Answering Islam

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You don’t have to be either a Christian or Muslim. Non-belief is certainly an option.
I don’t agree with you, I think everyone should be believing in God, now if he/she is wrong on the correct path of God then that’s something else, by researching and reading scriptures someone should find the true path, and certainly non-belief is not an option at all.
 
Well finally I got some time to add my 2cents (plus change)

The main objection put forward so far is that the Triniterian formula seen at the end of Matthew’s Gospel was an addition that does not reflect the true identity of Jesus proving the falsehood of Christ’s divinity.

Instead of making a whole case on one verse one should look at the overall message in the NT

**Jesus is called God **(e.g. John1:1, John20:28)
**Jesus is called Lord **(Greek kyrios ; Aramaic mar).
Being that Jews could not utter the true name of God (YHWH), Jews used the word “Lord” to refer to God. By Jesus’ time this became a word exclusively used for God. An example of this was recorded by the historian Josephus where Jews refused to address the Roman-emperor as “lord” on grounds that they would be blaspheming.
**Jesus is Saviour **(e.g. Acts 4:12 “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.")
Again this is important when seen through the Jewish culture of the time. For Jews, God alone could save. The OT is riddled with stories of the consequences Israel had to endure for not evoking God to save them but instead sought to allied themselves with foreign armies. (e.g. Isaiah 45:21-22 “… a righteous God and a saviour. There is none apart from me. Turn to me and be saved…”)
Jesus is worshipped
The Apostles on several occasions worshipped Jesus e.g. Matt 14:33 “And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “You are certainly God’s Son!””
Jesus forgives sins
We see in the Gospel accounts Jews criticising Jesus for forgiving people of their sins as this too is an act which only God can bestow.

So we can see that the writers of the NT were willing to attribute the divinity of God to Jesus and I will add this is also seen through the writings of the early Church as others have already pointed out.

Following from this it is important to note something we all know … Jesus did not write any of his teachings. This is of great significance because it means that he made the concious choice to rely exclusively on his apostles to do the teaching after his death. Jesus had to be pretty confident in their capacity to do this otherwise he would not have left it all up to them and would have intervened somehow.

Now apart from this there are several teachings given by Jesus in the NT that clearly are at odds with the Muslim tradition. Just to name a few

  1. *]Baptism (whether by Jesus’ name or the triniterian formula – not important) is clearly seen in the NT and practised throughout Christian history but not in the Muslim tradition.
    *]Celebration of the Eucharist. Whether Christ is really present is not important for this argument either. Jesus commanded to “do this in remembrance of me” and history shows Christians practising this command of Jesus but not Muslims.
    *]God as Father. This is an important point because it is a massive departing point from the view Muslim’s hold of God. God as Father means God in relationship, a God that wishes to be known, a God that is interested and affected by our afflictions because he loves us as his children.
    *]Marriage to only one partner…no explanation required I think.

    The reason why I mention these points is because it shows that no matter which way you look you see a different faith and practise being taught to that found in Islam. Nothing that is of any significance that is mentioned in the NT is practised in Islam. Even the smallest of guidances Jesus gave us in the NT must be denied by Muslims like the prayer of the Our Father. Even this prayer is not in accordance with Muslim faith.

    As I mentioned before to make the accusation, which is more a conspiracy theory than anything else, that there was an apostasy in the early Church which uprooted the Muslim Jesus with the Christian one is totally at odds with the historical truth presented to us. To believe in the apostasy is to at worst call Jesus a fraud and at best an incompetent and foolish man for none of the teachings that he supposedly ought to have taught were transmitted to even his apostles (So there is no such thing as Jesus being a good prophet). There is no historical evidence for a Muslim Jesus even within heretical or gentile groups of the 1st and 2nd century. The only thing a Muslim apologist can do is create unsubstantiated doubt which is not sufficient for any reasonable person to take seriously.

    PS Someone brought the “begotten” argument against Jesus’ divinity. Once again if you want a good explanation of the trinity I urge you to read Origen’s “De Principiis” Book1 Chpt 1-3 found in www.newadvent.org

    with this I bid all good night and God bless

    Alex
 
Salaam/peace

Concept of God in World Religions

by Dr. Zakir Naik

PHILOSOPHY OF ANTHROPOMORPHISM

Many religions at some point believe, directly or indirectly, in the philosophy of anthropomorphism i.e. God becoming a human.

Their contention is that Almighty God is so pure and holy that He is unaware of the hardships, shortcomings and feelings of human beings. In order to set the rules for human beings, He came down to earth as a human. This deceptive logic has fooled countless millions through the ages. Let us now analyze this argument and see if it stands to reason.

The Creator prepares the instruction manual:

Suppose I manufacture a video cassette recorder (VCR). Do I have to become a VCR to know what is good or what is bad for the VCR? What do I do?

I write an instruction manual: “In order to watch a video cassette, insert the cassette and press the play button. In order to stop, press the stop button. If you want to fast forward press the FF button. Do not drop it from a height or it will get damaged. Do not immerse it in water or it will get spoilt”. I write an instruction manual that lists the various do’s and don’ts for the machine.

Holy Qur’an is the instruction manual for the human being:

Similarly, our Lord and Creator Allah (swt) need not take human form to know what is good or bad for the human being. He chooses to reveal the instruction manual.

The last and final instruction manual of the human beings is the Glorious Qur’an. The ‘dos’ and ‘don’ts’ for the human beings are mentioned in the Qur’an.

saif_w.tripod.com/interfaith/general/god/inislam.htm
Have you read the Quran? Would you say that everything that the Quran and the Hadith teaches should be followed?
 
Although I agree with you on the pork part, but you misunderstood our fellow InJesus, she is not mocking anyone, indeed she is showing the truth here because Arabic is her native language and in my opinion she knows Islam better than “Zakir Naik”, that guy born in India, educated in India, has M.B.B.S in medicine from India, doesn’t know Arabic, I don’t have anything against India (indeed some of my best friends here in SA are from India) but you will not understand the depth and the truth about Islam unless you fluently know Arabic and have lived with Ishmael’s descendants for long time. I assure you that non of our Saudi Muslims will even read or consider any fatwa issued by him, they are using him to brainwash non-Arabic people in the west through his continuous propaganda about Islam.
You do not have to know Arabic language in order to fully understand Islam. There are many Christians who live in non Arab Muslim majority countries such as Pakistan, Iran, Brunei and Malaysia and know what it is like to be subjugated and given the name “Dhimmi”. Consider reading Jihadwatch.org by Robert Spencer!
 
Salaam/peace
In Islam, you cannot ask.
who told u so ? It’s ok if u & others don’t like Islam but it does not mean u should spread wrong info . God says in Quran : Ask those who know .

Before taking any imp decision , it’s best to ask God for help . Prophet (p) encouraged us to offer dua/supplication like this :

O God, I seek Your help in finding out the best course of action (in this matter) by invoking Your knowledge; I ask You to empower me, and I beseech Your favor. You alone have the absolute power, while I have no power.

You alone know it all, while I do not. You are the One Who knows the hidden mysteries. O God, if You know this thing (I am embarking on) [here mention your case] is good for me in my religion, worldly life, and my ultimate destiny, then facilitate it for me, and then bless me in my action.

If, on the other hand, You know this thing is detrimental for me in my religion, worldly life, and ultimate destiny, turn it away from me, and turn me away from it, and decree what is good for me, wherever it may be, and make me content with it

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543882
 
Salaam/peace

who told u so ? It’s ok if u & others don’t like Islam but it does not mean u should spread wrong info . God says in Quran : Ask those who know .

Before taking any imp decision , it’s best to ask God for help . Prophet (p) encouraged us to offer dua/supplication like this :

O God, I seek Your help in finding out the best course of action (in this matter) by invoking Your knowledge; I ask You to empower me, and I beseech Your favor. You alone have the absolute power, while I have no power.

You alone know it all, while I do not. You are the One Who knows the hidden mysteries. O God, if You know this thing (I am embarking on) [here mention your case] is good for me in my religion, worldly life, and my ultimate destiny, then facilitate it for me, and then bless me in my action.

If, on the other hand, You know this thing is detrimental for me in my religion, worldly life, and ultimate destiny, turn it away from me, and turn me away from it, and decree what is good for me, wherever it may be, and make me content with it

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543882
I will get back to you to link you to the respective thread. Sorry no time for that for today.

BTW, why don’t you ask to the knowing person such as Why a True God such as Allah ever command you to direct your prayer to a thing in which Allah does not there? You told me that you can ask, correct? Don’t forget to share the answer with us, here.
 
Salaam/peace
… Why a True God such as Allah ever command you to direct your prayer to a thing in which Allah does not there? .
answered several times . We don’t worship Kaaba , it’s the direction for prayer .
 
Here is my answer to Mahometanism:

I bear witness there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead!
 
I do not “subscribe” to any Islamic teachings. I am a Catholic, and proud of it. Perhaps you could better phrase your question?
When you said :
“I have recently really begun to question my Catholic faith (not doubt it, but rather seeking reasons for my faith) and I have been reading about Islam”,

You have inadvertently stated your underlying interest towards a religion that could not reconcile the 2 sets of thinking that I posed at the beginning of this thread. If that is too complex or too damning for you to answer, please say so and at least it will be an honest opinion. Since mine was a perfectly valid premise of a question it deserves nothing less…
 
You have inadvertently stated your underlying interest towards a religion that could not reconcile the 2 sets of thinking that I posed at the beginning of this thread.
I never once implied or stated my desire to become a Muslim or leave the Catholic faith. Please don’t assume anything. Maybe you missed the part where I said I was “seeking reasons for my faith?”
If that is too complex
Here I could assume you are calling me stupid, but I doubt that anybody would do such a thing to somebody of their own faith who is simply trying to understand something.
Since mine was a perfectly valid premise of a question it deserves nothing less…
The premise of your question is fabricated upon your false assumptions.
 
I apologize. I can understand your offense to my having thought you might convert to Islam. I hope that you find the answers you are looking for. Peace.
Thank you also, Allnamesused. Apology accepted. Also, thank you for the rest of your previous post, which I am looking into. I hope that I am able to find answers to my questions. It seems that all anybody else on here wants to do is attack me for asking them in the first place! Pax.
 
Well finally I got some time to add my 2cents (plus change)

The main objection put forward so far is that the Triniterian formula seen at the end of Matthew’s Gospel was an addition that does not reflect the true identity of Jesus proving the falsehood of Christ’s divinity.

Instead of making a whole case on one verse one should look at the overall message in the NT

**Jesus is called God **(e.g. John1:1, John20:28)
**Jesus is called Lord **(Greek kyrios ; Aramaic mar).
Being that Jews could not utter the true name of God (YHWH), Jews used the word “Lord” to refer to God. By Jesus’ time this became a word exclusively used for God. An example of this was recorded by the historian Josephus where Jews refused to address the Roman-emperor as “lord” on grounds that they would be blaspheming.
**Jesus is Saviour **(e.g. Acts 4:12 “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.")
Again this is important when seen through the Jewish culture of the time. For Jews, God alone could save. The OT is riddled with stories of the consequences Israel had to endure for not evoking God to save them but instead sought to allied themselves with foreign armies. (e.g. Isaiah 45:21-22 “… a righteous God and a saviour. There is none apart from me. Turn to me and be saved…”)
Jesus is worshipped
The Apostles on several occasions worshipped Jesus e.g. Matt 14:33 “And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “You are certainly God’s Son!””
Jesus forgives sins
We see in the Gospel accounts Jews criticising Jesus for forgiving people of their sins as this too is an act which only God can bestow.

So we can see that the writers of the NT were willing to attribute the divinity of God to Jesus and I will add this is also seen through the writings of the early Church as others have already pointed out.

Following from this it is important to note something we all know … Jesus did not write any of his teachings. This is of great significance because it means that he made the concious choice to rely exclusively on his apostles to do the teaching after his death. Jesus had to be pretty confident in their capacity to do this otherwise he would not have left it all up to them and would have intervened somehow.

Now apart from this there are several teachings given by Jesus in the NT that clearly are at odds with the Muslim tradition. Just to name a few

  1. *]Baptism (whether by Jesus’ name or the triniterian formula – not important) is clearly seen in the NT and practised throughout Christian history but not in the Muslim tradition.
    *]Celebration of the Eucharist. Whether Christ is really present is not important for this argument either. Jesus commanded to “do this in remembrance of me” and history shows Christians practising this command of Jesus but not Muslims.
    *]God as Father. This is an important point because it is a massive departing point from the view Muslim’s hold of God. God as Father means God in relationship, a God that wishes to be known, a God that is interested and affected by our afflictions because he loves us as his children.
    *]Marriage to only one partner…no explanation required I think.

    The reason why I mention these points is because it shows that no matter which way you look you see a different faith and practise being taught to that found in Islam. Nothing that is of any significance that is mentioned in the NT is practised in Islam. Even the smallest of guidances Jesus gave us in the NT must be denied by Muslims like the prayer of the Our Father. Even this prayer is not in accordance with Muslim faith.

    As I mentioned before to make the accusation, which is more a conspiracy theory than anything else, that there was an apostasy in the early Church which uprooted the Muslim Jesus with the Christian one is totally at odds with the historical truth presented to us. To believe in the apostasy is to at worst call Jesus a fraud and at best an incompetent and foolish man for none of the teachings that he supposedly ought to have taught were transmitted to even his apostles (So there is no such thing as Jesus being a good prophet). There is no historical evidence for a Muslim Jesus even within heretical or gentile groups of the 1st and 2nd century. The only thing a Muslim apologist can do is create unsubstantiated doubt which is not sufficient for any reasonable person to take seriously.

    PS Someone brought the “begotten” argument against Jesus’ divinity. Once again if you want a good explanation of the trinity I urge you to read Origen’s “De Principiis” Book1 Chpt 1-3 found in www.newadvent.org

    with this I bid all good night and God bless

    Alex

  1. Thank you Alex for answering my questions head-on. God Bless, Schnitz

    PS Anything else you might want to continue to add on would be greatly appreciated.
 
I never once implied or stated my desire to become a Muslim or leave the Catholic faith. Please don’t assume anything. Maybe you missed the part where I said I was “seeking reasons for my faith?”

Here I could assume you are calling me stupid, but I doubt that anybody would do such a thing to somebody of their own faith who is simply trying to understand something.

The premise of your question is fabricated upon your false assumptions.
I must say that I thought the same thing as Chancellare and I think everyone else. But since re-reading your OP I have realized that I was wrong. At first reading though it is easy to make this mistake.

You said you have been reading about Islam. There is a really good book titled "Inside Islam: A guide for Catholics by Daniel Ali a muslim convert to Catholicism. I must say that after reading it, I became very concerned. I have come to the conclusion that the only reason that the likes of Sept 11 is not more widespread is because most muslims have not really read the Quran and if they have, commonsense have prevailed and have not followed it.

The way they see the world is quite chilling. It is no wonder that it has been spread at the point of the sword.

I think you are one who likes ratiional and logical arguments, so I think you will like this book.🙂
 
Thank you Alex for answering my questions head-on. God Bless, Schnitz

PS Anything else you might want to continue to add on would be greatly appreciated.
Glad I could help. My only advice is keep asking, keep learning but be careful. Something I have found in my own journey is that apologetics because it deals primarily with head stuff can stop you focusing in spiritual growth … be sure to balance the two. Being in the right religion does not mean being in the right relationship with God.

For your faith to grow it needs to be challenged so be willing to ask the hard questions …The greatest challenge is to convert our own soul.
 
Salaam/peace

answered several times . We don’t worship Kaaba , it’s the direction for prayer .
My original question was WHY ALLAH COMMAND YOU TO FACE KAABA WHEN PRAYING? I don’t bother whether you are worshipping Kaaba or not. It is your right.
 
Salaam/peace

look how our 2 sisters in USA offering Salat/ daily prayer. They know they must face towards Kaaba ; so there is no argument about in which direction they should face. If there was no such rule , Muslims could have arguments all the times about it.

http://bp0.blogger.com/_B6gyINLrSBg/RqS4iuikHuI/AAAAAAAABH4/qSHFBCn3Y78/s1600/Salat700.jpg

newyorkdailyphoto.blogspot.com/2007/07/salat.
Those 2 sisters you mentioned in USA or anywhere are facing Kaaba while offering Salat, I have no problem with that. It is their right to face anywhere. My question is WHY ALLAH COMMAND YOU TO FACE SPECIFICALLY TO KAABA WHEN OFFERING SALAT? (While previously the direction was to Jerusalem).
 
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