Good. I suppose then that “finding one’s path” involves considering options about what God may or may not have said in different places and different times to see which “path” offers the best and fullest understanding of Him?
B seems to be saying that all mankind got this universal truth from a single source, yes?
Truly amazing the amount of information we have at our fingertips these daysWell, I see you’ve been doing some Internet research.
Me, too.
Matthew never actually says that he recorded the last words of Jesus, so that really only leaves a problem with Luke and John.
Matthew and Luke were not at the crucifixion; of the gospel writers, only John was personally present. The others got their accounts from eye-witnesses, and since John was exiled to Patmos, I don’t think that either Matthew or Luke spoke with him. The eye-witnesses who were available were the women who followed Jesus, and these may have been standing in different places at different times during the long ordeal that Jesus endured. Thus, they may have simply heard different bits of what Jesus was saying as He was dying.
All that aside, however, one attempt at integration of the three accounts would run like this:
It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour. About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?”—which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” When some of those standing there heard this, they said, “He’s calling Elijah.” Later… Jesus said, “I am thirsty.” A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus’ lips and offered it to Jesus to drink. When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” [referring to the Passover which had begun on Thursday night - Jesus’ consumption of the wine constituted the fourth cup of the Passover which he had not consumed in the upper room]. The rest said [implying Jesus was not yet dead], "Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to save him. And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit” he breathed his last and He gave up his spirit.
But even so, the gospels, and certainly the older books of the bible, have direct many contradictions and can not be literally true. While the books may be true to what the witness’s saw they cannot both be true, a man only gets one set of last words.Indeed, but different people come to understanding and peace in different ways.
Agreed. But the authors may have consulted with different people who said, “The last thing I heard Jesus say was…”.Truly amazing the amount of information we have at our fingertips these days
Well, yeah. I’ve been saying that God has reached out to us all along. :yup:
Ok, so the whole reason I went down that road was because an earlier comment by someone else asserted that if a religion was the correct religion it would not be wiped out from the earth because its diety/s would stop that. All I was trying to show was that, according to the bible, the same thing happened to the worship of Yhwh, and in so defeat that argument from the Christian perspective. Thats all I was realy trying to do.
I agree, the divine is ever present. We just disagree on its nature, whether it is personal or impersonal, and how it goes about reaching out to us.
Thanks.
The very fact that Judaism, Islam and Christianity exist today, in great numbers, completely belies your statement, though. The worship of YHWH was not wiped off of the face of the earth. It exists. It is the nature of our God and the intensity of his love for us, however, that is responsible for it remaining. Mankind, because of our fallen nature, tends toward falling away from God. He pursues us and constantly draws us back to him. He has never broken a covenant with man, though man regularly breaks his covenant with God.
Yes but according to the bible, his worship did die out and was then revived by Abraham, so the argument that Paganism is incorrect because it at one time been whipped out would do just as much harm to Judeo-Christian religion.
I know.
All I can say is that I wish the government was supporting us today; or even just leaving us alone to practice our faith.
No, not at all. But as a person who loves debate i find it important to have the mental flexibility to argue even when you do not have personal belief in the basis of the argument. I think of it as arguing a what if scenario.
Yes, the government does seem to treat Christianity a bit unfairly sometimes. Im for total separation of church and state, but I honesty don’t give a **** about god in the pledge of allegiance or people praying in public. And while people throw a fit over statutes of the ten commandments they seem to forget the scales of justice are pagan symbols. If you removed everything that could have religious connotations from public places then art would be Pepsi billboards.
Indeed.
And if one cannot say that he has changed his viewpoint/beliefs/morality because “Thus sayeth God (or gods, if that’s the paradigm one has espoused)”, then one has simply created a god in one’s own image and likeness.
Indeed, I myself had some serious difficulty accepting some Germanic beliefs, like that mens fates are fixed.
How was this belief revealed to humanity?
I’ll touch up this one first, the other Randy hit details a bit, I’ll respond later as it’s more in depth.