Answering "hate religion, love Jesus"

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My thoughts is that this is all sour grapes for being too lazy to get out of bed and spend one hour a week in worship of God with mass. Their thought process is if I can make a case that religion is bad then geez I don’t need to get up and go to mass.
 
Savior2012 said:
My thoughts is that this is all sour grapes for being too lazy to get out of bed and spend one hour a week in worship of God with mass. Their thought process is if I can make a case that religion is bad then geez I don’t need to get up and go to mass.
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I don’t think that’s the guy’s premise at all. He is one of those believers who expresses disdain for “organized religion” while having laid old of what he (errantly) believes is the fullness of his salvation in a single event. (See Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”? ) This is pretty much where the whole “non-denominational church” bit came from.

You need to avoid the rash generalization fallacy like this. The guy likely attends services as much or more than many Catholics do (because he wants to), but, as I’ve pointed out, his remarks/poem errs in the context of the Word of God.
 
Church_Militant said:
I don’t think that’s the guy’s premise at all. He is one of those believers who expresses disdain for “organized religion” while having laid old of what he (errantly) believes is the fullness of his salvation in a single event. (See Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”? ) This is pretty much where the whole “non-denominational church” bit came from.

You need to avoid the rash generalization fallacy like this. The guy likely attends services as much or more than many Catholics do (because he wants to), but, as I’ve pointed out, his remarks/poem errs in the context of the Word of God.
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I think you’re right about this guy. He probably does go to church. However, I think there are a LOT of people out there that use that type of argument to justify not going.
 
callmeChris said:
We all see these comments and beliefs almost every day? What’s the best way to tackle these anti- church philosophies?
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I watched it. I watched responses, dozens by mostly catholics. Maybe that just happened to be the ones I saw. First I must put this in the perspective I see it in. I was walking down a street with two women. One fat and one thin. As we walked car drove by an the passenger yelled out something about a girl being sexy. The thin girl criticized the passenger for making such remarks about her. The fat girl quickly took offense. The next time we were walking and sure enough, another passenger yelled similar words, the thin girl said, “who does that guy think he is talk about you like that”.

Another story: we were at a dinner for KOC inductees with our priest, and we had driven 9 hours to be at this location. Five of us made the drive, and father knew little about our trip, but during the dinner one of us mentioned how we almost died (an exaggeration) due to someones driving. Suddenly, another person said “Hey we promised that we would not talk about what happened in the car”. I laughed. I really chuckled and everyone stared at me as to what I thought was so funny. It was a tense moment! But I just said: “Bob never said who was driving and gave no clue but it’s funny because Father knows exactly who was driving”.

In the video the rapper never points names. In fact he literally refers specifically to jewish religion in his examples. He mentions divorce but many churches within the christian denominations have discussion on this. He mentions expensive churches, but most church of any christian and non christian group have value. He does point out that Christianity is not a religion but Jesus loving us. So clearly he did not mean christians. Which is why I wonder why any Catholic felt he meant Catholicism in his negative examples was what he meant.

I liked this message because it was one persons attempt to be honest and sincere although somewhat vain and dramatic. I don’t have issues reconciling it with my faith because I don’t see the insults as being owned by the Catholic church. The catholic church is the example he was referring to that we should follow–as far as I could tell he found Jesus in a Catholic Church. That’s how I saw it! Now in light of the fact that no one else saw that message is the troubling part–perhaps I don’t know the background history of the rapper or perhaps I don’t realize how “religious” catholicism is. In order to be insulted one must own the insult. If if the insulter meant one person or group, anyone can own it.

Further, if he was referring to the Catholic church I am still happy he found Christ. Clearly this young man was lost, lost in a church! He was deep in sin, he felt he could not fit in (oh no now I’m rapping too). But the reality is real people come to church and have real problems. He’s right there are men and women in every church, including every christian church I’ve been to, that literally mask themselves. Our halls of worship should be a hospital for the sinful. And here’s the thing, no matter how many rebuttals we can post arguing against what he said, he spoke only for his own personal witness and experience. This might have been seen by 10 or 20 million, but it was meant only from his view. And he’s not alone. Millions of youth feel separated from church and feel lost. They feel that way in Methodist, Episcopalian, Baptist, Islamic, Jewish, Catholic, Orthodox, NonDenominational, Pentecostal, Adventist, Mormon, Jehovah, and the list goes on and on.

I personally find it ironic that a christian needs to accept Jesus but sometimes in church (any church) our youth can get lost perhaps because they aren’t really open to trying. If this is the Catholic church referenced in the video, then this should not be taking this video as an insult but as a strong witness of how our youth really feel (at least this one man). Worst, even here in CAF I’ve read posts mocking (as if it’s possible) individuals for wanting to feel an uplifting powerful personal experience in church. As if such a thing is not even available within Catholicism. But whatever he mean…I’m happy for him that he found a closer relationship with Christ. To him whether he is right or wrong is irrelevant. He’s finally left a sinful life and he did so doing something that he never really felt he could do in church: Pray to Christ and let christ into his life. Now I don’t know why he felt that. But that’s a real issue and if we can address that issue then perhaps we can really make a difference in our church.

The reality is that our friend likely does not really believe in not attending church. He might go to church or assembly or worship in a building that costs more than your church. He might not have really done anything in his life involving charity as he mentions. And the truth is that he only takes the time to really attack his old self and old ways that were absent of true belief. In essence he attacks attending service without belief.
 
callmeChris said:
We all see these comments and beliefs almost every day? What’s the best way to tackle these anti- church philosophies?
Click to expand...
I watched that video rap. I watched responses, dozens by mostly catholics. Maybe that just happened to be the ones I saw. First I must put this in the perspective I see it in. I was walking down a street with two women. One fat and one thin. As we walked car drove by an the passenger yelled out something about a girl being sexy. The thin girl criticized the passenger for making such remarks about her. The fat girl quickly took offense. The next time we were walking and sure enough, another passenger yelled similar words, the thin girl said, “who does that guy think he is talk about you like that”.

Another story: we were at a dinner for KOC inductees with our priest, and we had driven 9 hours to be at this location. Five of us made the drive, and father knew little about our trip, but during the dinner one of us mentioned how we almost died (an exaggeration) due to someones driving. Suddenly, another person said “Hey we promised that we would not talk about what happened in the car”. I laughed. I really chuckled and everyone stared at me as to what I thought was so funny. It was a tense moment! But I just said: “Bob never said who was driving and gave no clue but it’s funny because Father knows exactly who was driving”.

In the video the rapper never points names. In fact he literally refers specifically to jewish religion in his examples. He mentions divorce but many churches within the christian denominations have discussion on this. He mentions expensive churches, but most church of any christian and non christian group have value. He does point out that Christianity is not a religion but Jesus loving us. So clearly he did not mean christians. Which is why I wonder why any Catholic felt he meant Catholicism.

I liked this message because it was one persons attempt to be honest and sincere although somewhat vain and dramatic. I don’t have issues reconciling it with my faith because I don’t see the insults as being owned by the Catholic church. The catholic church is the example he was referring to that we should follow–as far as I could tell he found Jesus in a Catholic Church. That’s how I saw it! Now in light of the fact that no one else saw that message is the troubling part–perhaps I don’t know the background history of the rapper or perhaps I don’t realize how “religious” catholicism is. In order to be insulted one must own the insult. If if the insulter meant one person or group, anyone can own it.

Further, if he was referring to the Catholic church I am still happy he found Christ. Clearly this young man was lost, lost in a church! He was deep in sin, he felt he could not fit in (oh no now I’m rapping too). But the reality is real people come to church and have real problems. He’s right there are men and women in every church, including every christian church I’ve been to, that literally mask themselves. Our halls of worship should be a hospital for the sinful. And here’s the thing, no matter how many rebuttals we can post arguing against what he said, he spoke only for his own personal witness and experience. This might have been seen by 10 or 20 million, but it was meant only from his view. And he’s not alone. Millions of youth feel separated from church and feel lost. They feel that way in Methodist, Episcopalian, Baptist, Islamic, Jewish, Catholic, Orthodox, NonDenominational, Pentecostal, Adventist, Mormon, Jehovah, and the list goes on and on.

I personally find it ironic that a christian needs to accept Jesus but sometimes in church (any church) our youth can get lost perhaps because they aren’t really open to trying. If this is the Catholic church referenced in the video, then this should not be taking this video as an insult but as a strong witness of how our youth really feel (at least this one man). Worst, even here in CAF I’ve read posts mocking (as if it’s possible) individuals for wanting to feel an uplifting powerful personal experience in church. As if such a thing is not even available within Catholicism. But whatever he mean…I’m happy for him that he found a closer relationship with Christ. To him whether he is right or wrong is irrelevant. He’s finally left a sinful life and he did so doing something that he never really felt he could do in church: Pray to Christ and let christ into his life. Now I don’t know why he felt that. But that’s a real issue and if we can address that issue then perhaps we can really make a difference in our church.
 
couponfit said:
…In the video the rapper never points names. In fact he literally refers specifically to jewish religion in his examples. He mentions divorce but many churches within the christian denominations have discussion on this. He mentions expensive churches, but most church of any christian and non christian group have value. He does point out that Christianity is not a religion but Jesus loving us. So clearly he did not mean christians. Which is why I wonder why any Catholic felt he meant Catholicism in his negative examples was what he meant.

I liked this message because it was one persons attempt to be honest and sincere although somewhat vain and dramatic. I don’t have issues reconciling it with my faith because I don’t see the insults as being owned by the Catholic church. The catholic church is the example he was referring to that we should follow–as far as I could tell he found Jesus in a Catholic Church. That’s how I saw it! Now in light of the fact that no one else saw that message is the troubling part–perhaps I don’t know the background history of the rapper or perhaps I don’t realize how “religious” catholicism is. In order to be insulted one must own the insult. If if the insulter meant one person or group, anyone can own it…
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Basically, the problem was, the fact that he was ambiguous, also redefining the word “religious” as he has said that the community he attends (Mars Hill Bible Church) has done, has not helped him get the correct message out with this video. when asked, he has said"

“…the word ‘religion’ is used to connotate those who are counting on their self-righteousness to earn salvation. It can be Jews, Muslims, etc. but Christians as well who think that by their good works, deeds, and obedience they will find themselves earning their own salvation. There is no hate behind the poem toward any person. There is, however, disgust with the distortion of the gospel that says we can earn salvation. Eph 2:8-19, Tit. 3:3-8. It’s by God’s unmerited grace alone that we are saved.”

This would fit most protestant cliches’ of Catholicism, their is no wonder that many Catholics got offended. The man has very little theological background, and for the most part, is just regurgitating what his pastor has told him. This is possibly why he used the word, “religious” instead of “self-righteous” or “hypocrite”. All three are synonyms to him. He has admit to all the above, and when asked in an interview, if he could do the video over again, would he have used a different word, he the said “…maybe”.
 
I wasn’t insulted, just thought it was dumb. He says he hates religion, then makes a video which preaches his religion! Does he think that his theology, no matter how ill-developed, does not constitute religion?
 
The commentary from the video-maker that Irish Pollock provided in Post #200 shows how the ambiguity of the video-maker’s message has obscured what he is, seemingly, trying to teach. It also shows that when he attempts to provide clarity he contradicts himself.

For example, in his commentary he said that he uses the word “religion” to reference “those who are counting on their self-righteousness to earn salvation” (emphasis added). In other words, for him, “religion” means “self-righteous people.” That is who the term “those” refers to. Now, consider the following…

His video is titled, “Why I Hate Religion but Love Jesus”,
and at the end of the video he states, “That’s why I literally hate religion, in fact I resent it.”

Because his commentary says that he uses the term “religion” to signify “self-righteous people,” we can substitute the latter term for the former in the following manner:
“Why I Hate Self-Righteous People but Love Jesus”
and “That’s why I literally hate self-righteous people, in fact I resent them.” This is, after all, what the plain words of his poem & commentary state.

But shortly after that (in the same commentary) he said, “There is no hate behind the poem toward any person.” Hence, the contradiction. Does he hate self-righteous people or not? I don’t think that he is, sincerely, hating or trying to condemn certain people, but rather is warning people against the behaviors associated with a self-righteous mentality. Nevertheless, it would be better for him to have said that he was criticizing a self-righteous attitude rather than people, but he didn’t. This would have been a more “pastoral” approach, but apparently it still hasn’t occurred to him.

What I don’t like about this video is that he condemns judgmental, self-righteous people, but does so in a way that comes across (at least to me) in a judgmental, self-righteous fashion. I also don’t like how he has “highjacked” the term “religion” to redefine it to mean “self-righteousness” and “hypocrisy”. That’s not what the word “religion” means. Jesus spoke out against the problems of self-righteousness and hypocrisy without redefining words, and without making statements that seemed to condemn religion. I suggest that the guy who made the video should have done likewise.
 
A lot of my friends keep sharing this video of a poem written by a nondenominationist:

youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY&feature=share

Being part of the Church, this poem doesnt sit well with me. A lot of my Christian friends are nondenominational, and often have the idea that the Church is bad and needs to be abolished.
In the video, the speaker refers to how Jesus used to call religious people out and came to “abolish” religion. He claims the Church can’t even feed the poor, yet can afford beautiful Churches.

I don’t think the Church needs abolishing, nor do I think just “being in a relationship with Jesus” is enough. How do I explain to my friends why I oppose what this man is saying?
 
Rebekah_34 said:
A lot of my friends keep sharing this video of a poem written by a nondenominationist:

youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY&feature=share

Being part of the Church, this poem doesnt sit well with me. A lot of my Christian friends are nondenominational, and often have the idea that the Church is bad and needs to be abolished.
In the video, the speaker refers to how Jesus used to call religious people out and came to “abolish” religion. He claims the Church can’t even feed the poor, yet can afford beautiful Churches.

I don’t think the Church needs abolishing, nor do I think just “being in a relationship with Jesus” is enough. How do I explain to my friends why I oppose what this man is saying?
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The man is powerful, the music is good, the poem well done, the pictures and video and image good, except for that castle on the background. why a Castle?

The man knows not what he is saying. That is pure music and rhythm and rhyme, no more. He speaks as if he were the Pope, giving more dogmas per second that the Pope in the entire 2000 years.

In fact, who is he to make such strong statements?

That is pure brainwashing machine, nothing else. In the end, I could not memorize anything he said that would be worthwhile memorizing…

Common places after commons places that would not stand a 14 year old Catholic counter-attack.
 
Rebekah_34 said:
A lot of my friends keep sharing this video of a poem written by a nondenominationist:

youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY&feature=share

Being part of the Church, this poem doesnt sit well with me. A lot of my Christian friends are nondenominational, and often have the idea that the Church is bad and needs to be abolished.
In the video, the speaker refers to how Jesus used to call religious people out and came to “abolish” religion. He claims the Church can’t even feed the poor, yet can afford beautiful Churches.

I don’t think the Church needs abolishing, nor do I think just “being in a relationship with Jesus” is enough. How do I explain to my friends why I oppose what this man is saying?
Click to expand...
Tell your friends that life is too short to spend watching videos made by well meaning, but ignorant people. Tell them that you believe the entire bible, not just your favorite parts of it. Or Pastor’s favorite parts.
 
Rebekah_34 said:
A lot of my friends keep sharing this video of a poem written by a nondenominationist:

youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY&feature=share

Being part of the Church, this poem doesnt sit well with me. A lot of my Christian friends are nondenominational, and often have the idea that the Church is bad and needs to be abolished.
In the video, the speaker refers to how Jesus used to call religious people out and came to “abolish” religion. He claims the Church can’t even feed the poor, yet can afford beautiful Churches.

I don’t think the Church needs abolishing, nor do I think just “being in a relationship with Jesus” is enough. How do I explain to my friends why I oppose what this man is saying?
Click to expand...
I knew as soon as I saw the title you would be referring to that video.

The video does not make sense because Jesus was a religious person, he practiced Judaism, he went to Synagogue, he observed Jewish holy days, he founded the Church, he ordained the Priesthood and the Sacraments etc. So you can not separate Jesus from religion.

Here are some Catholic responses:

youtube.com/watch?v=naOEWK4nTsI

youtube.com/watch?v=4iqcrQYQTQs

youtube.com/watch?v=8dqnfz4y8uA

youtube.com/watch?v=AwetTNAGC44

youtube.com/watch?v=SejuPK4M330

youtube.com/watch?v=RyNRXD13RS4

Check out Father Barron’s channel tomorrow because he will be posting a response to the poem:

youtube.com/user/wordonfirevideo

More responses:

catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=24948

catholicdefense.blogspot.com/2012/01/jesus-v-religion.html

phatcatholic.blogspot.com/2012/01/response-to-why-i-hate-religion-but.html

patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2012/01/why-i-hate-religion-but-love-jesus-the-smackdow.html

marysaggies.blogspot.com/2012/01/does-jesus-hate-religion-should-you.html

Response from Orthodox Priest: roadsfromemmaus.org/2012/01/12/why-i-love-true-religion-because-i-love-jesus/
 
Jesus never said to abolish religion. He founded a Church. And that Church teaches what He taught. The Church also produced a bible. Without religion, Christianity would have perished in 50 years, with no Church and no bible.
 
Numerous facebook friends posted this video and two of whom belong to evangelical bible churches. I have been friends with these 2 for yrs and although we don’t always agree on doctrine we have always been civil. However this video offended me deeply and I told them so. They of course started with the whole Jesus doesn’t ask of us to do anything, but love Him and you can’t get to Heaven through works, but by faith. So I sent them a video:
:. This video shows the biblical basis for our “works” and also I explained to them that they too are religious. They may not belong to a particular denomination, but they subscribe to a church that has a specific set of beliefs that they all follow. I really others would just take the time to get to know us, the real us.
 
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