Annulment - diocese waited 2 years to tell us ex spouse hadn’t replied to them - 2 years, should have been 30-60 days

[Horton]

Yes he made tons of calls, why are you immediately uncharitably jumping to judging my fiancé and implying he’s not really on board here? Why would your response to this stressful situation be to try and plant seeds of doubt there?

If he made “tons” of calls and you “know” it’s a open shut case, then why did it take two years of waiting on his part to know anything? Did he not talk to his advocate? Did he not ask questions? Seriously, that is a long time to just wait.

I’m not being uncharitable, I’m pointing out some huge flaws in your thought process here.

Although you want to try to assign blame here, and insult us, the best advice isn’t always to constantly harass a bureaucracy to move faster. we did as much as possible with prudence, but no raising it to the level of harassment when we were told the “process was happening” wouldn’t be a good idea, you are just trying to pass the responsibility rather than think critically here about this situation.

The church broke protocol by waiting 2 years for the spouse to respond and ignoring

You have assigned blame on the Church, the tribunal, the Diocese, the ex, and whoever else for your issues when clearly you take absolutely zero responsibility for yourself.

You first claimed your fiance made “tons” of calls and now state he did not. Which is it? This huge crisis you’ve created didn’t warrant attention before this? After 3 years it is urgent? I’m sorry, I just don’t buy it.

How do you know the Church broke protocol? Because someone on CAF said so?

What I know if canon law is my own research and speaking extensively to canon lawyers. Why are you castigating me for looking for answers on an ANSWERS forum and implying that’s stupid and yet of course I am to take all your words on this forum to heart I am sure you think.

If you have spoken extensively to canon lawyers, you would have the answers to your questions. You wouldn’t be here ranting about how horrible the Church is being to you and messing with your fertility. I really don’t care if you heed my words. Given your responses to most of the posters here, I would guess the only response you want is one that would commiserate with you, telling you all the words you want to hear, affirming your anger. In other words, keeping it all about you.

I think it is time you and your fiance have a heart to heart about his marital situation. He is the one in control of it, not you.

 

[Ammi]

OP, I can sympathize with not having proper responses, if that is truly what is happening.

But I do have to agree with @Dlee here:

The paperwork initially filed by your fiance states that no marriage plans should be made during the process. The tribunal recognizes that your fiance is still married to his ex-wife and not free to date, become engaged, or marry.

This isnt following “protocol” on his part.

However, this is probably violated in many cases (so I’d be [pleasantly] surprised to learn that is any reason for delay). Nor have you been told this is any sort of reason not to proceed.

 

[puer.dei]

Yes he made tons of calls,

Then, what did his advocate say about the letter? And about what the should do from here?

 

[dollysro]

I didn’t come here for a bunch of no duh I should’ve just been a living saint and never even bothered liking this guy, but for some kind of emotional support.

Emotional support should come from your family, friends and fiance. This is a forum. That means people give their opinions. For Free. Expressions like “I should’ve been living like a saint” are really not productive.

This is the kind of behavior that puts people off the church by the way.

This is the kind of behavior that puts people off the ones who treat those that they asked for help from by the way.
If you are looking for validation, this is not the place. People here will give you the real deal. No one wants your fiance to wait two more years for an answer any more than they would themselves.
And fwiw, I had a friend in your situation who tried to advocate for her fiance’s annulment to all who would listen. She asked me to consult our family friend, a canon lawyer, for advice. She finally told my friend, “You aren’t helping the case at all. As a matter of fact, you are only making it harder on him as it appears he is acting as though he is not married when in fact he still is.”
So pout, stamp your feet and call names all you want. Or play by the rules. Up to you. Or more accurately, up to your fiance.

 

[LucyRita]

I’m ignoring the rest of these except the comment telling me this is just bc I “want a baby” which isn’t accurate, I’m open to married life and family, and obviously would like kids if possible, but even if I just “wanted a baby” I think it’s really funny Catholics always say that’s great and pro life but here it’s used as an insult the way secular anti life people use it.

What I can stand to read of these replies was as uncharitable as possible. I’m not going to subject myself. If I’m upset about the farce of this bureaucratic process, it doesn’t follow that “I think I’m perfect.” This website is for information and support, neither of which I got. I now remember why I no longer come here. I posted about this on other catholic forums and I got support and practical advice without all the condemnation.

A word of advice, verbally excoriating people and saying “just be a living saint you idiot” isn’t Christian charity. As well as the repeated comments trying to cast doubt on my fiancé or if he really cares, truly shame on anyone who responded in that way.

This is a church for sinners not a country club for people lucky enough to be born catholic or to have met a spouse when they were young and baggage free. I’ve found so much of what people at church did “right” is often pure luck in that way but rather than thank God for that grace they turn around and verbally assasinate people who weren’t as blessed. Here’s a tip, people who think they’re being “real” by being as cruel as possible are really just being jerks. Did any of you ever consider how weird it is to treat someone posting as condemned and persona non grata right away? When I did nothing offensive? Do you see how insane it is that you guys are putting me on the stand and treating me like you’re all my opposing counsel, do you think it’s normal to rip apart and willfully misinterpret every word I say? I actually participate in debate in real life and the way everyone acted here would get them kicked out for incivility and bad faith

I guess people are unable to tell the difference between believing the church and never criticizing any of its members functions so you have to crucify me instead for implying that a church member hasn’t done everything right. Whatever helps you sleep better. I know I do not deserve the treatment I’m getting here no matter how much you say it.

 

[LucyRita]

For the record I come from a broken family that does not give me support and my fiancé is my only friend. As always a catholic completely ignorant of the presence of other Catholics who do not have huge giant happy families and friend groups. Now I’ll place my bets on how fast the “Christians” here twist this into its probably my own fault.

 

[LucyRita]

Yes I am in the process. I and my fiancé are a team. WE are in this together. Through all hard things. Amazing that’s not clear and yet somehow I’m the one who doesn’t get marrrage? Ok

 

[bluerose]

I firmly believe that everything happens for a reason. Yes, sometimes that reason is that someone messed up. However, perhaps you should look at this time of waiting as a time to do some deep searching. As another poster said, until and unless your fiance receives a decree of nullity, he is still married. And until the tribunal investigates his former bond, there is no way of knowing with any degree of certainty that he will be free to marry in the church. What then? Have you and your fiance discussed the possibility that his previous marriage IS valid?

Perhaps your fiance should consult with a canon lawyer but be aware of this. The canon lawyer’s main goal is to uphold the Church’s teachings and make sure that no one is being denied due process in accessing the sacraments. Even if the tribunal, diocese, parish or whoever dropped the ball in keeping your fiance uninformed for 2 years. his marriage might still be found to be valid and the canon lawyer isn’t going to say, “Well, because the church messed up, we should give him a pass so he can get married because we made him wait so long.” That won’t happen. He still won’t be able to marry you.

We’re not trying to pile on you, but you need to be aware that you and your fiance may be setting yourselves up for a huge disappointment if you think that the only problem here is that the diocese or tribunal failed to contact him for 2 years. There is rarely such a thing as a “slam dunk” annulment. I will pray for you to have peace.

 

[Irishmom2]

This website is for information and support, neither of which I got. I now remember why I no longer come here. I posted about this on other catholic forums and I got support and practical advice without all the condemnation

This website offers a lot of support to people in the sense of telling the truth. Unfortunately, sometimes the truth hurts. Or it is inconvenient. Or not what we want to hear.

If you posted this on other Catholic forums and got support, why are you here? People here are not going to say “oh you poor dear, we need to get canon law changed.“ Even when people offered you sympathy with their knowledge, you are angry. We get it, you are frustrated with waiting. Lashing out at everyone here is not helping, but is probably a symptom of your frustration.

But people are right. This is not about you. It is about a man that is dating when he is not free to do so yet. In putting the cart before the horse, he has caused you to become frustrated and upset. Maybe you should take a step back and let him do this for himself with any help from you. No “we” just him.

Whatever has or hasn’t happened is done. He needs to stay on top of his case and be in contact with his advocate. If his ex is uncooperative or can’t be found, the case will move on without her.

I would like to suggest that you use the search feature of CAF and read the many numerous threads concerning annulments and remarriage. You will see that you are not being singled out or picked on. People are just telling you the truth.

 

[LucyRita]

They are treating us like criminals and I don’t think you get that by calling me nobody that’s part of the poor treatment. His advocate was relocated and won’t respond. IMO they don’t care or the case got lost and so were getting the run around acting like it’s our fault. They’re putting the responsibility on US to find the ex.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I’ll admit, I’ve not read every post, but, from what I know about the regulars on here, I don’t think they would say “just be a living saint”. There have been exactly two humans who were without sin and we crucified one of them in front of his mom.

What matters, when we fall into sin, is to get up, strive to live in friendship with God from that point on. Yep, some people fall in the same sin many times, but, every single saint (other than Mary) confessed, and pressed on.

We’re not trying to pile on you, but you need to be aware that you and your fiance may be setting yourselves up for a huge disappointment if you think that the only problem here is that the diocese or tribunal failed to contact him for 2 years. There is rarely such a thing as a “slam dunk” annulment. I will pray for you to have peace.

Good words, I pray as well and ask you to consider what happens if his marriage is found to be valid?

They’re putting the responsibility on US to find the ex.

That is the standard process in our Diocese. They do not hire private investigators to locate people.

Have you been assigned a new advocate?

 

[LucyRita]

I’ve been doing “deep searching” for years now, living like a nun for years, I prayed for my future spouse to show up abd this is who did. At a certain point just sitting around searching just because a sin of inaction.

 

[puer.dei]

His advocate was relocated and won’t respond.

If he hasn’t already, he should contact the tribunal and request another advocate. They have to provide an advocate.

 

[LucyRita]

Again you don’t have all the info. I’m sorry you can’t read but I didn’t mean two years of nothing. We were told last fall ALL PAPERWORK AND INTERVIEWS WERE DONE. This was at a personal meeting he went to. I’m not listing an entire play by play of the process just because you reply in bad faith and have assigned a bunch of huge assumptions on me. I only said that we believed the ISSUE OF CONTACTING THE EX was finished two years ago due to the fact that THE EX WAS CONTACTED TWO YEARS AGO AND ACKNOWLEDGED IT and so as such we could not have possibly psychically known that somehow we would get a letter two years late saying it hadn’t happened.

The attempt at contact was made 2 years ago. The process was ongoing and my fiancé did all the other stuff correctly. You’re utterly fabricating the implication that he didn’t. You made that up in your head. What’s insane is that if they truly didn’t hear from her after the attempts 2 years ago is they should have informed us of that at the time. If you don’t see why it’s bad that they did not inform us for 2 years then I can’t help you.

 

[bluerose]

living like a nun for years,

Not that there’s anything wrong with living like a nun (I have a 25 year old niece who is a nun), but that is precisely how people who are not married are called to live, men and women.

I understand your frustration, truly. This is why Catholics who divorce should seek an annulment as soon as possible instead of waiting until they find someone else they want to marry. My husband never even approached me until his first marriage was declared null and void (that was 32 years ago) and I would have never consented to go out with him until he had the decree in his hands. To build up a hope of a future that may never happen is cruel. I pray that you do find peace, whatever the outcome.

 

[LucyRita]

Again I am viscerally disgusted that you all are trying to plant seeds of doubt that my fiancé didn’t really try hard enough and as such implying he doesn’t care about me. You’re so blinded by authority that you would say such insidious things based on zero facts. He worked so hard on this, it was so painful for him, he did everything as fast and as thoroughly as possible even though it wasn’t fun, he drove hours and hours to meet with priests, he wrote all the in depth replies and contacted old churches and his witnesses and treated this like a second job. How dare you try to suggest he messed up somehow. He did everything possible and any more proactive ness on his part would’ve been seen as harassment honestly and not helped. Shame on you for trying to insult him and me and us. That’s insidious and poor behavior.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I did not have contact information for my ex-husband and my annullment still went forward. I took about
18-20 months. I had an advocate who I could contact and ask how my case was moving along.

The annullment process is not easy that is for sure.

Praying you get this resolved.

 

[LucyRita]

“If I think” look another person here making up fabrications about what is in my head.

 

[LucyRita]

I don’t just mean “celibate” tho that’s telling you assume so. I mean I lived as close to a cloistered nun as possible with all the prayer and mass schedule and self denial of things and spending time in constant meditation. That was all I did outside of my duties basically. Not that it’s relevant.

 

[LucyRita]

For all of you charitable Christians here who made up that I want everyone to say oh you poor dear let’s change canon law…you said that not me.

I posted here first. How can you say you’re Christian when your response is this sarcastic poor character insult to me.

There were a couple replies here that weren’t full of condemnation. you can tell someone their situation sucks and what steps they can take without trashing their entire person and their relationship. Oh and insulting them for hoping to have kids. Oh I’m sorry I meant “wanting a baby” which I’m not the type of woman who wants a baby just to have, but, it’s still hilarious to me that we are supposed to be pro marriage and family unless the person who wants those things has baggage or is upset about a church situation and then in that case her fiancé must not really love her and wanting kids is bad!