Another TradCath Thread

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J_Dudycha said:
I’m merely a soon-to-be catechumen, and I’m just trying to understand the different currents of Catholicism.
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That’s wonderful. I was a Lutheran, too, and am now a Catholic. Don’t do as I did and put it off till you are 70. I should have joined much earlier. I do love my Catholic church, my Catholic faith, my Catholic life. Just can’t wait till we can go to church again.
 
And of course the irony of the neo-modernist who fits this official description, “the emancipation of the private conscience whose inspirations must not be overridden by papal definitions or anathemas”

These are the new gnositcs that Fr Ripperger is talking about.
 
Why not use one of the post VII question and answer Catechisms that aren’t at variance with the spirit and teachings of Vatican II? Fr John Hardon’s Catechism for example?
 
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Maybe like me, the poster actually HAS his or her old Baltimore catechisms and since they are still perfectly readable, prefers not to go out and spend extra money?

(I also have the compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, so if there is anything that comes up and I can’t cover it with the old books, there is the compendium and one can look up the CCC online).

I know we’re all getting a little squirrelly with COVID19 and all, but seriously, there is one heck of a lot of passive-aggressive behavior out there. And yes, I’m probably guilty of it at times, and am perfectly willing to apologize if somebody can note it.

But what gets me is the constant ‘YOU TRADITIONALISTS are ALL BAD”.

Come on. I’m wearing ‘rose colored glasses’ because I don’t lockstep to somebody ELSE’S opinion? Why are my opinions“Toxic”, ‘problematic’, “anti”, “dissenting’, ‘disobedient’, but the people who are lambasting me and others, THEIR opinions are perfect?

You know what? People here over and over have concurred that there are people who can be ‘toxic trads’.

But it seems that only leads to yet more charges and venom, because, “We’ve admitted WE have some rotten eggs’.

But of all those who are calling out the ‘bad behavior’ on the trad side, no one wants to admit that their behavior is as bad, or even worse.

Why is that, I wonder?
 
Emeraldlady said:
What are your credentials to advise a thing not even the official formation of the Church advises? New catechumens are taught from the Catechism we have addressing life in the Church today. Tell the OP why he/she should start with historical documents to form his/her growth in faith. What authority do you have to undermine the official formative process?
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I don’t understand. How would reading historical documents of the Catholic Church undermine the “official formative process”? Is there a blacklist of church documents that we 21st century Catholics aren’t supposed to read? Once we’re done with RCIA, may we read them? Is there some kind of official teaching on this, emeraldlady, or are you the only one who holds this position? Is there a new Index Librorum Prohibitorum, comprised of our own Church’s older catechisms?
 
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Well the OP asked a very clear question, didn’t he?
I think that “credidimus” was saying “hey, you want to understand how some rad trads view the current state of the church? Read some older catechisms and compare them with newer Church documents”. The OP specifically asked about this, credidimus didn’t bring it up on his own, he was just giving an answer to the OP’s actual question.
 
Right on. So, “TradCaths” do believe that the church can become defective over time ?
How does that comport with God’s promise that the gates of Hell shall never overcome His church ?? How do “TradCaths” reconcile this seeming disparity ???

Not attacking. Legit curious. 🙂
 
A lot of the members of the Church can defect, but not the whole Church. A great apostasy could be possible, but the handful of Catholics who remain are the Church. Not saying that this is the situation now, just saying it is possible.
 
Hearing ya. I could be wrong on this, but part of what appeals to me of Catholicism - coming from a highly divided Protestant background - is the fact that within the Catholic church exists a Magisterium and firm teaching authority, which is grounded by God’s promises. If seems that part of being Catholic, then, is trusting in God’s promises, and not getting worried by “modernism” in the church… because God allowed it to happen. Or ?
 
But, how does one trust in the church without obeying the Pope(s) ?

How does one identify the false “men of the collar” from true men of the collar without assuming some bit of wiggle-room in God’s promise that He will uphold His church ??

I’m not trying to split hairs here. I am honestly curious how to navigate through the maze of authority and development within the Church.
 
The intellectual in me sees your advice as anti-intellectual, but the faithful/humble man in me sees your advise as the wisest here thus far. 🙂
 
I did ! It was spectacular. 🙂

Sorry, wasn’t trying to be divisive on this Holy weekend. I’ve been absent from this thread over the past couple days as I was concerned with “higher” things; am just now getting to reading all of these replies.
 
For clarification’s sake, I’m defining “Traditional Catholic” as someone who:
  • wants any pre-Vatican 2 Mass
  • speaks frequently on the mistakes of the current & past few Popes
 
Herr Grosse,

I like(d) your point about how Catholics can exist with adjectival distinctions. Mm.

Just curious, how do you identify yourself as a “Trad” ? What qualities/beliefs make you different than a “normie” Catholic ??
 
Right on.

I guess my question is, how do TradCaths distinguish between legitimate Magisterial teaching and novel innovation without assuming some distrust/skepticism in the Magisterium vis a vis Matthew 16:18 ??
 
Worry not, TMC. I’m making sure to take it all with a grain of salt. 😉 Thanks for your concern, though.
 
I think you hit the nail on the head here, yes. The “TradCaths” err on the side of pre-Vatican 2.

My ultimate question is, how can TradCaths maintain such a position while still claiming to trust God’s promise per Matthew 16:18 ?
 
“So if a very holy and learned Doctor of the Church could invite people to perfect obedience, I feel very safe in inviting the OP to reject the undertone of dissent and trust that obedience to our Pope and our Church is a sound way.”

Mm, yes. I sense much deeper wisdom and humility in this advice.

After all, isn’t trusting in one’s own “reasoning abilities” exactly what led to the Protestant Reformation ?
 
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