- Status
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SSPXwannaB
Guest
My theory is because it is the true church, Satan attacks it from every angle: using the atheistic humanists of the media and academia, many protestants, evil religions like jehovah’s Witnesses and satanism, and even some within our own Church (see Roger Mahoney and Vatican II ‘reforms’/ smoke of Satan has entered the santuary). Satan is clever; by attacking the Church from every angle he knows that he can recruit both the tatooed and pierced masses as well as the seemingly upstanding religious families for his diabolical scheme. For me, the attacks on the Roman Catholic Church from every angle is yet another proof that it is the Church that Jesus Christ established.
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PJM
Guest
***My dear friend in Christ Jesus,
May I respectfully suuget that we avoid name calling. Jesus would not have us judge anothers motives, but only there “fruits” [act’s].
To compare JW’s to “satinism” is I believe an error. The core motivation is signifiantely different.
One might be able witg God’s help to enlighten a JW. But only God’s persoanl and direct intervention will influence a “satanist.”
Charity is more than an idea, its a requirement of Cchristian practice.
Love and prayers, ***
S
SSPXwannaB
Guest
Not name calling, just telling the Truth: they are evil. They don’t believe in the cross, their Watchtower always puts down the RCC, they believe Jesus is an Angel, ‘a god’ and Abaddon. They don’t believe there is a hell, or in the trinity. They use the name of Jesus to suck people in and then they reduce Jesus to a created being. They rip families apart. They have killed many with their rules about vaccinations and blood transfusions.***My dear friend in Christ Jesus,
May I respectfully suuget that we avoid name calling. Jesus would not have us judge anothers motives, but only there “fruits” [act’s].
To compare JW’s to “satinism” is I believe an error. The core motivation is signifiantely different.
One might be able witg God’s help to enlighten a JW. But only God’s persoanl and direct intervention will influence a “satanist.”
Charity is more than an idea, its a requirement of Cchristian practice.
Love and prayers, ***
They are a tool of Satan. Wake up! I believe you are in error. Also you are in error when you state ‘there fruits’ instead of [their fruits].
Standing up for Jesus
A
abucs
Guest
I think maybe if you break away from the Catholic Church then you really have an incentive to view it negatively, otherwise you will always ask - why did i break away and should i still be away ?
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PJM
Guest
OK
WWJD?Romans 12: 14 "Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly; * never be conceited. Repay no one evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends upon you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it * to the wrath of God; for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord."
Friend do you think Jesus would approve of your post, or does that not matter:blush:
Love and prayers,
S
sancte_joseph
Guest
“No one outside the Church can be saved” is still something we believe it’s just been defined and i guess cleared up or open for interpretation… and we only follow Tradition not any old tradition… the bible is part of that tradition… remember that we are not like the muslims who believe that God actually wrote their koran… but rather the bible was inspired… and revelation doesn’t end at the death of the apostle saint john…
anyway… you are the perfect example of what the original poster was saying… you think you know stuff about the Catholic church… and that’s what you hate
L
ljubim
Guest
You are very lucky! Because believe me they’re out there, and very confrontational too. I’ve had the displeasure of meeting one
and everybody else just thinks he’s funny. But he’s dead serious. I remember once we (Catholics on our way to mass at a travel school tournament) were running down the hallway trying to get away from him yelling horrible anti-catholic things to us. And in front of the coach and both chaperones!!!Too true:thumbsup:As for the secular society in general, the main reason they HATE the church is because we refuse to bend on little matters like abortion and the normalization of homosexual relationships when most every other denomination has ***gone soft ***on at least one major moral matter.
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fbl9
Guest
Are you implying because i have my tractor inked on my arm i am a tool of Satan.
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PJM
Guest
***Dear friend in Christ, your lack of understanding is very typical of the Protestant Community.
The CC teaches that all salvation is somehow mysteriously connected to the CC as the first and only Church founded by Christ.***
As a Catholic I have never heard once in 65 years that me, you or anyone one else is “saved through the Mass,” although on a level you can’t comprehend for lack of Faith, many receive the graces necessary through the Mass and Jesus Himself.
Friend if the bible did not come from and through the CC where do you think it came from?
The CC is the only Church founded by Christ, has served God continously for 2,000 years,
the entire NT is written by people we would know today as Catholics, the CC was the ONLY Christian Church for 1,600 years, [and had the complete bible from about 400 AD]and set the Canon of the Bible abound the year 400. So if it did not come from us, who then Luther in 1.650:shrug:
It is not the CC making claims of infallibility and Authority. It is God Himself, and if Protestants would use the entire Bible as God intends, they might with God’s help figure this out. If you used the entire Bible you would know that it clearly sates not everything we need is in the bible.[Jn. 21:23] and Tradition is demanded in at least two different places.
Here are but a very few parts of the bible oyu choose to ignore:
Mark 3: 13 “And he went up on the mountain, and called to him those whom he desired; and they came to him. 14 And he appointed twelve, to be with him, and to be sent out to preach and have authority to cast out demons: Simon whom he surnamed Peter; James the son of Zebedee and John the brother of James, whom he surnamed Bo-anerges, that is, sons of thunder; Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.”
Eph. 2:19 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”
Mt. 28: 18 “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” And then there is that pesky Mt. 16:15-19 and 18: 15-18]
2 Cor. 4: 2 “We have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways; we refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God’s word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing."
1 Tim. 3:15 “if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, [singular] the pillar [singular] and bulwark of the truth. [singular] Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of our religion:”
Eph. 4: 4 “There is one body [One Church] and one Spirit, [One set of beliefs] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, 5 one Lord,[One God] one faith, [One set of doctrine and dogma] one baptism, By water in the Trinity] 6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore it is said, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.”
2 Cor. 13: “8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth.”
Gal. 2: “5 to them we did not yield submission even for a moment, that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.”
John 14: 16 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.
John 17:16 "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth." God has done this for no other church, only His CC!
Love and prayers,
K
KingTheoden
Guest
To the opening poster:
Christ said that the world hated Him long before the world hated us. Yes, much of ‘pop culture,’ media, and secular activities run contrary to God’s church. The simplest way to explain this is that true orthodox Catholics come to understand that we must stop thinking about what we personally want, but rather what Jesus wants for us.
I am very glad to hear that you are looking to join the Church. As a former (lapsed) Protestant, I can personally witness to you that you will find more beauty and wonder than you can imagine once you become a Catholic.
As an asside, finding a good, solidly reverential parish is a big plus. Mine is Novus Ordo, but it is not your stereotypical NO fare. It’s good stuff! I attended daily mass for months after Confirmation and that was so important to helping me get past (or at least get better at) some things holding me back.
To Kalos, and I will try to be understanding:
Ask three fundamentalists about various parts of Christianity and without a doubt three unique customized answers will come back. Some will reject Baptism. Other will reject the Trinity perhaps. Some make even wilder statements about space aliens.
Christ always respected rightful priestly authority even when he performed miracles. It is just common sense that an organizational heirarchy is needed to prevent the pick-a-flavor religion that has become Protestantism.
Salvation that is a free gift (grace) by God by sending His Son as atonement for our sins. He cleared the way, now we are to follow.
Furthermore, that we still conduct the Mass is to say that we still have our duty to honor God on the proper day. Until Jesus returns, there will be Mass offered. Suggesting that we claim that our work somehow necessitates salvation is very, very incorrect.
Usually however, it is wise to rely on centuries of developed doctrine that has helped fleshed out moral implications of Scripture. While on the topic, keep in mind that Scripture is not the only ark of faith; oral tradition was and is a vital and equally sanctifying well.
Again, keep in mind that the Bible was canonized by the Church. Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches will use non-canonical books, which we Catholics sometimes reject and other times take a stance that though possibly true, we cannot be sure they were inspired writings.
Protestants reject parts of the Bible that Martin Luther had problems with. In fact, Luther wanted to cut out even more (such as that pesky Letter from St. James regarding works and how we need to live our faith). For over 1,000 years, the Church had a work of inspired writing and one man decided, on his own, that he knew more than hundreds of brilliant and guided scholars and theologians who came before him.
A big part of the Church is accepting authority. My preferences take a back seat to Christ’s. And since He is not with us as a man anymore (for now), He left a framework for shepherds to tend His sheep in the meanwhile. I think this concept of submission could be the toughest for Protestants and once overcome the opening of floodgates.
Christ said that the world hated Him long before the world hated us. Yes, much of ‘pop culture,’ media, and secular activities run contrary to God’s church. The simplest way to explain this is that true orthodox Catholics come to understand that we must stop thinking about what we personally want, but rather what Jesus wants for us.
I am very glad to hear that you are looking to join the Church. As a former (lapsed) Protestant, I can personally witness to you that you will find more beauty and wonder than you can imagine once you become a Catholic.
As an asside, finding a good, solidly reverential parish is a big plus. Mine is Novus Ordo, but it is not your stereotypical NO fare. It’s good stuff! I attended daily mass for months after Confirmation and that was so important to helping me get past (or at least get better at) some things holding me back.
To Kalos, and I will try to be understanding:
Christ told Peter that His church would stand up against the gates of hell. In terms of morals and dogma, the Church represents the fullness of the faith. And its consistancy testifies to this.
Ask three fundamentalists about various parts of Christianity and without a doubt three unique customized answers will come back. Some will reject Baptism. Other will reject the Trinity perhaps. Some make even wilder statements about space aliens.
Christ always respected rightful priestly authority even when he performed miracles. It is just common sense that an organizational heirarchy is needed to prevent the pick-a-flavor religion that has become Protestantism.
Hold on. NOTHING was ‘given up.’ What VII intended to iron out was the incorrect assertion held by a small few that it was impossible to enter Heaven without being a formal member of a parish. To this extent, it is quite possible for a poor soul in North Korea who cannot know Christ but who is led and lives by the Holy Spirit to gain salvation. But just because this is possible does not mean it is common. This concept has been incorrectly applied to suggest that Protestants are saved. This liberal view is dangerous to Catholics who become indifferent and to Protestants who think that the Church has given to them a pass to go on.
Salvation that is a free gift (grace) by God by sending His Son as atonement for our sins. He cleared the way, now we are to follow.
Furthermore, that we still conduct the Mass is to say that we still have our duty to honor God on the proper day. Until Jesus returns, there will be Mass offered. Suggesting that we claim that our work somehow necessitates salvation is very, very incorrect.
Imprecise and loaded. Read below.
Again, a loaded and incorrect characterization. Developing a fuller understanding of doctrine is an organic and expected process. Guided by the Holy Spirit, this has happened and will continue. Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament is a wonderful example of how the Holy Spirit can work through the Church from the ground up. The TLM liturgy was also an organic, guided gift that came from the bottom up.
This is ipso facto wrong, we will quote the Bible - we don’t like one liners as others do because such is an inappropriate and incorrect use of Scripture.
Usually however, it is wise to rely on centuries of developed doctrine that has helped fleshed out moral implications of Scripture. While on the topic, keep in mind that Scripture is not the only ark of faith; oral tradition was and is a vital and equally sanctifying well.
It is not ‘our traditions’ but rather the fulfilment of Christ’s promises that His church entrusted to Peter (the rock, not pebble, but rock) would never fail (that does not mean everything that happens within it will be perfect). The Holy Spirit guides the Church today as it has from the time of St. Peter and the first leaders.
Again, keep in mind that the Bible was canonized by the Church. Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches will use non-canonical books, which we Catholics sometimes reject and other times take a stance that though possibly true, we cannot be sure they were inspired writings.
Protestants reject parts of the Bible that Martin Luther had problems with. In fact, Luther wanted to cut out even more (such as that pesky Letter from St. James regarding works and how we need to live our faith). For over 1,000 years, the Church had a work of inspired writing and one man decided, on his own, that he knew more than hundreds of brilliant and guided scholars and theologians who came before him.
A big part of the Church is accepting authority. My preferences take a back seat to Christ’s. And since He is not with us as a man anymore (for now), He left a framework for shepherds to tend His sheep in the meanwhile. I think this concept of submission could be the toughest for Protestants and once overcome the opening of floodgates.
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Sword_Brethren
Guest
Wrong
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PJM
Guest
***Friend, I did not deny that it was true [nr do I admit that it is]. What I shared is that your comments were unchairatble, unnecessary and that Jesus Himself would not have said it, therefore neither should you. Some things are better left unsaid.
11 "Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.* "You are the salt of the earth; but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trodden under foot by men****.
Love and prayers,
Pat**
M
mpjw2
Guest
Hi all,
It saddens me deeply when we as christians start debating their beliefs among each other and one believes in their heart they are right and the other is wrong.
Sometimes the debates get esculated into what this thread is all about…a feeling of
anti-catholicism
and/or in due respect
anti-non catholicism (“protestant”)
being christian, I want to apologize for any hurt which has been caused by any comments which have been said which have caused one to feel the other is anti their faith
I am sure I made some comments in my lifetime which have hurt someone
May God forgive us all of our sin.
I am not here to debate who is right and who is wrong, but to bring attention to a bigger problem which I am concerned with…
**how does the outside lost world view us christians?
why would they want to join christianity where one family is feeling anti against one another?**
please note the 2 threads I started addressing my concern to the non-catholic community and to all christians …
to non-catholics
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=375301
to all christians
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=376665
I believe you will agree with the posters in these threads my concern is a legitimate one and this need to be said and braught to our attention.
so where to we go from here?
can anyone come up with a better solution than tweetymom posted in one of the threads she replied to me in
God bless you all with her words of encouragement
My prayer is that you are blessed by her message just as much as I was.
Originally Posted by tweetymom
It saddens me deeply when we as christians start debating their beliefs among each other and one believes in their heart they are right and the other is wrong.
Sometimes the debates get esculated into what this thread is all about…a feeling of
anti-catholicism
and/or in due respect
anti-non catholicism (“protestant”)
being christian, I want to apologize for any hurt which has been caused by any comments which have been said which have caused one to feel the other is anti their faith
I am sure I made some comments in my lifetime which have hurt someone
May God forgive us all of our sin.
I am not here to debate who is right and who is wrong, but to bring attention to a bigger problem which I am concerned with…
**how does the outside lost world view us christians?
why would they want to join christianity where one family is feeling anti against one another?**
please note the 2 threads I started addressing my concern to the non-catholic community and to all christians …
to non-catholics
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=375301
to all christians
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=376665
I believe you will agree with the posters in these threads my concern is a legitimate one and this need to be said and braught to our attention.
so where to we go from here?
can anyone come up with a better solution than tweetymom posted in one of the threads she replied to me in
God bless you all with her words of encouragement
My prayer is that you are blessed by her message just as much as I was.
Originally Posted by tweetymom
AmenI wish we would act like Christ would have us act me included in love and charity. We will never all agree until we see Jesus face to face and I believe it will be so glorious
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PJM
Guest
mpjw2-Hi all said:
***Friend, we live and a very imperfect world with very imperfect people. I am all in favor of Charity, even in excess if that is even possible. But one has a moral obligation to share The Truth. That by itself is not the problem.
The problem lies in the logical fact that there can only be One Truth for any and every specific issue. There in is the source of friction. Everybody thinks they are right and the others are wrong.
Unlike our Protestanr Brethern who are permitted, even encouraged [so it seems to me] to have and share that they choose to hold “as truth” we Catholics have to teach in accordance with the CC, which is Bible based, and God Blessed. So if we are sharing the truth? It is from God and His Church through us, and we MUST be in “communion” with the Pope and the Catholic Magesterium. We are not permitted our personal opinions on matters of Faith and Morals, which God in His Wisdom has seem to place in the Teaching purvue of His CC***.
***Ignoring truth does not change it. And we fail in our mandate from God [Mt. 28: 19-20] if we choose to simply be quiet. Speaking the TRUTH too is a form of charity.
Like you, I pray that it will be done with patience, tolerance, as much understanding as God grants to us, and always with Love and Charity.***
Love and prayers,
Pat
C
Ceil-1
Guest
Thank you, mpjw2. I believe you are closer to the truth than our friend SSPXguy who calls his fellow human beings a tool of satan, while failing to see his own failure to live the Gospel.
The purpoose behind the rites and rituals of the Faith is to facilitate our transformation into Christ and bring the Kingdom of God to the world through others’ experience of God through us. They are a means to an end, that is, Jesus Christ. Instead, they are treated to our self-centered arrogance at “being right”. Many think the rituals are ends to themselves, and treat others with hostility, and ostracism if they are the least bit reticent.
Sadly, people are too willing to sacrifice charity to promote their attachment to a certain way of expressing these means. There is a certain spiritual blindness brought on by the spiritual pride of “doing it right”. Those who participate do not know, neither do they care that they are going against the Will of God by causing divisiveness through disobedience and lack of charity and good will. They are right, and the “other guy” is in deep trouble. It is very troubling. The devil’s craftiest trick yet.
But, let’s face it, when it comes down to it, we will be judged according to the mercy we have shown others. We could win the whole world were we to take on the humility of St. Francis, regarding others as better than ourselves and preaching the Gospel with our examples. Far too few of us live this way. That is why Christianity is failing.
The purpoose behind the rites and rituals of the Faith is to facilitate our transformation into Christ and bring the Kingdom of God to the world through others’ experience of God through us. They are a means to an end, that is, Jesus Christ. Instead, they are treated to our self-centered arrogance at “being right”. Many think the rituals are ends to themselves, and treat others with hostility, and ostracism if they are the least bit reticent.
Sadly, people are too willing to sacrifice charity to promote their attachment to a certain way of expressing these means. There is a certain spiritual blindness brought on by the spiritual pride of “doing it right”. Those who participate do not know, neither do they care that they are going against the Will of God by causing divisiveness through disobedience and lack of charity and good will. They are right, and the “other guy” is in deep trouble. It is very troubling. The devil’s craftiest trick yet.
But, let’s face it, when it comes down to it, we will be judged according to the mercy we have shown others. We could win the whole world were we to take on the humility of St. Francis, regarding others as better than ourselves and preaching the Gospel with our examples. Far too few of us live this way. That is why Christianity is failing.
R
rinnie
Guest
Because look at the Bible what did Jesus tell you. He said the world hates me and they will hate you. Because I am not of this world and neither are you.Hey everyone. The more I look into the Catholic faith, the more I realize that people in general just don’t like it. All I’ve seen were extremes; you either love it or you hate it. I haven’t really seen many in-betweens yet, especially among protestants. Personally, I love God’s church and look forward to joining it.But… why do so many people hate it? The Catholic church seems to get twice as much hate as protestantism and other religions. Maybe it’s just because the area where I live is mostly dominated by Baptists and non-denominational protestants. Still, they even seem to have a bad rep online.
God told you the devil will do his best to tear down the true church. BUt Jesus also said he will never do it.
Look a Jesus, how much love did he get? The Church will always be hated just like there will always be people who hate Jesus. But all we have to do is worry about ourself. ANd we love the Church because we know who the Church is. Jesus told us in the bible He is the Church.
M
mpjw2
Guest
Pat my box only has 15 messages stored…i welcome your message
Pat I understand everything you are saying and i respect you for it.
God does not want you to be a closet christian ans as you said…
guess what?
non catholics believe also…
correct. and God only knows who is believing in truth and who is believing in false truth
and while we debate our differences on these forums all we can do is pray like you said…
and maybr take a little love form what tweetymom said…
God bless you
R
rinnie
Guest
Remember too that we go by the teaching’s of the Apostles. Who got it staight from the Mouth of Jesus Christ.
The Apostles teach that the Church is ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND APOSTOLIC.
So if the Mormon church is all that you got made. But we both know it is not called the Catholic CHurch it is called the Mormon Church
The Apostles teach that the Church is ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND APOSTOLIC.
So if the Mormon church is all that you got made. But we both know it is not called the Catholic CHurch it is called the Mormon Church
M
mpjw2
Guest
Thank you Ceil like you I believe we as christians are in trouble, something has to change…But, let’s face it, when it comes down to it, we will be judged according to the mercy we have shown others. We could win the whole world were we to take on the humility of St. Francis, regarding others as better than ourselves and preaching the Gospel with our examples. Far too few of us live this way. That is why Christianity is failing.
how else are we going to win losts souls to Jesus Christ??
do we continue to keep our focus on stand on the truth and morals and continue our debates with one another
or
be silent, let God be God, trust Him and let our actions of love for Him towards others be a witness to our faith and morals we believe in.
that is why I started this thread
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=376693
I invite all who love Jesus to let your love shine in this thread.
This thread I believe addresses the missing link between all christianity’
God bless
- Status