Another Question About Hell

[StrawberryJam]

You can be with someone physically and still be a million miles away if you know what I mean. Being some place physically doesn’t mean your mind or heart is there. I can look right at someone and not see them if my mind is preoccupied with something else. God can make Himself invisible and unseen to those in Hell and shield Himself off from them while still being present. How He does it is a mystery but those examples I gave can explain that it is possible to be somewhere and not see anything or anyone there if your mind is not there.

He’s been pretty good at sheilding himself off from humankind for a really long time. This could mean he is preoccupied with better things to do than have his heart with his creation. I mean, love em and leave um.
He’ll come back when he is good and ready.
Just not in your lifetime.

 

[Fairwinds]

Wow! Fascinating quote. You’ve made me want to head to the library tomorrow to look for it. Thanks!

its a modern retelling of Dante’s Inferno, you’ll like it. I’d say more, but I don’t want to spoil anything.

 

[Fairwinds]

Get the attention?

What a needy God you have there. As if disaster after disaster, disease after disease, hunger, and ever other thing has not gotten the attention this God demands to get.

And this God will only be satisfyed if everyone becomes a Catholic.

I think you need to calm down and then find a spell checker. Your post is totally incoherent. I’m discussing a novel and you’re on a rant about something the gods alone know what.

 

[fhansen]

Whether one believes that hell is a physical place of eternal torment, a mental and emotional state of anguish, or a total separation from G-d, can it really be a place or state of complete and infinite separation? IOW, isn’t it a matter of faith that G-d is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent? If so, how can one actually be separated from G-d in time, space, state of mind, or consciousness? And, if one can be separated from G-d, does that also mean that G-d is separated from people in hell?

We’re already separated from God in this life, or at least somewhere halfway between heaven and hell; certainly it’s not heaven here in any case. Even though He sustains our every moment of life, even tho “in Him we live, and move, and have our being” whether we know it or not, and whether we like it or not, we’re nonetheless born without any immediate knowledge of God, born emotionally and intellectually separated from Him, with all the human angst, pain, and misery we all share with each other to one degree or another being the result.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Are posters here allowed to use this forum to promote ways to support themselves financially and tax free?

 

[Jon_S_1]

He’s been pretty good at sheilding himself off from humankind for a really long time. This could mean he is preoccupied with better things to do than have his heart with his creation. I mean, love em and leave um.
He’ll come back when he is good and ready.
Just not in your lifetime.

Who says that God is not present with us and tending his creation?

Catholics are not deists.

Do you really believe that the individual cells in your body can coordinate to do complex operations in such a way that you could be typing on a computer to someone thousands of miles away, on a thin plate of moving crust over a molten sea, on a planet with the only thing protecting you from space and the sun, is a thin layer of gas and a magnetic core, moving at thousands of miles per hour through space in such a orbit, that survival depends on maintaining that orbit around this one star among billions of stars in millions of galaxies…and that doesn’t even prick the surface of the complexities of the Universe

And God is not in some way in this process?

 

[Nita]

I agree, God must not be able to seperate himself from watching his creation in hell.
Think about that.

Far more wise and profitable to “think about” how to avoid ending up there!

 

[Nita]

I agree, God must not be able to seperate himself from watching his creation in hell.
Think about that.

A loving parent can relate to it by imagining one of their children living a destructive life - morally and physically. It doesn’t stop the love for them; it doesn’t stop the desire for them to change; …
Think about that - and maybe you’ll have a better understanding about how a loving God can still be connected to (“watch”) a child of His who chooses to be in hell.

Only a parent who no longer loved their child would sever forever any connection at all towards their child.

 

[LegoGE1947]

A loving parent can relate to it by imagining one of their children living a destructive life - morally and physically. It doesn’t stop the love for them; it doesn’t stop the desire for them to change; …
Think about that - and maybe you’ll have a better understanding about how a loving God can still be connected to (“watch”) a child of His who chooses to be in hell.

Only a parent who no longer loved their child would sever forever any connection at all towards their child.

For a really good teaching on Hell and Purgatory you could log in to churchmilitant.tv. This weekend they are showing an hour-long presentation on the subject of Purgatoryhttp://www.churchmilitant.tv/fullpreview/index.php?vidID=totf-2008-10-26

 

[Skye_Ariel]

He’s been pretty good at sheilding himself off from humankind for a really long time. This could mean he is preoccupied with better things to do than have his heart with his creation. I mean, love em and leave um.
He’ll come back when he is good and ready.
Just not in your lifetime.

What?

 

[openmind77]

He’s been pretty good at sheilding himself off from humankind for a really long time. This could mean he is preoccupied with better things to do than have his heart with his creation. I mean, love em and leave um.
He’ll come back when he is good and ready.
Just not in your lifetime.

StrawberryJam, I am afraid you are completely wrong. It is not God’s fault that the Catholic beliefs about heaven and hell are so ridiculous.

For instance, according to Church teachings, hell is full of unrepentant contraceptive users and unrepentant adulterers, but a repentant murderer can go to heaven and sit next to John Paul II.

I have come to the conclusion that the Catholics do not believe in a just, fair or even rational God - the loving, merciful God taught by Jesus. They believe in the violent, irrational God of the Old Testament.

 

[Jon_S_1]

StrawberryJam, I am afraid you are completely wrong. It is not God’s fault that the Catholic beliefs about heaven and hell are so ridiculous.

For instance, according to Church teachings, hell is full of unrepentant contraceptive users and unrepentant adulterers, but a repentant murderer can go to heaven and sit next to John Paul II.

I have come to the conclusion that the Catholics do not believe in a just, fair or even rational God. They believe in the violent, irrational God of the Old Testament.

You are very mistaken about what Catholics believe about God, he’ll and who is there.

CCC 1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:621

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622

---

God is perfect goodness, no one can dwell with him and have the stain of sin. Not even the smallest lie. Also we all have the stain of sin passed down to us. We all deserve eternal damnation. However, our God is so loving that he did something amazing. He humbled himself and became man. Became man as a small child and was raised to adulthood. God himself was brutally tortured and murdered, he was the sacrifice to atone for all of humanities sins. But death could not hold him, He rose from the grave, conquering eternal death forever, and opened the gates if heaven to all who trust in him. Our God offers this gift to all mankind freely. We do not deserve it, but he gives it to us.

How do we accept this gift? By having faith and love for God, by asking forgiveness of our sins, and placing our trust in him everyday. If we sin against him, we seek forgiveness and he will forgive us.

If we choose to ignore Gods gift and choose ourselves then that is our decision, but we do so to our own destruction. The gates of hell are locked from the inside. Whoever is there chooses to be there. They are so focused inwardly that they can’t see Gods love for them.

Tell me, in Hinduism, do you have such a God? Do you have a humble loving God willing to pay for your sins for you?

 

[openmind77]

You are very mistaken about what Catholics believe about God, he’ll and who is there.

CCC 1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:621

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622

---

God is perfect goodness, no one can dwell with him and have the stain of sin. Not even the smallest lie. Also we all have the stain of sin passed down to us. We all deserve eternal damnation. However, our God is so loving that he did something amazing. He humbled himself and became man. Became man as a small child and was raised to adulthood. God himself was brutally tortured and murdered, he was the sacrifice to atone for all of humanities sins. But death could not hold him, He rose from the grave, conquering eternal death forever, and opened the gates if heaven to all who trust in him. Our God offers this gift to all mankind freely. We do not deserve it, but he gives it to us.

How do we accept this gift? By having faith and love for God, by asking forgiveness of our sins, and placing our trust in him everyday. If we sin against him, we seek forgiveness and he will forgive us.

If we choose to ignore Gods gift and choose ourselves then that is our decision, but we do so to our own destruction. The gates of hell are locked from the inside. Whoever is there chooses to be there. They are so focused inwardly that they can’t see Gods love for them.

Tell me, in Hinduism, do you have such a God? Do you have a humble loving God willing to pay for your sins for you?

Like I said if Catholics believe that people (just any single person) can go to eternal hell if they use contraceptives and are unrepentant about it and that any repentant murderer who has done nothing else to help other people can go to eternal heaven, this is a belief in an unfair, irrational God.

Of course I am not saying God is actually like that, I am just saying Catholics believe in such a one.

I am afraid you need to open another thread to discuss Hindu beliefs (I would suggest one about reincarnation, that would cover heaven and hell).

 

[GEddie]

StrawberryJam, I am afraid you are completely wrong. It is not God’s fault that the Catholic beliefs about heaven and hell are so ridiculous.

For instance, according to Church teachings, hell is full of unrepentant contraceptive users and unrepentant adulterers, but a repentant murderer can go to heaven and sit next to John Paul II.

I have come to the conclusion that the Catholics do not believe in a just, fair or even rational God - the loving, merciful God taught by Jesus. They believe in the violent, irrational God of the Old Testament.

The key word is “repentant.”

In both Testaments, those who repent attain to life, those who do not are lost.

There is no eternal life without repentance, as forgiveness has to be sought before it is given. God will forgive anything, but He won’t just okay our sins because we enjoy them.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Jon_S_1]

Like I said if Catholics believe that people (just any single person) can go to eternal hell if they use contraceptives and are unrepentant about it and that any repentant murderer who has done nothing else to help other people can go to eternal heaven, this is a belief in an unfair, irrational God.

Of course I am not saying God is actually like that, I am just saying Catholics believe in such a one.

I am afraid you need to open another thread to discuss Hindu beliefs (I would suggest one about reincarnation, that would cover heaven and hell).

I think you greatly oversimplify with your murderer contraception example.

Going to heaven or hell is not about the deed as much as the heart. Besides that, there is a teaching called invincible ignorance. This means that someone who is not Catholic and sees no problem with contraception could use it unrepentedly and not be condemned. It is different for a catholic who knows it is wrong and willingly and defiantly does it and never repent. That is waving your fist at God. That is denying Him. It is that action of denial and obstinance that condemns.

Further, the Catholic Church does not speculate in who is in he’ll and hopes no one will be in hell.

 

[Aloysium]

We’re already separated from God in this life, or at least somewhere halfway between heaven and hell; certainly it’s not heaven here in any case. Even though He sustains our every moment of life, even tho “in Him we live, and move, and have our being” whether we know it or not, and whether we like it or not, we’re nonetheless born without any immediate knowledge of God, born emotionally and intellectually separated from Him, with all the human angst, pain, and misery we all share with each other to one degree or another being the result.

“Son,‘he said,’ ye cannot in your present state understand eternity…That is what mortals misunderstand. They say of some temporal suffering, “No future bliss can make up for it,” not knowing that Heaven, once attained, will work backwards and turn even that agony into a glory. And of some sinful pleasure they say “Let me have but this and I’ll take the consequences”: little dreaming how damnation will spread back and back into their past and contaminate the pleasure of the sin. Both processes begin even before death. The good man’s past begins to change so that his forgiven sins and remembered sorrows take on the quality of Heaven: the bad man’s past already conforms to his badness and is filled only with dreariness. And that is why…the Blessed will say "We have never lived anywhere except in Heaven, : and the Lost, “We were always in Hell.” And both will speak truly.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce

 

[Jon_S_1]

Like I said if Catholics believe that people (just any single person) can go to eternal hell if they use contraceptives and are unrepentant about it and that any repentant murderer who has done nothing else to help other people can go to eternal heaven, this is a belief in an unfair, irrational God.

Of course I am not saying God is actually like that, I am just saying Catholics believe in such a one.

I am afraid you need to open another thread to discuss Hindu beliefs (I would suggest one about reincarnation, that would cover heaven and hell).

Please tell me how it is unjust for God to allow us to choose our own destiny. He sends us nowhere, we send ourselves.

How is it unjust when we deserve eternal damnation but he offers us forgiveness.

 

[openmind77]

The key word is “repentant.”

In both Testaments, those who repent attain to life, those who do not are lost.

There is no eternal life without repentance, as forgiveness has to be sought before it is given. God will forgive anything, but He won’t just okay our sins because we enjoy them.

ICXC NIKA

I don’t think it is fair that even a ‘repentant’ murderer who does nothing for other people, should get eternal heaven just like John Paul II who worked so very hard to alleviate hunger and suffering around the world.

But this thread is about hell so we should probably stick to that. Eternal hell for using contraceptives and not being repentant about it? - ridiculous. Eternal hell for unrepentant juveniles who are criminals ? (they may have died before they get a chance to repent) - cruel and unjust.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Like I said if Catholics believe that people (just any single person) can go to eternal hell if they use contraceptives and are unrepentant about it and that any repentant murderer who has done nothing else to help other people can go to eternal heaven, this is a belief in an unfair, irrational God.

Of course I am not saying God is actually like that, I am just saying Catholics believe in such a one.

I am afraid you need to open another thread to discuss Hindu beliefs (I would suggest one about reincarnation, that would cover heaven and hell).

I don’t think it is fair that even a ‘repentant’ murderer who does nothing for other people, should get eternal heaven just like John Paul II who worked so very hard to alleviate hunger and suffering around the world.

But this thread is about hell so we should probably stick to that. Eternal hell for using contraceptives and not being repentant about it? - ridiculous. Eternal hell for unrepentant juveniles who are criminals (they may have died before they get a chance to repent) ? - cruel and unjust.

Who are you to determine what is just and what is not?

By what measure do you earn freedom from damnation? Did John Paul II do enough, have you done enough? How much do you have to do? If a troubled youth murders a man , then spends 80 years working in the streets serving the poor before death. how is that any different then the man who murdered someone and spent 1 hour serving God.

God does not hold a measuring stick and once we do enough good we enter heaven. We could never do enough to be as holy as God.

He has to make us Holy. He only makes holy those who ask him.

 

[openmind77]

Who are you to determine what is just and what is not?
…Did John Paul II do enough, have you done enough?..

It should be obvious to anyone that it is unjust to send juveniles to eternal hell - I don’t need to determine that.

I definitely have not done enough - I don’t expect to go to eternal heaven after my death (unless I really work hard for humanity in the next 15-20 years that are left in my life). I expect to be reborn and try again to do better.

… If a troubled youth murders a man , then spends 80 years working in the streets serving the poor before death. how is that any different then the man who murdered someone and spent 1 hour serving God.
…

I think these two cases are vastly different - I hope God thinks so too. Actually, I think the only way to serve God is by serving other human beings (but we can keep that for a separate thread). But according to the Church - as long as the murderer repents that is enough to avoid hell and get into heaven (no act of service in required), while an unrepentant sinner (of a relatively minor mortal sin) may have to suffer in hell for eternity