Another Senseless Death of a Black Man: Why Did It Take So Long to Launch Probe?

[Polak]

All because blackforest talked about one issue and not the other.

Why not ask the question, why is blackforest so concerned only about the lives of people one colour? It’s concerning to me when I see people protesting or defending people of one race or ethnicity only.

Blackforest posted a topic about another senseless killing of a black man by the police. But the police in the USA kill about the same amount of black and white people, in proportion to the black and white cases they deal with. So why is the focus only on people of one race being killed? It seems a bit racist to me.

Imagine if there was a group of people standing somewhere. Say there were 20 of them, and 10 of them were black, 10 were white. Another group then showed up and killed all of them. Imagine if I then said ‘it’s such a shame about the white people who were killed. What a senseless act’. It wouldn’t be out of place for somebody else to ask me ‘why are you only noticing the white people who were killed? Why not all of the 20 people?’

 

[Welshrabbit]

True, but what happens when they start being aggressive first? Or giving impossible instructions to follow?

Then that’s wrong and they should be punished. No one is saying that bad cops shouldn’t be punished, only that not every single case where cops use force is unnecessary/unjustified.

In this case, we have excessive force when there is really no need for it at all.

I would not have handled the situation as that officer did but not knowing what the policies/protocols are in Florida, I can’t say for certain that it was excessive.

 

[Lea101]

Why not ask the question, why is blackforest so concerned only about the lives of people one colour?

Because you’re assuming she ‘only’ cares about one race.

So it’s fair for me to ask you if that means you don’t care about an issue if you haven’t postdd about it. Maybe since George’s murderer didn’t publicly condemn racism, we can assume he did it out of racist beliefs. Oh goodie, the lengths we could go.

Another group then showed up and killed all of them. Imagine if I then said ‘it’s such a shame about the white people who were killed. What a senseless act’. It wouldn’t be out of place for somebody else to ask me ‘why are you only noticing the white people who were killed? Why not all of the 20 people?’

It’s not a good analogy. You’re talking about one event where people died. If there’s a white man who was murdered by that cop together with George, then you would have a point. Or if you can tell she purposefully excluded the white people because she didn’t care. Your analogy showed someone purposefully excluding a race. But you yourself admitted that most people wouldn’t even know the names of those white guys that were killed, so you can’t use that logic.

Even then, we don’t raise an eye when it happens. When people grieve about the Jews being killed in the holocaust, it doesn’t mean they didn’t care about the other groups that were killed along with them.

 

[Polak]

But you yourself admitted that most people wouldn’t even know the names of those white guys that were killed, so you can’t use that logic.

Yes most people don’t, and why do you think that is?

When people grieve about the Jews being killed in the holocaust, it doesn’t mean they didn’t care about the other groups that were killed along with them.

No it doesn’t, but if there are Jews who only ever remember about and grieve for Jews who died, and never seem to take any interest in any non Jews who die, I would have concerns. I’m not saying this is what blackforest does, but I only ever seem to see her writing posts here about black people are how mistreated they are.

 

[Lea101]

not knowing what the policies/protocols are in Florida, I can’t say for certain that it was excessive.

I believe he filed a lawsuit. We’ll see where it goes.

I don’t see why we need to know the policies though. It’s obvious that in this situation, there was excessive force. I don’t need to check if a state outlawed abortion to say ‘yes, she did something wrong, she aborted her baby’.

If you’re referring to the legal aspect of the case then my bad. If the laws exempted the cops in this case, there’s clearly a flaw in the law then tbh. It should be revised.

 

[Welshrabbit]

I’m with ya and I was talking about the legal side of things. Depending on how their written in Georgia (sorry, it wasn’t Florida) it may be acceptable to use “hard techniques” (like the body slam) in response to resisting without violence.

I’m not saying the officer was right or justified in using that level of force by any means. An officer should always use the least amount of force necessary to affect an arrest.

 

[Lea101]

No it doesn’t, but if there are Jews who only ever remember about and grieve for Jews who died, and never seem to take any interest in any non Jews who die, I would have concerns.

Depends on how that looks like. If they’re denying or downplaying the others, then sure, I would have problems too.

I’m not saying this is what blackforest does, but I only ever seem to see her writing posts here about black people are how mistreated they are

But that’s what you were saying though. Your post made it clear that you’re implying something about a poster’s character.

It’s silly to assume that based on post history. Certain people will have certain causes close to their heart. Like what she said, people always talk about how pro life people don’t care about born children (despite their platform being about conception till death) because they only focus on fetuses. We both know how dumb that reasoning is.

If her or anyone’s concern is more about racism against black people, so? I’m not upset that she didn’t talk about racism against my race. You’re better off asking why she thinks this group is killed because of racism, and why the other is killed because of general brutality. Instead of assuming she’s wilfully ignoring another group. That’s all. You would have a point if they’re saying black people are killed because of general incompetence

After all, that’s the whole basis isn’t it? That people aren’t talking about white people because they’re talking about racism and not general incompetence?

 

[Pattylt]

Lea101:

You were asking @blackforest. Why bring up the public and the media? You were insinuating something about her. So it’s fair I asked you that.

I bring up the media because they run the narrative. When something is blasted out in the media over and over, day after day, it becomes a talking point. People know about it and talk about it. When something doesn’t get a mention in the media anywhere and is effectively buried, it doesn’t become a talking point. People don’t know about it. Heck, most people don’t even know the names of any of the white people killed by police.

Just so you understand that the media in this case didn’t drive the attention. The attention became focused on this case by a huge March and violin concert…the young man was an autistic and loved playing the violin…that caused the media to focus on this case. The community itself drove the attention…then the media became interested.

A few points to note…the call in reported a suspicious person wearing a ski mask. It was specifically noted that the caller was not aware of any crime, he had no weapon and the caller didn’t feel threatened. When police first approached him, it seems like they were determined to cuff him rather than just question him. The man stated he was an introvert and had problems with people getting too close to him. He continued to try to tell the police his story. Had the police just questioned him without cuffing him, none of this would have likely happened.

The paramedics injected a dose of ketamine meant for a 300lbs man. This young man weighed 140lbs.

The first investigator hired was an ex police officer turned lawyer who specialized in defending police officers charged with misconduct.

So, there are several points of interest that need to be investigated and Gov. Polis has ordered an independent investigation of highest priority…finally…to find out if/when mishandling occurred…which is all the family wanted from the beginning.

 

[Polak]

Certain people will have certain causes close to their heart.

You know what, I would be okay with that, if it was fair. If black people are mostly concerned about police brutality against black people, if Jews think about the holocaust more than other atrocities etc. Fine. People do naturally have a tendency to be concerned about things they consider ‘closer to home’. Even Christians are concerned when they hear of persecution of Christians in certain countries. I know I do. The problem is, that it doesn’t seem to be okay if white people are concerned for other white people, over other issues. That is seen as racism. Why the double standard?

 

[Lea101]

The problem is, that it doesn’t seem to be okay if white people are concerned for other white people, over other issues. That is seen as racism. Why the double standard?

We’re changing subjects now? I’d be happy to talk about this on another thread or Pm, not on this thread though. Because it’s out of topic.

 

[blackforest]

the young man was an autistic and loved playing the violin…that caused the media to focus on this case.

Was this confirmed? I tried to look it up because I was curious. His behavior in the video seemed like classic autism spectrum. I truly wish the police had more training in recognizing and responding to ASD citizens.

Why not ask the question, why is blackforest so concerned only about the lives of people one colour?

Again, you’re missing the point. Bringing up one human rights violation doesn’t mean I don’t care about other human rights violations, just as being pro-life for the unborn mean that I “don’t care” about born children.

 

[Pattylt]

Was this confirmed? I

I don’t think so. It was mentioned by friends of his on one of the evening news reports…and was stated that he was on the autistic spectrum. He was asthmatic and very introverted. He often played his violin for cats to sooth them. He doesn’t appear to be neurotypical but I can’t say if he was ever diagnosed as autistic either.

 

[Usagi]

The problem is, that it doesn’t seem to be okay if white people are concerned for other white people, over other issues. That is seen as racism. Why the double standard?

If there’s a case where white people are being targeted for being white people, or a look at the larger pattern of cases suggests a systemic bias against white people even if there’s not always individual animosity, I don’t think anyone would have a problem with being concerned about that specifically. We white folks are most likely to be targets of mockery rather than murder because of our color, though, at least in cultures where we are dominant. There may very well be systemic police bias against white people in Japan or Kenya or something, I dunno. And if so, that would be something for those systems to address. But we’re usually talking about the U.S. or Europe.

Also, much as in the case of “men’s rights,” the notion of “speaking up for the white race” has been taken over by horrible people, so even if there are a couple of legitimate issues there, the well has been so poisoned that it’s probably better to look for a different way of talking about the legit stuff.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

• Are you also talking about the many more senseless deaths of black men, killed by other black men in gang violence? Or is it just the ones by the ‘racist’ police that bother you?
• Are you also doing topics on the senseless deaths of white men killed by the police? Or are they less important to you?

It’s not either/or when it comes down to police brutality.

 

[silentwitness]

Here’s the whole thing - no voice-overs

Here is a fuller version. (Thanks to Theo)

 

[Polak]

If there’s a case where white people are being targeted for being white people , or a look at the larger pattern of cases suggests a systemic bias against white people even if there’s not always individual animosity, I don’t think anyone would have a problem with being concerned about that specifically.

There is no ‘pattern’ that shows black people are being targeted by the police for being black. The language used by the police doesn’t reveal anything about racism and the statistics do not show it either. People are just deciding it must be racism. People are going around saying the police are going out and killing more black people than white people (statistically false) because they are black, without a shred of evidence.

 

[blackforest]

The language used by the police doesn’t reveal anything about racism and the statistics do not show it either.

On what basis are you rejecting the data that I provided for you?

 

[Polak]

What data?

 

[blackforest]

I linked it up thread.

I kind of figured I’d get the you-can’t-prove-it’s-racist response. I said that there’s a problem with police violence against African-Americans. That’s well-documented.

 

[Polak]

That data is misleading as I have explained in other thread on this topic.

You can’t include people who have never been in trouble with the police in such a stat. Obviously white and black people who haven’t been in trouble with the police, won’t have been killed by them.

It should be based on black and white people who have have been involved in crimes, and those stats show that approximately twice as many white people in America commit crimes and approximately twice as many get shot by police. It’s more or less proportionate.