Another scandal arrest

[debraran]

Maybe I was naive to think it was over entirely, but I was so depressed this morning to hear 2 priests in CT are in the news. One was brought up on charges earlier and another adult added his name to the list (molested allegedly at 11) and “breaking news” this afternoon was that a Naugatuck priest was arrested for molestation of a minor. An Episcopal priest was also re-arrested on an older charge…I swear, the world is nuts sometimes.

I will re-group and be fine, but I feel so awful today.It’s hard to talk about it because I don’t like to bring up bad news about the church at work, etc. but it feels better to not hold it in too.

 

[Nohome]

Maybe I was naive to think it was over entirely,

Yes, you were. Until Jesus returns, man is in charge and he will continue to fail mankind.

Nohome

 

[dixieagle]

Maybe I was naive to think it was over entirely, but I was so depressed this morning to hear 2 priests in CT are in the news. One was brought up on charges earlier and another adult added his name to the list (molested allegedly at 11) and “breaking news” this afternoon was that a Naugatuck priest was arrested for molestation of a minor. An Episcopal priest was also re-arrested on an older charge…I swear, the world is nuts sometimes.

I will re-group and be fine, but I feel so awful today.It’s hard to talk about it because I don’t like to bring up bad news about the church at work, etc. but it feels better to not hold it in too.

It really is like another dagger to the heart every time we hear of this, but I’m afraid that it is not over by a long shot (I know there are more charges in the pipeline in my diocese, as well.) It is difficult for victims to come forward, facing, as they often still do, long legal battles, sometimes brutal treatment at the hands of the Church’s own lawyers, and animosity from other Catholics who simply wish they would shut up and go away.

There is still a long, trying road ahead of us, I am afraid. Transparency and compassion are needed desperately; no more “circling the wagons” and demonizing alleged victims. All the good priests out there should be screaming at the top of their lungs that “they’re mad as he** and won’t take it anymore” when yet another abusive priest sullies the reputation of those who are doing His work and laboring hard in His vineyards.

I recently heard Peggy Noonan, on tape, reading excerpts from her recent book on John Paul. She described a talk she gave to a group of bishops about the pain this scandal has caused, and what steps should be taken. Try to read it, or listen to it, for yourself; absolutely dead on.

Peace!

 

[debraran]

I heard Peggy on “The World Over” on EWTN during an hour interview. She talked about her conversion, her love of John Paul ll (which is why I was listening) and briefly the scandal. Maybe I should get her book at the library to read about it. Were the bishops in agreement? I hate when the club stays together no matter what. Sometimes something is so grevious you have too. My relative is a cop and was like “Serpico”. Some couldn’t understand his lack of loyalty…he was loyal, overlooked a lot, but not blatant abuse or cruelty. There’s a line you cross and just can’t look in the mirror anymore. Priests might want to keep the club looking pure but if it’s black on the inside, it will come out sooner or later. Better you look like the outraged one.
In CT I praise a young priest who turned in a priest who was embezzling money…they caught him but it took his persistance which was under great duress…no one wanted him complaining. He is on vacation now and the parishiners are hoping he comes back to replace the other priest. He not only embezzled but had a boyfriend he spent money on…it made national news!! Why cover for him, the priest was trying to do what he learned in the seminary, that priest was openly defying it. The “pink elephant” is always seen by others, just not talked about. Many bishops learned that the hard way.
A link to this story is here, about half way down…sometimes stupidity is just too much.
roguepundit.typepad.com/roguepundit/2006/07/covering_up_rem.html

 

[dixieagle]

Priests might want to keep the club looking pure but if it’s black on the inside, it will come out sooner or later. Better you look like the outraged one.
IThe “pink elephant” is always seen by others, just not talked about. Many bishops learned that the hard way.
A link to this story is here, about half way down…sometimes stupidity is just too much.
roguepundit.typepad.com/roguepundit/2006/07/covering_up_rem.html

What you say is all too true. My husband is from CT and an Eastern Rite Catholic (none of his churches way down south here, though) and has heard plenty about these latest scandals. (My background is cradle Roman Catholic from Massachusetts, ground zero for so much of this ugliness.)

The “pink elephant” amongst the clergy is a very thorny issue. I have my own, perhaps controversial, ideas about why there seem to be so many gay priests, either active or celibate. People sometimes point to celibacy as a reason for the sexual deviancy that has come to light; I think that plays a part, but not in the way some people think. I believe that the discipline of mandatory celibacy has, until these scandals broke, given men of a homosexual persuasion a respectable “cover”; it was perfectly acceptable (indeed, expected) not to show interest in women, and put them in a “club” composed entirely of other men!

I believe, as do many, that vocational discernment, psychological testing, etc., has been woefully inadequate, allowing young men to become priests who had no business doing so. I also believe (and this is REALLY disconcerting) that there have been a number of psychopaths who deliberately chose the priesthood as a way to get closer to potential victims (often teenage boys, sometimes children.) It is often impossible to tell these people are lying and they can fake their way through interviews, testing, etc. Scary. At any rate, a better job of evaluation, preparation and monitoring behavior must be done, with complete transparency and honesty when problems arise - as they will, all of us being human and sinners.

Peace!

 

[debraran]

I agree it’s completely idiotic to think celibacy makes someone like boys or men…even my sister said something like that until I made her explain how? (It’s the easy fix some want) I always thought because Catholics were so against gay people (okay, their acting it out) they hid behind the only respectable lifestyle they could except maybe the Army. All the relatives saying “So WHEN are you getting married??” (I’m Italian, it could be weekly) is stifled by the “Oh, he’s going to be a PRIEST”. Today, more men are out of the closet, and hopefully wont feel like they have to hide it behind a false front. Pediphiles though, aren’t gay men and they go into ANY field they can be close to children, priests, brothers, teachers, coaches, etc.
The only good thing this scandel brought out through the angst and tears, is that priests will never be put on such a tall pedestal that people wont say anything or be told they are crazy.
May God bless all the new seminarians with much grace, love, wisdom and a thick skin.

 

[dixieagle]

May God bless all the new seminarians with much grace, love, wisdom and a thick skin.

That pretty much says it all

Peace!

 

[mgrfin]

What you say is all too true. My husband is from CT and an Eastern Rite Catholic (none of his churches way down south here, though) and has heard plenty about these latest scandals. (My background is cradle Roman Catholic from Massachusetts, ground zero for so much of this ugliness.)

The “pink elephant” amongst the clergy is a very thorny issue. I have my own, perhaps controversial, ideas about why there seem to be so many gay priests, either active or celibate. People sometimes point to celibacy as a reason for the sexual deviancy that has come to light; I think that plays a part, but not in the way some people think. I believe that the discipline of mandatory celibacy has, until these scandals broke, given men of a homosexual persuasion a respectable “cover”; it was perfectly acceptable (indeed, expected) not to show interest in women, and put them in a “club” composed entirely of other men!

I believe, as do many, that vocational discernment, psychological testing, etc., has been woefully inadequate, allowing young men to become priests who had no business doing so. I also believe (and this is REALLY disconcerting) that there have been a number of psychopaths who deliberately chose the priesthood as a way to get closer to potential victims (often teenage boys, sometimes children.) It is often impossible to tell these people are lying and they can fake their way through interviews, testing, etc. Scary. At any rate, a better job of evaluation, preparation and monitoring behavior must be done, with complete transparency and honesty when problems arise - as they will, all of us being human and sinners.

Peace!

Maybe it was naive to believe that it would end quickly.
Bishops have to sit down with their cleary, and read them the riot act, that is, if an accusation is made, they have no choice but to call the Police. If the accusation is credible, the accused will be cut off.
There is an unknown percentage of the clergy who are homosexual, and a smaller percentage who exhibit deviate behavior, like child molestation.
The settlement of these cases has nearly bankrupted some dioceses, and in five cases, dioceses have had to declare bankruptcy.
The bishops are scared, but have to clean out the seminaries of all semblances of any overt sexual deviates. They will have no insurance cushion over the future.
Better testing, better screening is necessary. And some old fashioned Hell, Fire and Brimestone has to be preached.

 

[debraran]

mgrfin, I think you have a point there about the fire and brimstone. The true deviants wouldn’t care I suppose, but I think some most forget they are representing our Lord, he doesn’t expect perfection, but blatant stealing, over and over, living a unchaste life, especially ongoing and forget molesting children, you know Jesus is upset with that!! What are they thinking?

I remember when Fr. Shrier had his after death experience, that of course, isn’t something you have to believe, but it had an effect on me. He said, he broke all his vows, went to confession for “fire” insurance, but never really wanted to stop. When he “died” Jesus was angry and it was Mary that got him a second chance. He knew more was expected of him being “Jesus” on earth to many and he failed. (link below) I don’t think you have to frighten people, per se, but just remind them what they are doing.
frtommylane.com/homilies/year_c/lent3.htm

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Maybe it was naive to believe that it would end quickly.
Bishops have to sit down with their cleary, and read them the riot act, that is, if an accusation is made, they have no choice but to call the Police. If the accusation is credible, the accused will be cut off.

 It doesn't take more than common sense and a bit of  leadership ability to know how to have properly handled these situations over the years. As if people in charge did not know the right thing to do, and that covering up and ignoring situations was not only wrong and immoral, but would make things worse eventually. For crying out loud, those who are supposed to be Christian leaders by example couldn't figure out they were not above the law? What, did someone rip Romans chapter 13 from the seminary Bibles? Or 1 Timothy 5:17-22? "The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages." Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses. Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning. I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality. Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin."

Michael

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Bishops have to sit down with their cleary, and read them the riot act, that is, if an accusation is made, they have no choice but to call the Police. If the accusation is credible, the accused will be cut off…
The bishops are scared, but have to clean out the seminaries of all semblances of any overt sexual deviates. … And some old fashioned Hell, Fire and Brimestone has to be preached.

From Fr Roger Landry’s special report on catholic.com
catholic.com/library/A_Crisis_of_Saints.asp

"The only authentic response

There has been a lot of talk in the media about what the response of the Church ought to be to these scandalous deeds. Does the Church have to do a better job in making sure no one with a predisposition toward pedophilia gets ordained? Absolutely. But that is not enough.

Does the Church have to do a better job in handling cases when they are reported? Absolutely. Though the Church’s procedures for handling these cases are much better today than they were twenty years ago, they can always be improved. But even that is not enough.

Do we have to do more to support the victims of such abuse? Yes we do, both out of justice and out of love. But not even that is adequate. Cardinal Bernard Law has persuaded many of the medical school deans in Boston to work on establishing a center for the prevention of child abuse, which is something we should all support. But that by itself is not sufficient.

The only adequate response to this terrible scandal, the only fully Catholic response-as Francis of Assisi recognized in the 1200s, as Francis de Sales recognized in the 1600s, and as countless other saints have recognized in every century-is holiness. Every crisis that the Church faces, every crisis that the world faces, is a crisis of saints. Holiness is crucial because it is the real face of the Church."

That just seems like a lot of talk.
“Cardinal Bernard Law has persuaded many of the medical school deans in Boston to work on establishing a center for the prevention of child abuse, which is something we should all support. But that by itself is not sufficient.”

How about, someone should have persuaded Bernand Law to respect and submit to both the moral and cival law regarding situations brought to his attention during his “leadership”.
Romans 13:1-3 “Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;”

Michael

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

From Fr Roger Landry’s special report on catholic.com
catholic.com/library/A_Crisis_of_Saints.asp

"The only authentic response
…

Do we have to do more to support the victims of such abuse? Yes we do, both out of justice and out of love. But not even that is adequate. Cardinal Bernard Law has persuaded many of the medical school deans in Boston to work on establishing a center for the prevention of child abuse, which is something we should all support. But that by itself is not sufficient.

The only adequate response to this terrible scandal, the only fully Catholic response-as Francis of Assisi recognized in the 1200s, as Francis de Sales recognized in the 1600s, and as countless other saints have recognized in every century-is holiness. Every crisis that the Church faces, every crisis that the world faces, is a crisis of saints. Holiness is crucial because it is the real face of the Church."

“Holiness is crucial because it is the real face of the Church.”
Roger Landry, what would this look like in real life? Those priests who are guilty being honest and submitting to justice? Or hiring lawyers to make settlements for millions of dollars that working class Catholics have labored for and tithed over the years. Let us see this holiness in practice, not just from the pulpit and in the market place. Reminds anyone of Mt 23:25-28? "“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.”
I saw Bernard Law step outside the door of St Mary Major two months ago, and two seminaries go to greet him with respect. They spoke well of the man. Guess his record and results don’t matter for much.
1 Tim 5:8 “But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” So, as a “spiritual father” with the diocese as his household, did Bernard Law provide as he should have for his household? How many parish closings in Boston? How many discouraged in their faith by molestations and the cover-ups? How many millions in settlement? How many guilty child molesters protected because they were Catholic priests?
I didn’t even want to approach the man, was afraid I might say something uncharitable, and certainly did not want to shake the man’s hand. Certainly couldn’t say, “job well done, faithful Catholic leader, you are in inspirational role model deserving of honor and respect for your leadership and direction in Boston.”

On the Catholic Channel the other night, one of the priest (Fr Dave Dwyer?) talked about the leadership of the Church leaders to get the Church throught these tough times of scandal. What was he talking about? What have the leadership done that we as Catholics can be thankful to have them as leaders? Hire lawyers to minimize or avoid jail time for guilty priests and negotiate settlements? Is that what Jesus taught? Really, besides having meetings here or there, and trying to protect assets, and not wanting parishoneers to abandon the RCC, what constructive leadership actions have occurred?

Michael

 

[Bruno_esqueXXII]

The following from Matthew 13 sprung to mind when I was reading this thread:

 *He proposed another parable to them.  "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field.    While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds all through the wheat, and then went off.    When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well.    The slaves of the householder came to him and said, 'Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?'    He answered, 'An enemy has done this.' His slaves said to him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'    He replied, 'No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them.    Let them grow together until harvest; then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, "First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"*

Perhaps the slaves are sharpening their scythes…

And talk about “stumbling blocks…”

Being a new Catholic, and in Los Angeles, this whole scandal really is just the worst thing. I know it is some psychological defect but I first just don’t understand how someone can do such things to children, and then to do them as a priest?!?! It just makes me think it has to be a very great evil at work here.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

The following from Matthew 13 sprung to mind when I was reading this thread:

 *He proposed another parable to them.  "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field.    While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds all through the wheat, and then went off.    When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well.    The slaves of the householder came to him and said, 'Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?'    He answered, 'An enemy has done this.' His slaves said to him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'    He replied, 'No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them.    Let them grow together until harvest; then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, "First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"*

Perhaps the slaves are sharpening their scythes…

And talk about “stumbling blocks…”

Being a new Catholic, and in Los Angeles, this whole scandal really is just the worst thing. I know it is some psychological defect but I first just don’t understand how someone can do such things to children, and then to do them as a priest?!?! It just makes me think it has to be a very great evil at work here.

This is more than some pyschological defect, this is incompetence among “Christian” leaders the way priests were transferred around, the way the “circle the wagons” mentality reflexively kicked in, the way it has been minimized and avoided and no one stepping up in a leadership role, merely reacting when forced by law suits.

Other passages spring to mind as well:

Mt 18:35"My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart."

And what did we read before this verse: Mt 18:29
"So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’ "
Is this what the abusers and those who ignored the scandal over years have done? Asked for forgiveness, or tried to protect there esteem and their positions?

What happened in Mt 28:34? Nowhere is there mention in Mt 28 of the fellow slaves sharpening their knives, or even having knives:
“And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.”

Mt 18:6 “but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.”
Those responsible for teaching this are those not living up to their responsibilities. That is not to say ask for perfection, as we all sin, yet there should be some competence in this regard over time, compared to moments of weakness.

Michael

 

[Bruno_esqueXXII]

And what did we read before this verse: Mt 18:29
"So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’ "

Is this what the abusers and those who ignored the scandal over years have done? Asked for forgiveness, or tried to protect there esteem and their positions?

  Those responsible for teaching this are those not living up to their responsibilities. That is not to say ask for perfection, as we all sin, yet there should be some competence in this regard over time, compared to moments of weakness.

Michael

Yes, I agree with these and yes, no one is perfect.

I quoted above as that was what just came into my mind on its own. (The sharpening bit was my own elaboration referring to harvest time as it seems like now with all this coming to light maybe now things will get cleaned up a bit.)

 

[BaLou]

Yes, this is disturbing.

wish the devil would leave these men alone. We need to pray for them all the more.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Yes, this is disturbing.

wish the devil would leave these men alone. We need to pray for them all the more.

Haven’t we been praying for these men for years at Sunday and daily Mass? Maybe they need to respond to these prayers?

Michael

 

[Teelynn]

This scandal is a stomach turner. It is really evil of the greatest magnitude. That being said (and alot more on what #$%^ the faithful people and good priests are going through) just when is this thing going to slow down? Is there not a point in time that the Church can draw the line? If not, they will just keep popping up into eternity. They are really out to destroy the Church. Face it, the well is only so deep. Don’t misunderstand, I believe the Church should pay restitution, however we are surely beginning to see that the timing is planned. This is going to sound a little off the wall, but isn’t there some kind of ruling the Church could put in place legally that would say in essence, " those who have been victimized between certain dates, speak now or forever hold your piece" ?

I have to keep reminding myself that Jesus has promised that His Church would survive. “You are Peter, and upon this Rock I shall build my Church; and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.” And so survive She will.

 

[debraran]

I understand what you mean, but I guess since they didn’t know they could say anything many years ago, even 30 years later, this was their “justice”. NOW, maybe they can say, 10-15 years or so. You have to think of the ages…a seven year old might not have the guts to say anything for 10 years. I think “most” told the truth, but I hope not too many exagerated or out right lied. I wouldn’t want to meet my maker with that on my soul (I have enough to worry about!!) I’m glad some just admitted it and let the ones hurt start to heal that part of them. How many bitter Catholics from experiences in their past, passed it on to others.

 

[mgrfin]

The Courts have not been very helpful.

They have decreed that all the assets of the dioceses involved are open to the reach of the Courts in the settlements.

Most states have time limits. Bringing up cases going back to the 1950’s is absurd. All the memories are gone; all the evidence is gone. The admission of some senile priest is hardly credit worthy.

I’m not a lawyer, but the dioceses have to set up a structure to put up parish assets out of the reach of claimants. I know a lot of people will howl about that, but you are otherwise saying that the Church has not rights to exist in the face of claims.

Corporations have such protections; why not the churches. San Diego, Portland, and several others have filed for bankruptcy. If that is the route the Church will have to dissolve its assets.

mgrfin