Answering Islam

[inJESUS]

Here we go again…

Q = Why Muslim face the direction of Kaaba when praying?
A = Because Allah said so

 

[alexaustralia]

As you may already noticed I like reading the ECF (Early Church Fathers; currently reading Origen’s works hence reason why I keep refering to him) anyways found this on the incarnation … so decided to share

CHAP. VI.–ON THE INCARNATION OF CHRIST.

1. It is now time, after this cursory notice of these points, to resume our investigation of the incarnation of our Lord and Saviour, viz., how or why He became man. Having therefore, to the best of our feeble ability, considered His divine nature from the contemplation of His own works rather than from our own feelings, … Seeing, moreover, those declarations regarding His majesty which are contained in holy Scripture, that He is called the “image of the invisible God, and the first-born of every creature,” and that “in Him were all things created, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers, all things were created by Him, and in Him: and He is before all things, and by Him all things consist,”(6) who is the head of all things, alone having as head God the Father; for it is written, "The head of Christ is God; "(7) seeing clearly also that it is written, “No one knoweth the Father, save the Son, nor doth any one know the Son, save the Father”(8) (for who can know what wisdom is, save He who called it into being? or, who can understand clearly what truth is, save the Father of truth? who can investigate with certainty the universal nature of His Word, and of God Himself, which nature proceeds from God, except God alone, with whom the Word was), we ought to regard it as certain that this Word, or Reason (if it is to be so termed), this Wisdom, this Truth, is known to no other than the Father only; and of Him it is written, that “I do not think that the world itself could contain the books which might be written,”(9) regarding, viz., the glory and majesty of the Son of God. For it is impossible to commit to writing (all) those particulars which belong to the glory of the Saviour. After the consideration of questions of such importance concerning the being of the Son of God, we are lost in the deepest amazement that such a nature, pre-eminent above all others, should have divested itself of its condition of majesty and become man, and tabernacled amongst men, as the grace that was poured upon His lips testifies, and as His heavenly Father bore Him witness, and as is confessed by the various signs and wonders and miracles(10) that were performed by Him; who also, before that appearance of His which He manifested in the body, sent the prophets as His forerunners, and the messengers of His advent; and after His ascension into heaven, made His holy apostles, men ignorant and unlearned, taken from the ranks of tax-gatherers or fishermen, but who were filled with the power of His divinity, to itinerate throughout the world, that they might gather together out of every race and every nation a multitude of devout believers in Himself.

 

[swariffin]

that’s the best answer you’ll get.

 

[benedictus2]

sis benedictus2, thanks for reminding me. The word sword is not to be found in the Quran. See the entire Quran, you will not find the word “sword” in it. But it is very much found in the bible NT.
There is no teaching in the Quran to spread any religion by sword. It is forbidden to do that…

Those who are converted to Islam by sword would never fight for the sake of Islam, like they fought defending their faith in Islam against two great military religious powers, Rome and Persia.

Then how do you explain the Quran telling Muslims to kill the unbelievers, are they supposed to shoot them? The gun was not yet invented then

 

[dzheremi]

The word “sword” may not occur in Planten’s Quran (though it apparently does occur in the Quran once according to Mohsin Khan’s English translation, it is of no significance to the discussion). This means nothing, of course.

The word “kill” apparently occurs 133 times in 101 verses in that same translation. It occurs in such wonderful verses as these:

(10) And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #191)

(31) They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliya (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allah (to Muhammad SAW). But if they turn back (from Islam), take (hold) of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither Auliya (protectors or friends) nor helpers from them.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #89)

(52) You killed them not, but Allah killed them. And you (Muhammad SAW) threw not when you did throw but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair trial from Him. Verily, Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
( سورة الأنفال , Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #17)

etc., etc.

This last one is especially disturbing (I had read the first two before). Apparently, when Muhammad does something like killing people or driving them from their homes, it is not Muhammad doing it, but Allah. Muhammad’s actions are Allah’s actions, even in cases of murder…?

 

[swariffin]

The word “sword” may not occur in Planten’s Quran (though it apparently does occur in the Quran once according to Mohsin Khan’s English translation, it is of no significance to the discussion). This means nothing, of course.

The word “kill” apparently occurs 133 times in 101 verses in that same translation. It occurs in such wonderful verses as these:

(10) And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #191)

(31) They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliya (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allah (to Muhammad SAW). But if they turn back (from Islam), take (hold) of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither Auliya (protectors or friends) nor helpers from them.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #89)

(52) You killed them not, but Allah killed them. And you (Muhammad SAW) threw not when you did throw but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair trial from Him. Verily, Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
( سورة الأنفال , Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #17)

etc., etc.

This last one is especially disturbing (I had read the first two before). Apparently, when Muhammad does something like killing people or driving them from their homes, it is not Muhammad doing it, but Allah. Muhammad’s actions are Allah’s actions, even in cases of murder…?

Dear Dzheremi,

Planten promised to teach us (especially me) on how to relate this into the peaceful face of Islam. I can’t wait to see his points, but let us give him some time. I hope he can have something serious for us. To me, he looks funnier with his reasoning.

 

[benedictus2]

The word “sword” may not occur in Planten’s Quran (though it apparently does occur in the Quran once according to Mohsin Khan’s English translation, it is of no significance to the discussion). This means nothing, of course.

The word “kill” apparently occurs 133 times in 101 verses in that same translation. It occurs in such wonderful verses as these:

(10) And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #191)

(31) They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliya (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allah (to Muhammad SAW). But if they turn back (from Islam), take (hold) of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither Auliya (protectors or friends) nor helpers from them.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #89)

(52) You killed them not, but Allah killed them. And you (Muhammad SAW) threw not when you did throw but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair trial from Him. Verily, Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
( سورة الأنفال , Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #17)

etc., etc.

This last one is especially disturbing (I had read the first two before). Apparently, when Muhammad does something like killing people or driving them from their homes, it is not Muhammad doing it, but Allah. Muhammad’s actions are Allah’s actions, even in cases of murder…?

Which brings me back to my question. Were they supposed to shoot them? Okay, I suppose what was invogue then was death by stoning.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

… death by stoning.

stoning punishment u will find in Bible.

(Stoning To Death) “…, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, …shall stone him with stones, that he die” (Deuteronomy 21:20-21).

“For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death” (Mark 7:10).

& More

Bible Punishment Quiz

landoverbaptist.org/news0800/biblequiz.html

 

[ralphinal]

Salaam/peace

stoning punishment u will find in Bible.

(Stoning To Death) “…, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, …shall stone him with stones, that he die” (Deuteronomy 21:20-21).

“For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death” (Mark 7:10).

& More

Bible Punishment Quiz

landoverbaptist.org/news0800/biblequiz.html

Muslim Woman, i bet you realize that the Landover Baptise Church website is a fake church made to make fun of Christians.

PLease tell me that you did not know that this is a site made by atheists to make fun of us.

Because I am about to die laughing that you cited it.

 

[cathopologist]

Muslim Woman, i bet you realize that the Landover Baptise Church website is a fake church made to make fun of Christians.

PLease tell me that you did not know that this is a site made by atheists to make fun of us.

Because I am about to die laughing that you cited it.

I especially chuckled at the Scientists Is Stupid! parody.

One needs to forgive Muslim Woman especially whenever she cites Ahmed Deedat and his likes for the sake of arguement. They won’t hesitate to cite sources like Land Over Baptist to prove their ‘point’.

 

[Chancellare]

Muslim Woman, i bet you realize that the Landover Baptise Church website is a fake church made to make fun of Christians.

PLease tell me that you did not know that this is a site made by atheists to make fun of us.

Because I am about to die laughing that you cited it.

I did not expect to laugh heartily out of things discussed in this thread but I sure did.
Jay Leno’s stand ups could even be more plausible.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

Muslim Woman, i bet you realize that the Landover Baptise Church website is a fake church made to make fun of Christians.

So , the answeres given there are all wrong ? There is no punihsment / death penatly regarding Bible ?

 

[eva6206213]

Thank you for the post!

 

[inJESUS]

Salaam/peace

So , the answeres given there are all wrong ? There is no punihsment / death penatly regarding Bible ?

the Bible is not the Quran. The Bible was written over a period of thousands of years, till the coming of the Messiah; there are laws specific to Jews and make a jew, a Jew. We are not Jews nor do we have to be Jews to follow Jesus. Revelation is progressive.

 

[benedictus2]

Muslim Woman, i bet you realize that the Landover Baptise Church website is a fake church made to make fun of Christians.

PLease tell me that you did not know that this is a site made by atheists to make fun of us.

Because I am about to die laughing that you cited it.

I especially chuckled at the Scientists Is Stupid! parody.

One needs to forgive Muslim Woman especially whenever she cites Ahmed Deedat and his likes for the sake of arguement. They won’t hesitate to cite sources like Land Over Baptist to prove their ‘point’.

I did not expect to laugh heartily out of things discussed in this thread but I sure did.
Jay Leno’s stand ups could even be more plausible.

I think it is fairly evident that all your points will be missed by Muslim Woman no matter how hard you try

 

[ralphinal]

Salaam/peace

So , the answeres given there are all wrong ? There is no punihsment / death penatly regarding Bible ?

The answers were taken in such a way as to make Christianity/Judaism look bad.

inJsus explained it best. In Christianity, we see the law of blood replaced with a law of love and forgiveness.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

I think it is fairly evident that all your points will be missed by Muslim Woman no matter how hard you try

lol . when some Chrisitians accuse we worship a rock or Muhammed (p) , can’t remember u told them not to do that.

Anyway , Jesus (p) told you OT is not a holy book to Christians anymore ? Jesus (p) told something like that I came not to change anything but to fulfill . So , how come all the laws in OT are forbidden ?

 

[ralphinal]

Salaam/peace

lol . when some Chrisitians accuse we worship a rock or Muhammed (p) , can’t remember u told them not to do that.

Anyway , Jesus (p) told you OT is not a holy book to Christians anymore ? Jesus (p) told something like that I came not to change anything but to fulfill . So , how come all the laws in OT are forbidden ?

Jesus came to FULFILL the Law, not end it. When something is fulfilled, it has reached it highest point and it may be complete. Complete does not mean ended. For example, when road construction is ended, the road BEGINS, it does not cease to exist.

The OT Laws are fulfilled in Christ. There is no more need to offer animal sacrifice to God for our sins. Further, he shifted the law from a blookthursty, eye for an eye, to a better way. A way of love and forgiveness, where we are not called to judge others and put ourselves in the place of God to punish them. The Ten Commandments still stand, as Christ made it clear they should. IN fact, he made them more all-encompassing, by adding our thoughts into what could be sinful.

I have decided that there is no logical reason to discuss anything with you. You are either unwilling or incapable to understanding what we are saying on here. However, I will not stop trying. Perhaps one day, the Holy Spirit will work on your heart.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

…I have decided that there is no logical reason to discuss anything with you.

Muslims & Christians have so many things in common
some Muslims thought like u & left this forum . Bad for you , though I several times thinking of leaving this forum , somehow came back.

.

I will not stop trying…

May God bless you for your patience for the lost soul.

.

Perhaps one day, the Holy Spirit will work on your heart.

Holy Spirit is an angel . Guidance come from God only .

 

[dzheremi]

Holy Spirit is an angel . Guidance come from God only .

It isn’t an angel, but if it were, wouldn’t this cause problems for you about the origin of the Qur’an? Remind us, please, who gave the Qur’an to Muhammad…it was God, through the angel Gabriel, wasn’t it? So why is that accepted about the Qur’an if angels cannot be used in this way, according to you? This is another problem created for you by a misunderstanding of the Trinity: The Holy Spirit is not separate from God, so it makes no sense to talk about it as though it is another guiding force that might perhaps not guide people as God would. If an angel can be used by God to guide Muhammad, then the Holy Spirit can guide us (including you) today.

Again, it seems that there are some things Muslims do not allow God to do, all for the sake of preserving Muhammad’s supposed exceptionalism. You should think about the implications of what you write. They are not good for your soul or your religion.