Answers from an Orthodox Jew

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How Orthodox Jews have come to read the prophecies of the Old Testament does ultimately boil down to the spirit of refutation since Rabbinic Judaism grew up in a world where Christianity came to be its main rival theologically (all the way up until Nicaea) where Christianity and Judaism were still fighting for the soul of the Abrahamic tradition in which, as historian Daniel Boyarin puts it,
“for at least the first three centuries of their common lives, Judaism in all of its forms and Christianity in all of its forms were part of one complex religious family, twins in a womb, contending with each other for identity and precedence, but sharing with each other the same spiritual food” - Dying for God: Martyrdom and the Making of Christianity and Judaism, p. 15.
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But you see, what Rabbinic Jews miss, and fundamentally anyone who doesn’t understand the meaning of the resurrection (Muslims included), is that the resurrection of Christ is a world shattering event by which everything is flipped on its head. The resurrection of Christ is cosmic, and through it the Holy Spirit has been poured out into the world, and so now it is as St. Paul says, “…the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” Even Christ himself said, “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth.”

Because Rabbinic Judaism doesn’t have this lens to look through, but rather other glasses through which it sees Christianity as its main rival, much of how prophecies have come to be interpreted are specifically to be in contrast with the Christian interpretation.
 
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thephilosopher6 said:
but rather other glasses through which it sees Christianity as its main rival, much of how prophecies have come to be interpreted are specifically to be in contrast with the Christian interpretation.
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This is the prototypical Christian worldview, in which everything exists only as either in consonance with or opposed to Christianity. Rabbinic Judaism is self-sufficient and does not exist in opposition to Christianity, but rather ignores it. That world-view is why historically Christians often portrayed Jews as subverters of their religion, when really we just wished they would just leave us alone…
thephilosopher6 said:
How Orthodox Jews have come to read the prophecies of the Old Testament does ultimately boil down to the spirit of refutation
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How utterly condescending.
 
Moses613 said:
This is the prototypical Christian worldview, in which everything exists only as either in consonance with or opposed to Christianity. Rabbinic Judaism is self-sufficient and does not exist in opposition to Christianity, but rather ignores it. That world-view is why historically Christians often portrayed Jews as subverters of their religion, when really we just wished they would just leave us alone…

thephilosopher6:
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Christianity is self sufficient through the resurrection of Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit, the foundation of our faith, just as Judaism is sufficient through the law given on Sinai to Moses. After the Temple destruction, Christianity and Judaism became the dominate competitors of the Abrahamic tradition. As it is seen in the 2nd and 3rd century writings of the Church Fathers, and how Rabbinic tradition came to developed, Rabbinic Judaism in its interpretation (I’m not speaking of the law or other traditions) developed specifically to be in contrast to Christianity.
 
I do have another question. What do Orthodox Jews believe about being the Chosen People? What exactly were they chosen for? And what happens to all the non-chosen people? What is the general view on this?
Thanks.
 
I want to learn about their beliefs and I have been doing well. Before the threads about Jewish life, all I knew was that in San Antonio, Texas the Jewish community had a bookstore and food store. The public school thought that the dreidel was used for gambling purposes. There were a number of Jewish people. I do not ask questions until I have enough knowledge to ask them. Obviously I do not know much and want to learn. Post your beliefs somewhere else so this thread can get back to the original purpose.
 
Where would be a good place to start if I wanted to find out about my potential Jewish Ancestry?
 
Moses613 said:
I wanted to show that we understand and reject it and there is a fundamental divide here, and that we have our own answer. But I don’t think I should continue in this vein much longer, if at all.
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Based on many of the answers there seems to be a basic lack of understanding on Christology, which is quite understandable. someone who is not Catholic often only has a kindergarten-level understanding of many of the concepts central to Catholicism. For example, God the Father in Christianity is not an old man with a long white beard; yet this is the understanding of many people looking in from the outside. So this is a good website to exchange understandings in a spirit of discussion and respect. The basic difference between Judaism and Catholicism from a Catholic point of view is that God’s revelation of Himself did not stop with Moses. It continued through the New Testament and fulfilled in Christ. it’s all about the truth, and God wanting not just some people but all people to have a share in His Eternal Life.
 
Have you had your DNA tested through Ancestry? That’s a good place to start. They give percentages as well as where your ancestors came from. I had it done. Very interesting.
 
I did and it came back negative for that. I suspect based on my research that it is possible my Father may have had Jewish Ancestors. But did not inherit the gene. Thank you for your advice though.
 
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Eh, that’s alwaya made me uncomfortable…

Giving over your whole genetic code to a for-profit institution? Not my cup of tea.
 
Gab123 said:
I do have another question. What do Orthodox Jews believe about being the Chosen People? What exactly were they chosen for? And what happens to all the non-chosen people?
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In Ex. 19:6 God says, “And you will be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” Israel was chosen to accept the yoke of the 613 commandments and function as the priesthood of humanity, teaching them to serve God and live ethically by setting the highest example.

God welcomes the service of all nations, as the verse says, Is. 56:7 “for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations.”

All humans who are not Jewish are obligated in 7 “commandments” which are really categories of law: Seven Laws of Noah - Wikipedia

A non-Jew may serve God as he is, and is under no obligation to convert to Judaism. When he lives righteously according to the 7 laws, he is given a place of reward in the afterlife.

Chosenness is not in essence denied to anyone. Non-Jews are also able to convert and become part of the chosen nation (I Chron. 16:13 “the sons of Jacob, His chosen ones”). A Gentile who converts to Judaism is as Jewish as a born Jew in every respect.
 
Moses613 said:
In Ex. 19:6 God says, “And you will be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” Israel was chosen to accept the yoke of the 613 commandments and function as the priesthood of humanity, teaching them to serve God and live ethically by setting the highest example.”_
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This is interesting, thanks for the reply. It has to be pointed out that the function of a priest is to offer sacrifice, and Judaism no longer has the priesthood. In the context of Catholicism, the Catholic Church has had the three levels of priesthood for the past 2,000 years that we see described in the Torah; namely the High Priest; the Ministerial Priesthood; and the Priesthood of the common people. Since the role of a priest is to offer God sacrifice, the High Priest in Catholicism is Jesus Christ who offers Himslef as the spotless Lamb of God, offering His body and Blood on the altar of the cross in reparation for the sins of the world. -Isa. 53:4-6

The _Ministerial Priesthood is made up of the popes, bishops and priests, all of whom offer the Sacrifice of the Mass every day everywhere in the world and minister to the people (the sacrifice of the mass is a participation in the One eternal sacrifice offered by Jesus Christ on the cross to His Father (recall the definition of the Trinity).

Jesus the Lamb of God described Himself as the Bread of Life the bread which came down from heaven, thus the Holy Eucharist is reserved in the tabernacle inside a Catholic church, the Eucharist is spiritual food that nourishes us on our spiritual pilgrimage from the slavery of the world through the desert of being transformed as we go to the promised land of heaven. The food empowers and strengthens us to unmask, uproot and remove everything in our heart that separates us from God (our personal sins and worldly attachments separates us from God).

The third level of priesthood is the Common Priesthood of the people, which is made up of the laity; we offer to God our daily actions, our thoughts, words and every action, uniting all our sufferings to the sufferings of Christ; the one and eternal sacrifice made on the altar of the cross almost 2,000 years ago…
 
Moses613 said:
God welcomes the service of all nations, as the verse says, Is. 56:7 “for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations.”
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Interestingly, the word “Catholic” means universal. the word “Church from the Greek Ekklesia, and the Hebrew Cahal (The People of God). the People of God are the people all over the world united in Christ. thus a physical Catholic church is a house of prayer, a temple where God dwells, regardless of the DNA of of the people. One doesn’t have to be of a certain race or ethnicity to belong. thus Christ founded His universal Cahal

From the point of view of Catholicism, the Chosen People of the Old Testament were chosen specifically to prepare the world for the coming of the Messiah. it’s not that they were genetically special, rather, they were chosen to be the vehicle through whom God Himself would bring forth the redeemer into the world. Thus God revealed Himslef to Abraham, who begot Isaac who begot Jacob; Jacob’s name was changed to Israel and Israel fathered 12 sons who became the 12 tribes of Israel; the tribes became a nation and the nation became enslaved in Egypt.

Moses is sent to lead the peope of Israel. The angel of death passed over the homes that were marked with the blood of the lamb; Moses leads the people out of Egypt, through the desert for 40 years on their way to the Promised Land, and while in the desert God gives them commandments, setting them apart from all other nations. bringing laws and detailed instructions for the priesthood, sacrifice, etc. shaping, molding, disciplining, preparing the people through whom the promised messiah would come into the world; prophets are sent, prophecies given, all to be fulfilled in the fullness of time.

When one reads the New Testament, all of the “typology” found in the Old Testament is reflected and fulfilled in the New Testament. for example Jesus is the Lamb of God; Jesus spent 40 days in the desert fasting; like the manna which fell from heaven, Jesus says He IS the Bread of Life who came down from heaven, etc. etc… In other words, the Old Testament Was a preparation for what was to come and be fulfilled. The Chosen People were chosen for that reason. Jesus fulfilled all the law and the prophets and through His blood we are cleansed and saved from death and become children of God and inheritors of His kingdom.

Jesus Christ splits history in two, reflected on our calendars today; and the spirit of evil that enslaved man and kept him in bondage with idolatry and sin (like “Egypt”) was broken and set free; empowered to say no to sin and to keep the commandments, to be clothed from on high with the Spirit of God to transform the world itself, reflected in the Judeo-Christian principles that have shaped this entire world for the better. However, Salvation History is still unfolding, and the prophecies that Christ made have been, are being and are yet to be fulfilled…
 
Gab123 said:
It has to be pointed out that the function of a priest is to offer sacrifice, and Judaism no longer has the priesthood.
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In the context of the verse it doesn’t, the entire nation is called priests. Here the priest is in the role of teacher.
Judaism still has a priestly class with their own laws but no longer offer animal sacrifices.
 
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A little paranoid, scarecrow? 😉
It’s actually very helpful to some people. Maybe you do not have questions about your heritage, but some people find it quite useful.
 
Oh, I acknowledge it’s cool- my maternal uncle did it, so I have a partial idea of mine.

I wouldn’t say paranoid… Facebook did it, what’s to stop Ancestry/23andme?
 
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