Another scandal arrest

[Nohome]

I think part of the reason is the sometimes “over the top” respect and revere they had as priests. My girlfriend who went to parochial school said the nuns would get “all aflutter” when Father so and so came into the room, you NEVER were disrespectful to Father. I remember as a very young child thinking they did “magic” and were one step under God. That kind of thinking makes you feel very uncomfortable approaching anyone about something that sensitive and it was embarassing for a numbr of reasons. Nowadays, priests have lost too much respect, but at least they are seen as human and not devine.

I would have to agree with you. I think we are well past the days of thinking that priests are anything more than the laity they serve. In my opinion, this is a very good thing.

Nohome

 

[po18guy]

All of this points to the One True Chruch. Does the evil one waste time attacking the fragments that have split off from the One Church? Not usually. He comes against his biggest foe.

Take the example of Judas. He travelled beside Jesus for three years, teaching, healing and performing other miracles. But just look who entered into him! I think it is much the same today.

Christ’s peace to all.

 

[Adonis33]

All of this points to the One True Chruch. Does the evil one waste time attacking the fragments that have split off from the One Church? Not usually. He comes against his biggest foe.

Take the example of Judas. He travelled beside Jesus for three years, teaching, healing and performing other miracles. But just look who entered into him! I think it is much the same today.

Christ’s peace to all.

Judas performed miracles?

 

[po18guy]

Judas performed miracles?

I could be wrong, but he must have, since they all went forth healing and casting out demons. Satan entered Judas at the end. Would he have been chosen, and allowed to associate with the eleven, if he had been evil from the start? That was the question I had.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I would have to agree with you. I think we are well past the days of thinking that priests are anything more than the laity they serve. In my opinion, this is a very good thing.

Nohome

I respectfully disagree with you in this. The men put into place as our spiritural leaders, priests, Bishops and Popes should always be respected for the office they hold. After the secular legal system is done with them, it is God’s place to punish those that misuse that office

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Maybe I’m in the minority but I have a big problem with people who are coming forth 30 or 40 years later and claiming that a priest molested them when they were 12 years old. For one thing, it seems kind of strange that no one was told at the time and why was it remembered all of a sudden after so many years? I’m afraid that there are priests who are being punished for something that never happened. There should be a time limit on how long a person can wait before making such charges. Most priests are good people and these accusations are giving them and the Church a bad name.

Only about 10% of accusations, according to one study, are found to be unsubstantiated, or not able to substantiate. Yes, most priests are good people. However, it is not the accusations that are giving them and us, the Church a bad name. It is the priests who did this, and the Church authorities who did not act properly and responsibly, let alone as moral Christians, when they became aware of these situations through the years. They are giving the Church a bad name. And we lay Catholics contribute to this by ignoring or not speaking up when it is proper to do so. One of the local priests here made a partial admission, and his apology seemed so pathetic. Made me wonder how many confessions he had actually listened to, since I would have thought they would have given him an example of how to be contrite. He retired around the time the accusations were made public, and was eventually barred from performing priestly functions.

Michael

 

[Nohome]

The men put into place as our spiritural leaders, priests, Bishops and Popes should always be respected for the office they hold.

Yes, we will have to disagree on this. I can only respect people, not the office they hold. Don’t get me wrong, there are people who hold (or held) all the roles you mention for whom I have the greatest regard. That said, there are some dispicable men who have tarnished the holy orders. I reserve for them complete and utter contempt.

Nohome

 

[po18guy]

Judas performed miracles?

Was just paging through the book of Mark. Please see Mark 3:14-19. It speifically mentions that the Twelve had “authority to drive out demons”. Yes, even Judas had that power. Satan had not entered him yet.

Christ’s peace.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Was just paging through the book of Mark. Please see Mark 3:14-19. It speifically mentions that the Twelve had “authority to drive out demons”. Yes, even Judas had that power. Satan had not entered him yet.

Christ’s peace.

Thanks for pointing that out, really gives us food for thought and reason to be alert to Satan’s deceptions and lies.

 

[po18guy]

Thanks for pointing that out, really gives us food for thought and reason to be alert to Satan’s deceptions and lies.

Nothing has increased my knowledge and awareness of scripture like this forum. I’m constantly digging for citations for posts. If satan (I hate to capitalize his evil name) was present from the foundation of the world, he was also present at the foundation of Christ’s church. Matthew 16:23 seems to confirm this.

The blessed news is that this does nothing to change the truth.

 

[dixieagle]

Only about 10% of accusations, according to one study, are found to be unsubstantiated, or not able to substantiate. Yes, most priests are good people. However, it is not the accusations that are giving them and us, the Church a bad name. It is the priests who did this, and the Church authorities who did not act properly and responsibly, let alone as moral Christians, when they became aware of these situations through the years. They are giving the Church a bad name. And we lay Catholics contribute to this by ignoring or not speaking up when it is proper to do so. One of the local priests here made a partial admission, and his apology seemed so pathetic. Made me wonder how many confessions he had actually listened to, since I would have thought they would have given him an example of how to be contrite. He retired around the time the accusations were made public, and was eventually barred from performing priestly functions.

Michael

So true, Michael. If ONLY apologies had been made, rather than “taking leave for personal/health/spiritual reasons”, stonewalling, covering up, insisting on secret settlements, acting like a corporation protecting its assets rather than the Church established by Christ. I have seen so much of this firsthand - credible accusers (recent) browbeaten by Church lawyers and beaten into submission, subjected to whispers among the laity (“he/she is crazy anyway”) and forbidden to ever discuss details of any settlements.

Believe me, this is not over by a long shot; there are a couple of disturbing cases ready to come to light in our diocese even now, and our bishop is one of the worst when it comes to “circling the wagons.” Many simply do not yet “get it” and don’t want to and will gladly shoot the messenger. There is great evil afoot still.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

So true, Michael. If ONLY apologies had been made, rather than “taking leave for personal/health/spiritual reasons”, stonewalling, covering up, insisting on secret settlements, acting like a corporation protecting its assets rather than the Church established by Christ. I have seen so much of this firsthand - credible accusers (recent) browbeaten by Church lawyers and beaten into submission, subjected to whispers among the laity (“he/she is crazy anyway”) and forbidden to ever discuss details of any settlements.

Believe me, this is not over by a long shot; there are a couple of disturbing cases ready to come to light in our diocese even now, and our bishop is one of the worst when it comes to “circling the wagons.” Many simply do not yet “get it” and don’t want to and will gladly shoot the messenger. There is great evil afoot still.

Often just the acknowledgement of past scandals such as Alexander VI and Savonarola lead other Catholics to question whether the messenger is Catholic. Bring up current scandal, and that must be so much harder for some to accept. At a conference in Steubenville two summers ago, one of the facult said this is far from over, and can’t just be swept under the rug. As you mention, it is not over. How much worse for those with blinders on, or who purposely ignore or avoid acting justly.

Michael

 

[dixieagle]

Often just the acknowledgement of past scandals such as Alexander VI and Savonarola lead other Catholics to question whether the messenger is Catholic. Bring up current scandal, and that must be so much harder for some to accept. At a conference in Steubenville two summers ago, one of the facult said this is far from over, and can’t just be swept under the rug. As you mention, it is not over. How much worse for those with blinders on, or who purposely ignore or avoid acting justly.

Michael

I think that many Catholics are tired of all this and want it to be over, and others have been so completely shaken by accusations against priests that they stick their heads in the sand, unwilling to face the truth.

I am of the opinion that a fair percentage of clerical perpetrators have purposely entered the priesthood with the express idea of getting close to potential victims and that we are nowhere near the end of allegations.

Something that continues to baffle me is the silence of many good priests; I feel that they should be yelling to high heavens, railing against those who have been responsible for doing so much damage to the Church and, consequently, to them. But, it’s still often “circle the wagons” and “shoot the messenger”.

Peggy Noonan, in “John Paul the Great” eloquently voices her own frustration with this situation - one of the best, most succinct commentaries on the tragedy/scandal I have read.

 

[po18guy]

I would have to agree with you. I think we are well past the days of thinking that priests are anything more than the laity they serve. In my opinion, this is a very good thing.

Nohome

Please re-consider here. The Body of Christ, the One Church, is founded upon the Priesthood. Since Christ established His Priesthood, every Priest has been consecrated to Him. In the entire world, only those ordained by the imposition of hands, in Apostolic succession, have power to consecrate bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ. They alone have power to bind or loose your sin. We must not alter the recipe of Christ to suit our own tastes.

Francis Cardinal Arinze, Nigerian intellectual and one of the great leaders of the faith, became the youngest Bishop in the world. He wrote in Celebrating the Holy Eucharist that it is error to laicize the priesthood, and conversely error to elevate the laity beyond its station in the faith. This constitutes an attack on the priesthood itself. We suffer enough when satan attacks-we need not attack it ourselves. Satan has come against the church by encouraging laxity in dealing with aberrant Priests, combined with apparent coverups in some cases. After all, “Disciple” is derived from Discipline. This problem exists throughout humanity, but is most visible in the U.S. church. Why here?

Consider: The United States is the land of opportunity. Millions still forsake their homelands to come here. Satan also saw great opportunity here. He waited until the new nation was established and growing. Then he sent his spirits to further divide the Body of Christ. Thus were established innumerable denominations, sects and cults, leading to many heresies. The result of this was to drive souls away from the one Body of Christ. Even Christ’s Divinity is now doubted by many.

Notice that satan’s attacks against the One Chruch began even while Christ was teaching. They continued, and accelerated, after Christ’s ascension. Evil first attacked the early church via the instigation of constant in-fighting amongst its members. It moved forward with the Orthodox separation, and continued with church leaders falling into grave sin, which called for reform. Then, in a quantum leap, a disobedient priest in Germany beginning with good intentions, further shattered the Body of Christ. After that, satan delighted in causing division even amongst the dividers.

In our age, he sends the forces of evil to split what remains of the One Church via calls for every manner of disobedience. Now satan attacks by calling for changes to Christ’s own priesthood. The evil one calls it “fairness” or “diversity”. He is a liar and the father of lies. There is a common theme here. When we seek to please ourselves, and turn away from obedience to Christ, the evil one awaits. We are living through the result.

 

[Nohome]

Please re-consider here. The Body of Christ, the One Church, is founded upon the Priesthood. Since Christ established His Priesthood, every Priest has been consecrated to Him. In the entire world, only those ordained by the imposition of hands, in Apostolic succession, have power to consecrate bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ. They alone have power to bind or loose your sin. We must not alter the recipe of Christ to suit our own tastes.

Francis Cardinal Arinze, Nigerian intellectual and one of the great leaders of the faith, became the youngest Bishop in the world. He wrote in Celebrating the Holy Eucharist that it is error to laicize the priesthood, and conversely error to elevate the laity beyond its station in the faith. This constitutes an attack on the priesthood itself. We suffer enough when satan attacks-we need not attack it ourselves. Satan has come against the church by encouraging laxity in dealing with aberrant Priests, combined with apparent coverups in some cases. After all, “Disciple” is derived from Discipline. This problem exists throughout humanity, but is most visible in the U.S. church. Why here?

Consider: The United States is the land of opportunity. Millions still forsake their homelands to come here. Satan also saw great opportunity here. He waited until the new nation was established and growing. Then he sent his spirits to further divide the Body of Christ. Thus were established innumerable denominations, sects and cults, leading to many heresies. The result of this was to drive souls away from the one Body of Christ. Even Christ’s Divinity is now doubted by many.

Notice that satan’s attacks against the One Chruch began even while Christ was teaching. They continued, and accelerated, after Christ’s ascension. Evil first attacked the early church via the instigation of constant in-fighting amongst its members. It moved forward with the Orthodox separation, and continued with church leaders falling into grave sin, which called for reform. Then, in a quantum leap, a disobedient priest in Germany beginning with good intentions, further shattered the Body of Christ. After that, satan delighted in causing division even amongst the dividers.

In our age, he sends the forces of evil to split what remains of the One Church via calls for every manner of disobedience. Now satan attacks by calling for changes to Christ’s own priesthood. The evil one calls it “fairness” or “diversity”. He is a liar and the father of lies. There is a common theme here. When we seek to please ourselves, and turn away from obedience to Christ, the evil one awaits. We are living through the result.

Please see post #67 so I don’t repeat myself.

Nohome

 

[po18guy]

Please see post #67 so I don’t repeat myself.

Nohome

OK.

 

[goofyjim]

I could be wrong, but he must have, since they all went forth healing and casting out demons. Satan entered Judas at the end. Would he have been chosen, and allowed to associate with the eleven, if he had been evil from the start? That was the question I had.

Let’s be careful of how we judge Judas. He did what he had to do because otherwise Jesus may not have gone to the cross and died for our sins. Judas expressed remorse for what he did and returned the thirty pieces of silver so we may all be surprised to find him in heaven as well.

 

[debraran]

I’ve always thought that, since I was a little kid. I was also heartened to hear that St. Theresa used to pray for him and in John Paul ll’s book, “Threshold of Hope”, he also said, Judas could have very well have asked for forgiveness and be in heaven.
He did throw away the silver, he was sorry, and like a lot of suicide victims today, had a moment he couldn’t later take away. We have mercy for them (thankfully we changed that law) and I will not sentence Judas without being God. If I’m lucky enough to get to heaven, I hope I see him there too.

 

[po18guy]

Let’s be careful of how we judge Judas. He did what he had to do because otherwise Jesus may not have gone to the cross and died for our sins. Judas expressed remorse for what he did and returned the thirty pieces of silver so we may all be surprised to find him in heaven as well.

Right you are, but I don’t want to lapse into Calvinism. The church has never proclaimed that onyone is in hell, and neither can I.

 

[po18guy]

I’ve always thought that, since I was a little kid. I was also heartened to hear that St. Theresa used to pray for him and in John Paul ll’s book, “Threshold of Hope”, he also said, Judas could have very well have asked for forgiveness and be in heaven.
He did throw away the silver, he was sorry, and like a lot of suicide victims today, had a moment he couldn’t later take away. We have mercy for them (thankfully we changed that law) and I will not sentence Judas without being God. If I’m lucky enough to get to heaven, I hope I see him there too.

I heard Father Groeschel say that our prayers cannot help any souls in hell. Problem is, we don’t know who is there! Point well taken, and I have wondered about it myself. The original point I responded to was that there was some disbelief that Judas ever healed or cast out demons. Mark 3:14-19 seems to put that to rest.

Christ’s peace be with all of you.