Another Senseless Death of a Black Man: Why Did It Take So Long to Launch Probe?

[Tis_Bearself]

Not really when you consider that police deal with a lot of people who are not in their right minds due to drugs or mental conditions, and that if they injure themselves in police custody then the police will likely have to answer for it.

It’s only frightening if you think the police make a lot of unjust or wrong stops and arrests. Some people do think that. I personally think a guy in a ski mask fighting off multiple police is someone I would expect to get arrested.

 

[Welshrabbit]

It’s only frightening if you think the police make a lot of unjust or wrong stops and arrests. Some people do think that.

Many people think that. Look at what happened in NYC with their stop and frisk policies…

I haven’t formed an opinion on the matter as I haven’t really seen it in my little slice of the world. Not saying it doesn’t happen, however.

I guess my point is that how did they know this guy wasn’t high already on something? Can’t mixing narcotics up be really, really dangerous?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The medical protocols are supposed to take into account what drug is used and on whom. Naturally they will look at the odds of someone dying from the sedative due to liability concerns.

There’s always going to be someone who has a bad reaction to a drug, or who has some perfect storm of stuff going on where the drug combined with some other factor results in death. From an economic standpoint, if such cases don’t carry a high cost (as in sigificant number of deaths, liability judgments, riot damage, loss of community goodwill etc) then the protocol will keep marching on.

 

[Lea101]

We could be barking up the wrong tree by prematurely concluding that the reason for police brutality is systemic racism.

A deep investigation needs to be done nationwide on police departments to get to the root of this recurring problem. To focus prematurely on racism is to miss the forest for the trees and will fail to solve the problem. This means more people will die at the hands of the police.

I have a hunch that attempts at these investigations will be obstructed by the police themselves.

That’s definitely true. But it does seem like racism takes up a chunk of these killings imo. Didn’t the FBI warn about white supremacists “infiltrating” law enforcement some time ago? Recently a couple of cops were fired for literally talking about their desire to shoot down black people and the ‘race war’ too. Something tells me that they would probably use excessive force when given the opportunity. Seeing the videos of the cops instigating and provoking peaceful protesters…it’s clear that there’s a problem.

Besides that, apparently their training is so…subpar. So you don’t have properly trained cops in the first place.

On top of that, you have unions and tape that prevents proper accountability. Didn’t the cop that killed George received a lot of prior complaints? (or was it another cop) If I had that many in any of my past jobs I would definitely be fired.

I feel like attributing only racism is a mistake for the reasons you mentioned, and I also think idolising these cops or putting them on a pedestal generally is a bit…unnecessary (which has been some people’s reactions recently). I feel like both sides can agree that serious reform is needed.

 

[Sarcelle]

Didn’t the FBI warn about white supremacists “infiltrating” law enforcement some time ago?

A deep investigation would uncover such things.

But I am being idealistic here.

I doubt there would be cooperation from police.

But I agree. Police are not better than the people they claim to serve.

 

[Lea101]

I doubt there would be cooperation from police

Definitely not. I’m guessing more evils are being hidden. E.g. Ties to human/sex trafficking. Obviously just my opinion, before anyone screams at me.

I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but it would be silly to assume only the celebs are involved in shady business.

 

[blackforest]

There’s no way I’ll have time to respond to absolutely every point and every person, so here are some snippets this morning.

The Aurora Police Department later said that a 911 caller had reported a “suspicious person” in a ski mask, and that when officers confronted McClain — who was not armed and had not committed any kind of crime — he “resisted arrest.”

I’m curious what the charges were. From my link:

The caller says, “No, I don’t believe he’s committed any crime. There’s no weapon involved. I’m not in danger. Nobody else is in danger.” So there was no reasonable suspicion to believe he had committed any crime, and thus no reason to even stop him.

I went to another source

Could you link me to the source, please? Thanks.

Maybe if they had insurance like doctors, specific to their history, police departments would be more willing to let go bad actors.

I’ve thought about this, but we’d also need to jettison qualified immunity.

I personally think a guy in a ski mask fighting off multiple police is someone I would expect to get arrested.

Charged with what? Arrested for what? Iced tea? Ski mask? Being “different?” Having anemia? Also from my link:

McClain was wearing a ski mask, something his family says he often did because he had anemia and got cold easily.

Snippets of body cam with an overlaid accusative media voice is far from objective.

Here’s the whole thing - no voice-overs.

I’m hearing a very nervous, unarmed, young man - likely with a mental or neurological conditions - terrified of an accusation of “being suspicious.”

As far as racism is concerned you need to prove there is antipathy.

I actually never once stated that they did it because they were racist. I only mentioned data of officer-involved killings adversely affecting African-Americans. Racism under these circumstances is a reasonable hypothesis but nearly impossible to prove because it’s exercised passive-aggressively.

Are you also talking about the many more senseless deaths of black men, killed by other black men in gang violence? Or is it just the ones by the ‘racist’ police that bother you?

I’m not going to indulge whataboutisms. For your reading pleasure: 6 Clapbacks To Black Lives Matter That White People Need To Drop

The government has ordered a “new” investigation.

They needed a genuinely independent investigation. The first investigator they hired was a joke.

 

[blackforest]

Besides that, apparently their training is so…subpar. So you don’t have properly trained cops in the first place.

This is a huge part of it. I’m not totally sure what I think of the defund-the-police movement. I’m wondering if defunding police militarization is more the answer, then redirecting that funding to better salaries and benefits to compensate more highly trained officers. In turn, the requirements and screening process to become an officer should be much more rigorous.

 

[Polak]

I’m not going to indulge whataboutisms. For your reading pleasure

So avoid answering the question. Well that is one way to do it I suppose.

 

[Lea101]

A couple of questions for you @blackforest.

1. Are you also talking about the many more senseless deaths of black men, killed by other black men in gang violence? Or is it just the ones by the ‘racist’ police that bother you?
2. Are you also doing topics on the senseless deaths of white men killed by the police? Or are they less important to you?

Can I assume every topic that you have not mentioned so far is proof that you don’t care about it at all?

 

[Polak]

Oh please, don’t twist things.

The number one cause of deaths of black people in the USA is black on black violence. How often do you see this talked about in the public sphere?

 

[Welshrabbit]

Charged with what? Arrested for what? Iced tea? Ski mask? Being “different?” Having anemia? Also from my link:

McClain was wearing a ski mask, something his family says he often did because he had anemia and got cold easily.

Police are allowed to conduct what is called a “Terry stop.” This is a brief detention to determine if criminal activity has taken place. This can include placing a person in handcuffs and is not considered an arrest. The police had no idea he was anemic at the time they stopped him, only that there was a man wearing a ski mask. Pre-covid, this could have been considered strange depending on the time of year.

If he resisted, the police had every right to use force. Whether or not this force was excessive is debatable and would also depend on the Police Department’s policies (i.e. outlawing chokeholds).

For me, the ketamine thing is really disturbing. I don’t think paramedics should be giving strong narcotics to suspects without having their full medical history or knowing what drugs they are currently taking.

 

[Polak]

@Lea101

Why wouldn’t the media talk about the white people killed by police? Why wouldn’t they spend weeks and weeks going over it like they do in the cases of black people? Why? Because it doesn’t fit the narrative. That’s why. . . .

 

[Lea101]

Oh please, don’t twist things.

The number one cause of deaths of black people in the USA is black on black violence. How often do you see this talked about in the public sphere?

You were asking @blackforest. Why bring up the public and the media? You were insinuating something about her. So it’s fair I asked you that. I also think it’s fair if you apologised for implying she doesn’t care about all those other things as well, but hey, it’s between the both of you.

Why wouldn’t the media talk about the white people killed by police? Why wouldn’t they spend weeks and weeks going over it like they do in the cases of black people? Why? Because it doesn’t fit the narrative. That’s why. Please stop being so naive.

 

[Polak]

You were asking @blackforest. Why bring up the public and the media? You were insinuating something about her. So it’s fair I asked you that.

I bring up the media because they run the narrative. When something is blasted out in the media over and over, day after day, it becomes a talking point. People know about it and talk about it. When something doesn’t get a mention in the media anywhere and is effectively buried, it doesn’t become a talking point. People don’t know about it. Heck, most people don’t even know the names of any of the white people killed by police.

 

[Lea101]

I bring up the media because they run the narrative. When something is blasted out in the media over and over, day after day, it becomes a talking point. People know about it and talk about it. When something doesn’t get a mention in the media anywhere and is effectively buried, it doesn’t become a talking point. People don’t know about it. Heck, most people don’t even know the names of any of the white people killed by police

So why didn’t you talk about that instead of saying things like ‘Or are they less important to you’, or ‘Or is it just the ones by the ‘racist’ police that bother you?’. All because blackforest talked about one issue and not the other.

You don’t see how your post was inflammatory and was targeting a poster’s character, not the ‘media’s’?

 

[blackforest]

The police had no idea he was anemic at the time they stopped him, only that there was a man wearing a ski mask.

I agree. I was making clear above that in and of itself it’s not a reason to arrest someone. I don’t think this kid even had the verbal or social skills to explain his ski mask. And yes, COVID-19 would have been one possible explanation.

I grew up told that as a girl and later a woman, I should never walk anywhere alone at night. I fear that, oddly, we need to start saying the same for black men.

I also think it’s fair if you apologised for implying she doesn’t care about all those other things as well, but hey, it’s between the both of you.

It’s OK, I don’t take other people’s deflections personally. I see through the tactic of responding to one human rights violation by citing others. We get it all the time as pro-lifers. (“Why don’t you adopt foster children?” “Don’t you care about born children?”)

Nobody with a conscience wants anybody of any race to because a victim of unjust police brutality. BLM has emerged because such a large, if not suspicious, amount of it has been directed toward African-Americans.

 

[Hodos]

Can we now finally admit there’s a problem of police brutality against African-Americans?

No because statistics demonstrate that instances of police brutality are not limited to African-Americans. If you want to talk about police brutality generally, against any person regardless of color or nationality, I am happy to stand beside you where evidence demonstrates wrongdoing though.

 

[Welshrabbit]

I agree. I was making clear above that in and of itself it’s not a reason to arrest someone. I don’t think this kid even had the verbal or social skills to explain his ski mask. And yes, COVID-19 would have been one possible explanation.

I grew up told that as a girl and later a woman, I should never walk anywhere alone at night. I fear that, oddly, we need to start saying the same for black men.

No, but it could very well be a reason for a Terry stop as I explained above. I don’t think it’s a good idea to rush to judgement in this case. I’m not saying the police/paramedics are without blame but it isn’t clear to me that they acted in a criminal manner.

I’m sorry you have that fear. I also think we need to do a better job of teaching the public about the use of force continuum, what police have the authority to actually do, and how they are trained to handle certain situations (i.e. violent resistance to lawful commands).

 

[Lea101]

how they are trained to handle certain situations (i.e. violent resistance to lawful commands).

True, but what happens when they start being aggressive first? Or giving impossible instructions to follow?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1275730943492456450

In this case, we have excessive force when there is really no need for it at all.

I understand the fear of coming into contact with the police, not even as a black man, but anyone who isn’t immediately seen as petite and vulnerable. Heck, I just saw a video of a cop (or security, idk) being way too aggressive towards a young girl!