Please interpret the passage about the killing of 70000 innocent people (innocent at least of the census taking - which itself does not seem like a crime) for me, only if it can be done in a few lines (we don’t want to derail this thread).
Yes
This really can’t be done in a few lines.
I think those are fair questions, the killings that are difficult to reconcile with modern notions of morals, ethics, and criminality. the slaughter of the Jericho survivors, and the other fallen cities in Canaan, should be explained in a formal way by an apologist, lest wrong conclusions or inferences be drawn.
Yes, that’s the most basic aspect of OS according to the Catholic faith. That particular doctrine maintains in any case that sumpthin’s awry with man-not how it “should be”, not how it’s meant to be- or else the sin we’re all witness to-and sometimes participate in-would not exist at all.
So if you really work hard then you in and of yourselves can have eternal life. Is their a prescription for this? You know, feed 10,000 homeless, Save 5 lives, do X Do Y…
I’ve thought about this many times. I feel scared and almost depressed to think of anyone or especially people that I am close to, ending up in hell. But even then, that is nothing compared to the sorrow God feels when he sees his beloved creation that was meant for Him, end up there.
However, is it really necessary to live a perfect life in order “to merit residing with a perfect G-d”? According to Judaism, it is not. Even after Purgatory, none of us will be perfect compared to G-d. It is the effort to lead a good life that counts most.
The problem with that statement is what is the good life? What is the standard? What happens if you don’t measure up?
What I find puzzling is that many who have problems with those OT cases of taking human life seem to have no problem in accepting and even promoting the taking of innocent human life in the womb — not just tens of thousands, but millions and millions, and every single one of them innocent. And this is in a world that has had the benefit of Jesus’ redeeming sacrifice and the availability of the graces He merited - in nations that were Christian and by persons who claim to be Christian.
The soul is immortal, which means it has a beginning but no end. As in this life, the soul has memory intellect and will…forever! That means we process forever everything in eternity whether good (those in heaven) or bad (those in hell).
I’ll just say, to avoid veering too far off the topic of the thread, that Judaism NEVER believed, even in the days of the Temple, that man had to be perfect to be in the company of G-d. The Hebrew Bible does not support this. The blood of animal sacrifice was never the major means of atonement for sins; prayer, alms-giving, and seeking forgiveness from one’s neighbor were. We have quite different religious perspectives concerning this topic. But let us return to Hell!
A perfect life is not necessary (may not even be possible except for someone like Jesus), but it needs to be close for entry into eternal heaven. At the very least, a majority of your life needs to be spent in service of humanity, especially the poor.
The is TOTALLY off-topic. Please do not respond to this
??? No more than your post #61 below (and also in your post #58) - the content of which I was commenting on “in a few lines”.
Then why wait for a savior? Savior from what?
Aren’t these issues linked rather than mutually exclusive of each other?
That’s precisely the question that Jews ask: savior from what? The meaning and purpose of the Messiah for Judaism, based on the definition of the term, is not salvation in the Christian sense, but rather ushering in peace among the nations of the world in which G-d may be freely worshiped by all without forced conversion to Judaism. Once this happens, the atonement for sin will be unnecessary since the light of G-d will brightly shine on all. Until the time of the Messianic era, however, the mission of the Jewish people (not based on superiority of any kind) is to carry that light to the nations as best they can by means of their own exemplary, although by no means perfect, behavior.
Which group of Jews are you speaking of? Is that the thinking of all Jewish groups?
Does that mean when / after the messiah arrives?
What about peace with God now? What about the forgiveness of sin now? How does a Jew at death, avoid hell?
It is the thinking of all Jewish groups, although I can never speak for individual Jews, some of whom don’t believe in a Messiah at all. Salvation has a different meaning in Judaism compared to its meaning in Christianity, including Catholicism, and the Messiah was prophesied to be a man, not a god. Even the two-Messiah concept, which claims that one Messiah is a warrior while the other is a holy man does not refer to Messiah as G-d. Of course, the proof-texts in the Prophets portion of the Hebrew Bible, including Isaiah, Zechariah, and elsewhere are fiercely debated by Jewish and Christian scholars regarding their meaning. However, the Jewish interpretation remains to this day: there is no revision of the meaning of Maschiach (Messiah) from ancient times to the present. Atonement and forgiveness from sin can also be achieved today as in the past, with the exception of animal sacrifice: namely, by means of prayer, good deeds, and seeking forgiveness from those whom we have wronged. By leading a life of moral rectitude as best we can, as specified in the Torah, one can avoid hell and attain heaven. However, as I have pointed out numerous times on other threads, personal salvation in the World to Come is not the focus in Judaism; rather, obeying G-d’s Word and drawing closer to G-d by means of one’s moral behavior toward others (humans as well as animals) is the major concern. Moral behavior, consisting essentially of the love of G-d and neighbor, is its own reward. Gehenna is thought of as a kind of Purgatory in which people’s sins are cleansed after their death; however, it is a limited period of time, no more than one year (in practice, 11 months) during which prayers are said for family members who have died.Which group of Jews are you speaking of? Is that the thinking of all Jewish groups?
Is this a new redefinition of savior? How is individual sin atoned for in Judaism…now?
What about Gahenna?
Does that mean when / after the messiah arrives?
What about peace with God now? What about the forgiveness of sin now? How does a Jew at death, avoid hell?
I am curious where in the Torah (old testament) it describes prayer and good deeds are used to remove sin