastly and morbid “sisters” arc and totally messes up the dynamic and atmosphere of season one.
That one was the topic of the yuri discussion from one year ago.
Houkago no Pleiades anime is coming! It was rated as the cutest maho shoujo anime. 🙂
I remember about that one. Isn’t from some years ago?

I wonder if it’s a show affected by the recent shoujo ai and yuri craze, that seems to be in a trend for some magical girls shows too.
And next month sees idolm@ster Cinderella Girls! 🙂
I saw the trailer, it looks good.

God bless you!
 
Yes, I saw the last episode recently, it was rushed, shile other episodes of the season where rather slow.

I liked that series, and thankfully, while it has some fanservice, it isn’t in the level of the light lovel illustrations (a warning for when searching about this series, various LN illustrations of this series are vulgar, and some of the promo images too [like one they’ve put in a crunchyroll news article]), from what I’ve read about the author of the illustrations, he makes that kind of images a lot
It’s a Japanese manga artist 99/100 of them will have some fan service. I haven’t seen too many of these promo illustrations although I’ve looked at the JP anime site. I don’t think you’ll find anything more lewd than a ballet performance from what I’ve seen.
For next year, there is an OVA continuation, that is going to be in two halves, one of them, fanservice focused.
Would have preferred a third season. Swimsuit episode is a given, it’s like they have to do it. Swimsuit by itself is OK as long as there’s no sexual stuff. If it’s the sort of stuff you see at a beach I think it’s permissible.
I saw 4 episodes, at first, I thought it was going to be a good substitute for Madoka (no yuri elements, a better atmosphere, etc), but then, I saw some of the magical girl transformations… two of them have some fanservice, specially Togo’s one. I think it was vulgar, and more jarring considering the style of the series.
I don’t mind. I enjoy these sort of shows for the camaraderie. I’ve learned to accept that the transformations are often perverted and look past them. Magical Girl Pretty Sammy was the first with those.
Yes, the characters are endearing, and cute,
At first, from a trailer, I thought it was going to be more slice of life, being a magical girl series was a surprise. I like the character designs, and the OST. I want to know the lyrics of the song used in Togo’s and Yuna’s first transformation scenes. There is a beach episode (7) from what I’ve seen in some episodic reviews.
The little bit I saw was acceptable, IMO. It’s anime there will be some fanservice. The question is whether it’s hentai level or not and more than you’d see on a typical show in the West. Of course if it has too much fanservice that’s in your face it’s not appropriate for kids. I’m hoping the show will have a rewarding ending.

On the subject of would be dark shows there is Selector Infected WIXOSS season 2. I think it’s sparse on fanservice.
I haven’t watched any of the SAO seasons. How is it in general? i haven’t heard many good things from what series. Also, how is in the questionable stuff aspect, anything to warn about?
SAO II is better than I. There is a mystery to the first part of the season and the girl protagonist has a nice backstory she has to overcome. Kirito looks a bit like a girl in the game he plays. I think second part has some fanservice like a tail on that girl, and Kirito actually grabs it freaking her out. Mind u that’s from a screen grab.
That one was the topic of the yuri discussion from one year ago.
Yes indeed. It’s still one of the best shows IMO. I’d have removed much of that would be Yuri stuff - it’s unrequited - but we have to make do with what we have.
I remember about that one. Isn’t from some years ago?
There is a sequel/remake.
I wonder if it’s a show affected by the recent shoujo ai and yuri craze, that seems to be in a trend for some magical girls shows too.
I hope not. Still a bit of deep emotional sisterly attachment is more than welcome. No lewd stuff mind you or any sexual stuff. The characters have to care for each other but I agree lesbian stuff is not needed.
God bless you!
Likewise God bless You!
 
It’s a Japanese manga artist 99/100 of them will have some fan service. I haven’t seen too many of these promo illustrations although I’ve looked at the JP anime site. I don’t think you’ll find anything more lewd than a ballet performance from what I’ve seen.
While some of the promo images and magazine illustrations from the anime staff are fanservicey (lingerie, pe uniforms), the ones from the LN illustrator are way worse. And the one they put on a Crunnchyroll news article was very vulgar and tasteless. Some years ago, that would’ve had a “mature filter” or something. They shouldn’t put ecchi images in news articles.
Would have preferred a third season. Swimsuit episode is a given, it’s like they have to do it. Swimsuit by itself is OK as long as there’s no sexual stuff. If it’s the sort of stuff you see at a beach I think it’s permissible.
Depends on the person, I think. But I worry because that would be worse than a typical beach episode, because they could take some cues from the LN illustrator.
I don’t mind. I enjoy these sort of shows for the camaraderie. I’ve learned to accept that the transformations are often perverted and look past them. Magical Girl Pretty Sammy was the first with those.
This one was worse than the typical magical girl trasnformation scene.
The little bit I saw was acceptable, IMO. It’s anime there will be some fanservice. The question is whether it’s hentai level or not and more than you’d see on a typical show in the West. Of course if it has too much fanservice that’s in your face it’s not appropriate for kids. I’m hoping the show will have a rewarding ending.
Considering Togo’s transformation, I worry about how she is presented in that episode.
On the subject of would be dark shows there is Selector Infected WIXOSS season 2. I think it’s sparse on fanservice.
From what I read, wixoss season 1 had incest, and now this has shoujo ai or yuri. That is one of the shows falling into the trend, I guess.
SAO II is better than I. There is a mystery to the first part of the season and the girl protagonist has a nice backstory she has to overcome. Kirito looks a bit like a girl in the game he plays. I think second part has some fanservice like a tail on that girl, and Kirito actually grabs it freaking her out. Mind u that’s from a screen grab.
It seems that first season had more fanservice then. Now I remembered something I saw being discussed in various sites too, about Kirito’s cousin, and Kirito and Asuna having sex (although it wasn’t shown, it seems).
Yes indeed. It’s still one of the best shows IMO. I’d have removed much of that would be Yuri stuff - it’s unrequited - but we have to make do with what we have.
Many shows would benefit from removing the yuri (or yaoi), fanservice, etc.
There is a sequel/remake.
I see, thanks.
I hope not. Still a bit of deep emotional sisterly attachment is more than welcome. No lewd stuff mind you or any sexual stuff. The characters have to care for each other but I agree lesbian stuff is not needed.
Yes, sadly some of the fans that crave said love interpret it as shoujo ai or yuri, and possibly because of that (and other reasons), some authors just make it like that then.
Likewise God bless You!
Thanks!
 
I actually can’t stand this sentiment. :o

For me, one of the main positive effects of fiction is the discussion that it provokes, both in fan communities and in the general population. Now, obviously when these discussions devolve into screaming matches about ships or the general quality of a show, they’re no longer useful at all. But I find that I’m always prompting people to explain what they liked about a piece of fiction, why it was important to them, why it made them feel things and what those feelings were. In casual conversation, I do it because I want to get to know them better and understand what sorts of things are important to them. In fan communities, I do it because I want to more fully appreciate the work through the perspectives of other people.
That’s kinda the reason why my sentiment exists. 😉

Believe it or not, but I used to think the same way. I’ve always thought that the best kind of fiction is the whole ‘thought-provoking, gets you talking about religion/philosophy’ brand. It’s just that, one day, it kinda hit me: “Doesn’t real life do that much already?”

Color me disillusioned but fiction never seems to amount to anything beyond either a reflection or an anti-thesis to people’s personal realities. Either way, reality itself is the source, not the other way around (which is why I’ve lost respect for all the people on these boards who decry fiction as somehow an ‘instrument of evil’ and not really just a symptom of something else). For example, the prevalence of negative stereotypes around religion. Is it really the fault of the stereotype, the people who perpetuate it, or the people who actually embody it?

Take the last one out and it’s hard to imagine the other two having anything to derive.

Secondly, it’s about your analysis of fiction as somehow being indicative of one’s psyche. That’s actually part of my point. Does fiction really shape that or is it because real life experience prompts us towards these particular stories?

I couldn’t stand mass character deaths ever since I watched Now and Then, Here and There. Why? Because in real life, my childhood was depressing enough without the trauma of being a kid soldier. I mean, do I have to have actually live through the ordeal of seeing my family killed, killing somebody, or witness rape just to experience depression? Alternatively, is a person only free for bullying and mockery just because they haven’t been emotionally scarred in a warzone? Really? That makes sense!? :eek:

For that same reason, I tend to avoid like-minded works such as Grave of the Fireflies and Madoka.

Going for what many decry as ‘the plebian mainstream’ full of hot-headed idealists, unrealistic relationships with women, and all other ‘delusions of youth’ could give you a lot about me but let me just save you the trouble.

It’s all an escape. Everything you see me dig is really my desire to change my current life. Granted, a lot of it is already starting to take shape but that’s got nothing to do with fiction. Rather fiction’s the icing and cherry of it all. I gravitate towards these things because it’s really what I want out of life. I was not kidding when I said the anime/manga version of a sophisticated ‘thug life’ is my picture of heaven.

I dream of a life where my day job has me getting much without so much effort (as opposed to forcibly working my passion to the bone). And at night, I grab my girl and rule my share of the streets. My higher-ups calling me to take care of business that involves freezing, frying, flooding, or fragging whatever bunch of fools that try to take that away.

Cuz really, what I got right now still needs a lot of work towards that (absence of magical powers not withstanding :p). I try to be content but the fact is, my choice of fiction reflects what I really want out of life. I tried forcing myself to go for ‘something bigger’ but really, all I got from that was bigger disappointment. Got a lot less of that when I made the ‘egotistical’ decision to make myself the center of my life.

So to sum it up, fiction doesn’t so much provokes but only reveals what’s already there. Provoking often strikes me as an action that’s meant to cultivate existence from non-existence. It’s true that stories reflect but they don’t create the object of the reflection.

People like what they like but it’s not because of what they like. If someone’s trying to change someone’s taste, you’re going to have to be more than just someone who likes a particular brand of fiction. 😉
Sword Art Online II - I’ve only watched halfway was surprisingly good. Kirito is lamentable but the new female lead seems to have a good backstory.
Sinon is quite possibly the only girl character I have related to in ways that was previously exclusive to male characters. It’s not so much about gender but rather I’ve never encountered a girl character who tries to compensate and cope the way she does. It’s like finding a girl version of me! :o

Sure, I’ve never shot anybody but the idea of trying to fix yourself through an alternate reality or taking some form of superiority aren’t alien to me. In fact, it really brings the hypocrites out of the wood work. These people are trying to help themselves but get a lot of people who still say, “You should take more control of your life, not some game!” or “Get real! You shouldn’t be so dependent!”

Thank God Kirito has more sense than many real-life fakers I’ve met.

P.S.

Of course, Sinon’s pretty hawt too. 😛
 
This is about how the fandoms receive it, there is a big problem with certain areas of them, mainly regarding the fanaticism for fanservice, yaoi, yuri, and recently, incest.

I check various sources before watching a show. I don’t like to waste time with certain series.

What is disturbing too, is how well both of these things are received.

Of course certain types of fanservice are very disturbing, and shouldn’t be watched either. Mainly because these could be ocassion of sin, and the general prohibition against pornography from the Catechism and the 9th Commandment.

God bless you!
Agreed…I don’t believe in ‘compartmentalizing’ your life like that: ‘Oh, it’s okay to watch pro-incest shows, etc., because it’s just ENTERTAINMENT.’

Clearly, we are in the minority.
 
While some of the promo images and magazine illustrations from the anime staff are fanservicey (lingerie, pe uniforms), the ones from the LN illustrator are way worse. And the one they put on a Crunnchyroll news article was very vulgar and tasteless. Some years ago, that would’ve had a “mature filter” or something. They shouldn’t put ecchi images in news articles.
Sadly you will see lingerie in the department store on mannequins. You will see it in mainstream shows.

Often the cover image is out of whack with what’s inside. You’d think a show is full of sex and so on from these cover images meanwhile the most that happens is one scene where someone sees someone naked in the bath, they either faint, get beaten up or become embarrassed and run away.
Depends on the person, I think. But I worry because that would be worse than a typical beach episode, because they could take some cues from the LN illustrator.
Depends on the person.
This one was worse than the typical magical girl trasnformation scene.
Magical Girl Pretty Sammy transform scenes were pretty bad.
Considering Togo’s transformation, I worry about how she is presented in that episode.
I’ll have to see to judge. I tend to look past these things. I expect Japanese male manga writers to do that, because I don’t know, they write these things for perverts or young Japanese otaku men are just natural pervs. I don’t want to generalise but it seems that without some fanservice as show must fail… then again they don’t always. It’s probably a trope they follow.
From what I read, wixoss season 1 had incest, and now this has shoujo ai or yuri. That is one of the shows falling into the trend, I guess.
From the bit I watched I missed that. I gather it wasn’t shown fully, as a real brother and a real sister having sex.
It seems that first season had more fanservice then. Now I remembered something I saw being discussed in various sites too, about Kirito’s cousin, and Kirito and Asuna having sex (although it wasn’t shown, it seems).
I don’t like sex in anime, besides the moral reasons, I just don’t like it. I think it was virtual sex. Again that’s also not good.
Many shows would benefit from removing the yuri (or yaoi), fanservice, etc.
Brother, if I could, I’d remake all these anime without the yuri. (I don’t watch hard yuri or yaoi of any sort and I’d probably divert the funds to make shows with hardly any guys in them.)
Yes, sadly some of the fans that crave said love interpret it as shoujo ai or yuri, and possibly because of that (and other reasons), some authors just make it like that then.
See there will always be people who do that. I personally see these girls as pure and their love as asexual. I don’t imagine they’re having lesbian sex in between the episodes. I don’t like full yuri shows where there is obvious romance between girls. Just not my cup of tea.
The bit you consider yuri, I consider deep emotional attachment between young women and camaraderie. The absence of males in these shows tells me they’re not choosing that over being with guys, and besides who would want them to be with guys. 🙂

But I think one should take the good from the bad. And focus on that. (If one can without treating this as porn. Which is of course immoral.)

Take care.
 
Sadly you will see lingerie in the department store on mannequins. You will see it in mainstream shows.
Yes, but mainstream shows are far from being an standard of good morals. Also, I criticize the questionable contents in these shows too.

I point these thing in shows, since I guess ome people is more sesible to these things, and this thread is read by lots of people.
Often the cover image is out of whack with what’s inside. You’d think a show is full of sex and so on from these cover images meanwhile the most that happens is one scene where someone sees someone naked in the bath, they either faint, get beaten up or become embarrassed and run away.
Yes, that happens too. Or shows without fanservice have promo images with that in some magazines.
Magical Girl Pretty Sammy transform scenes were pretty bad.
The original show had lots of fanservice? if yes, then that would be the reason.
I’ll have to see to judge. I tend to look past these things. I expect Japanese male manga writers to do that, because I don’t know, they write these things for perverts or young Japanese otaku men are just natural pervs. I don’t want to generalise but it seems that without some fanservice as show must fail… then again they don’t always. It’s probably a trope they follow.
I ignore some types of fanservice, mainly the ones that aren’t overtly sexualized, or the ones without nudity. About ecchi shows, etc, I avoid these.
From the bit I watched I missed that. I gather it wasn’t shown fully, as a real brother and a real sister having sex.
Reading about each season shows, this year had many series like that.
I don’t like sex in anime, besides the moral reasons, I just don’t like it. I think it was virtual sex. Again that’s also not good.
Sex in anime doens’t seem to be very common, I think. Unless these are directly porn shows.
Brother, if I could, I’d remake all these anime without the yuri. (I don’t watch hard yuri or yaoi of any sort and I’d probably divert the funds to make shows with hardly any guys in them.)
There are many shows I would like to see remade without these things.
See there will always be people who do that. I personally see these girls as pure and their love as asexual. I don’t imagine they’re having lesbian sex in between the episodes. I don’t like full yuri shows where there is obvious romance between girls. Just not my cup of tea.

The bit you consider yuri, I consider deep emotional attachment between young women and camaraderie. The absence of males in these shows tells me they’re not choosing that over being with guys, and besides who would want them to be with guys. 🙂

But I think one should take the good from the bad. And focus on that. (If one can without treating this as porn. Which is of course immoral.)
I think hypersexualization and some lgbt activism, has made some people interpret these as romantic or sexual relationships. In recent years, many people has become too eager to do these type of “shipping” with their favorite characters. I wonder what are their motivations.

The things I consider yuri, are more obvious or hinted romantic or sexual relationships.

Sisterly love or friendships aren’t yuri.
Take care.
Thanks, you too!
 
I agree that shipping wars are absurd, but, what motivates shipping?
It’s generally somewhere between innocent fun and an excuse to write dirty fanfic. Of course, occasionally you wind up with opposing ships where each option is seen as representing a certain philosophy or message. Those ones usually lead to brutal ship wars, because people are seen as rejecting not only a ship, but the Important Moral that shippers have attached to it. It get slightly less bizarre when you realize the argument is also ostensibly about more important issues than who a character should date, but it’s still odd.
I have noticed a religious respect towards series and fandoms in general. I have observed that in tumblr, facebook pages, and in blogs and forums. But because of the more visual style of tumblr of facebook publications, I think that is easier to notice there.
And, that contributes to some people taking the criticism to the stuff they like as something very personal, and are easily offended when questioned about their favorite productions, or fandom involvements.
I once heard that fanfiction exists because people are simultaneously fascinated with a work and dissatisfied with it, so they change it to fit how they think it should go. I used to think that that was silly, and would only read the small portion of fanfic that didn’t contradict canon. I didn’t really understand how people could call themselves fans if they didn’t accept the series canon. I think I get it now, how something can be really awesome in some ways, but also be highly disappointing or harmful in others. It can be really interesting to write stories that break from canon and take the story in a different, possibly better, direction.

I think fan communities are at their best when they’re eager to discuss both the ways their canon is great and the ways in which it falls on its face. It’s best when they treat canon like one version of a legend or fairy tale, which can be endlessly reinterpreted and altered to fit the needs of the people telling and listening to the story. THAT is what interests me these days, and it’s something certain fandoms are much better at than others.

As soon as people start shutting down polite criticism, the fan community becomes steadily more extreme.
How is Fruits Basket? what is about?
I take that as an invitation to gush.

Fruits Basket is a shojo manga about Tohru Honda, who starts out homeless, orphaned, and trying to graduate from high school. Two young men from her high school find out about her circumstances and attempt to help her, and she finds out that they and their family have a curse placed on them- they turn into the animals from the zodiac when hugged by a member of the opposite sex. Basically, they make it their mission to help Tohru until she can take care of herself, and Tohru makes it her mission to break the curse.

The bulk of the story is about people healing. The main characters don’t have supportive families, so they’re able to make their own support structure and overcome the things that are holding them back. I especially love Tohru, because she doesn’t drive the plot by being clever or powerful. Tohru drives the plot by being kind to people. Just by doing that, she’s able to upset the social order and help the other people in the story to value themselves, and to be better people in turn.
Anything to mention regarding content warnings?
Lots of transformations, so random nudity (usually covered by convenient smoke clouds) that occasionally manifests as fanservice. There are a couple characters that cross-dress, but they mostly grow out of it. There are several characters involved in inappropriate sexual relationships (not the leads), but mostly off-panel. There are also depictions of abuse and some disturbing violence.

This is the manga I’m talking about, by the way. The manga is great. The anime is just kind of sweet, mostly because they remove many of the darker elements of the story.
Why you didn’t continued Toradora?
I think I just forgot to. I have a bad habit of not finishing things. It was cute and funny, and I’m more in the mood for interesting SF at the moment, so… maybe later?
Agreed…I don’t believe in ‘compartmentalizing’ your life like that: ‘Oh, it’s okay to watch pro-incest shows, etc., because it’s just ENTERTAINMENT.’

Clearly, we are in the minority.
I think a lot about where the line is between “I can watch this even though I don’t agree with parts of it” and “I don’t want to watch this because it’s antithetical to my beliefs”. I recently watched a show with a lesbian relationship in it, and I’m still kinda mulling that over. It wasn’t the focus if the show, by any means, but the show was obviously not speaking out against it. I think the creator was wrong to include it the way he did, but I don’t know that I was wrong to watch it while acknowledging that fact. 🤷

I think I at least have to draw a line at shows where I find myself entertained by the idea of sin. If I can enjoy the work as a whole while critically examining the places where it messed up, then that’s one thing. If I find myself at any point saying “well, it’s only a show”, then I have to stop. I can’t watch something like that if I’m going to make excuses for it.

In general, any defense that relies on “it’s only a show” is a very bad sign, because I think that the things we watch/read/play are very important for shaping how we see the world. But I also think that we can watch and even enjoy media that we don’t 100% agree with, as long as we’re careful to consume these things critically, instead of just letting it go because it’s easier not to think about the consequences.
 
Yes, but mainstream shows are far from being an standard of good morals. Also, I criticize the questionable contents in these shows too.
Mainstream includes TV commercials and even ordinary magazines. Sure they’re not standard of good morals but anime in general, not all of it, but most generally tends to be better IMO.

The original show had lots of fanservice? if yes, then that would be the reason.

Reading about each season shows, this year had many series like that.
Sex in anime doens’t seem to be very common, I think. Unless these are directly porn shows.
Usually a maximum of one show per year or so.

There are many shows I would like to see remade without these things.
I think hypersexualization and some lgbt activism, has made some people interpret these as romantic or sexual relationships. In recent years, many people has become too eager to do these type of “shipping” with their favorite characters. I wonder what are their motivations.
Japanese anime has little LGBT influence. Same sex marriage is not even legal in Japan and is not an issue over there. I think it’s just a different non-Christian morality and a more tolerant attitude to sexuality. Lolicon is one big elephant in the room here though. Child sexualization in Japan is big and child porn (non nude) is still produced there. I also heard the Japanese Democratic Party wants to re-legalize ownership of child porn, especially for “sexual curiosity” purposes.

The 2D child sexualization is also part of “Cool Japan”. The Japanese government is also unwilling to cut down on that, probably because it’s a huge industry.

Take care 🙂
 
Mainstream includes TV commercials and even ordinary magazines. Sure they’re not standard of good morals but anime in general, not all of it, but most generally tends to be better IMO.
Yes, these are better in certain aspects, but their pitfalls tend to be really bad too.
Japanese anime has little LGBT influence. Same sex marriage is not even legal in Japan and is not an issue over there. I think it’s just a different non-Christian morality and a more tolerant attitude to sexuality. Lolicon is one big elephant in the room here though. Child sexualization in Japan is big and child porn (non nude) is still produced there. I also heard the Japanese Democratic Party wants to re-legalize ownership of child porn, especially for “sexual curiosity” purposes.

The 2D child sexualization is also part of “Cool Japan”. The Japanese government is also unwilling to cut down on that, probably because it’s a huge industry.
Some manga writers, etc. are more involved in lgbt topics, and it shows in some productions. But I guess the most mainstream shows with yuri, for example, are including it for fetishistic or commercial reasons. But still, there are mainstream authors like Gen Urobuchi (writer of Madoka, a work with some yuri elements, more hidden in the show, an more evident in supplementary material) that have expressed their interest in portraying these type of relationships.

Yes, sexualization of underage characters is a big problem there.

The influence I was speaking of, was more on the side of the western fan.
Take care 🙂
Thanks, you too.

God bless you!
 
It’s generally somewhere between innocent fun and an excuse to write dirty fanfic. Of course, occasionally you wind up with opposing ships where each option is seen as representing a certain philosophy or message. Those ones usually lead to brutal ship wars, because people are seen as rejecting not only a ship, but the Important Moral that shippers have attached to it. It get slightly less bizarre when you realize the argument is also ostensibly about more important issues than who a character should date, but it’s still odd.
I think there could be more reasons, like emotional involvement at various levels. Some people invest way too much time on shipping, be it writing fanfics, drawing fanart, collecting and sharing pictures, interacting with other fans, etc.
I once heard that fanfiction exists because people are simultaneously fascinated with a work and dissatisfied with it, so they change it to fit how they think it should go. I used to think that that was silly, and would only read the small portion of fanfic that didn’t contradict canon. I didn’t really understand how people could call themselves fans if they didn’t accept the series canon. I think I get it now, how something can be really awesome in some ways, but also be highly disappointing or harmful in others. It can be really interesting to write stories that break from canon and take the story in a different, possibly better, direction.
That view is appealing, that is, changing the bad elements of a work. But I think that with certain productions (morally questionable ones, etc), making derivative works would be a direct publicity, thus engaging more people in the consumption of a bad series.

Is more better when the original work isn’t morally reprehensible, that way, there wouldn’t be promotion of a bad production.
I think fan communities are at their best when they’re eager to discuss both the ways their canon is great and the ways in which it falls on its face. It’s best when they treat canon like one version of a legend or fairy tale, which can be endlessly reinterpreted and altered to fit the needs of the people telling and listening to the story. THAT is what interests me these days, and it’s something certain fandoms are much better at than others.
Various problems appear where an inordinate attachment to these things is present.

Have you noticed that religious respect some fans have towards series, the fandom, etc?
As soon as people start shutting down polite criticism, the fan community becomes steadily more extreme.
Yes, that happens in some sections of the fandoms.
I take that as an invitation to gush.

Fruits Basket is a shojo manga about Tohru Honda, who starts out homeless, orphaned, and trying to graduate from high school. Two young men from her high school find out about her circumstances and attempt to help her, and she finds out that they and their family have a curse placed on them- they turn into the animals from the zodiac when hugged by a member of the opposite sex. Basically, they make it their mission to help Tohru until she can take care of herself, and Tohru makes it her mission to break the curse.

The bulk of the story is about people healing. The main characters don’t have supportive families, so they’re able to make their own support structure and overcome the things that are holding them back. I especially love Tohru, because she doesn’t drive the plot by being clever or powerful. Tohru drives the plot by being kind to people. Just by doing that, she’s able to upset the social order and help the other people in the story to value themselves, and to be better people in turn.

Lots of transformations, so random nudity (usually covered by convenient smoke clouds) that occasionally manifests as fanservice. There are a couple characters that cross-dress, but they mostly grow out of it. There are several characters involved in inappropriate sexual relationships (not the leads), but mostly off-panel. There are also depictions of abuse and some disturbing violence.

This is the manga I’m talking about, by the way. The manga is great. The anime is just kind of sweet, mostly because they remove many of the darker elements of the story.
Thanks for the information about that series.
I think I just forgot to. I have a bad habit of not finishing things. It was cute and funny, and I’m more in the mood for interesting SF at the moment, so… maybe later?
I’m watching it again. Is one of the best school romance anime.

God bless you!
 
I think a lot about where the line is between “I can watch this even though I don’t agree with parts of it” and “I don’t want to watch this because it’s antithetical to my beliefs”. I recently watched a show with a lesbian relationship in it, and I’m still kinda mulling that over. It wasn’t the focus if the show, by any means, but the show was obviously not speaking out against it. I think the creator was wrong to include it the way he did, but I don’t know that I was wrong to watch it while acknowledging that fact. 🤷
Well, I think there isn’t much of a difference if that relationship is the focus or not. The presence of it, has some purpose. Social engineering, acceptance of these by the viewer, author appeal, or a combination of various motives.

If these are depicted in a positive or neautral manner, there is a problem. And is better to avoid (or to promote) shows like that.
I think I at least have to draw a line at shows where I find myself entertained by the idea of sin. If I can enjoy the work as a whole while critically examining the places where it messed up, then that’s one thing. If I find myself at any point saying “well, it’s only a show”, then I have to stop. I can’t watch something like that if I’m going to make excuses for it.
Basically, with yaoi, or yuri, for example, these are some of the things to consider:

People that could be influenced by that in various manners. For example, with acceptance towards these relationships as something normal or good.

People that find these an ocassion of sin, for example, shippers of these pairings, that write or draw these, or consume works woth them, finding them arousing, etc.

What kind of depiction is being done of these relationships? good? neutral? it has a didactic reason, like acknowledging their moral problems?
In general, any defense that relies on “it’s only a show” is a very bad sign, because I think that the things we watch/read/play are very important for shaping how we see the world. But I also think that we can watch and even enjoy media that we don’t 100% agree with, as long as we’re careful to consume these things critically, instead of just letting it go because it’s easier not to think about the consequences.
But there is a difference between not agreeing with certain plot elements, or ideas, and these elements being moral issues related to the 6th and 9th Commandments.

There are certain things to avoid, even if these aren’t an ocassion of sin for us.

Yes, I agree that the things we watch, read and play are very important, and in many times can be influential in some aspects.

God bless you!
 
Yes, these are better in certain aspects, but their pitfalls tend to be really bad too.
Sure.
Some manga writers, etc. are more involved in lgbt topics, and it shows in some productions. But I guess the most mainstream shows with yuri, for example, are including it for fetishistic or commercial reasons. But still, there are mainstream authors like Gen Urobuchi (writer of Madoka, a work with some yuri elements, more hidden in the show, an more evident in supplementary material) that have expressed their interest in portraying these type of relationships.
I think we may be projecting Western sociology here into Japan.
Yes, sexualization of underage characters is a big problem there.
And ignored completely by the liberals in the West.
The influence I was speaking of, was more on the side of the western fan.
Ah, I care not for these. 🙂 My interest are Japanese and not whatever Westerners come up with :).
Thanks, you too.
God bless you!
You too.
 
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