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Leslie_Polley
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Sorry here I was talking to Drawmack, not Javis
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Leslie_Polley
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Randy_Carson
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Leslie-
It appears that you think the Catholic Church has done something unbiblical or worse, anti-biblical, by requiring that priests and bishops of the Latin Rite be celibate.
I’d like to offer some scriptural support for the Church’s position.
Celibacy of the Catholic Priest Supported by Scripture
Many people believe that the Catholic Church violates the Word of God because it forbids people to marry (cf. 1 Timothy 4:3) and that it is wrong for priests to remain celibate. To get a clearer picture of this issue, let’s examine what the Bible has to say about the subject of celibacy.
Matthew 19:11-12
11Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
Jesus offers the celibate life as a gift and tells us that “The one who can accept this should accept it.”
1 Corinthians 7:1
1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.
1 Corinthians 7:7
7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
Paul reveals his own celibacy and offers an earnest wish that more people would follow his example.
1 Corinthians 7:8-9
8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
Paul concedes that getting married is better than struggling with sexual temptation; for those that “cannot control themselves, they should marry.”
Is Paul completely opposed to marriage? Not at all. The book of Hebrews states:
Hebrews 13:4
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
Why then does Paul recommend celibacy?
1 Corinthians 7:32-35
32I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.
From this passage, we can see Paul’s primary reason for advocating celibacy: he wants everyone to live in undivided devotion to the Lord, and in all of these verses, the Bible makes it clear that Jesus calls some men to the priesthood and offers them the gift of a celibate life to be lived in undivided devotion to God. Paul understands that not everyone is offered this gift and that not all to whom it is offered can or will accept it.
There are Catholic priests who are married; typically, these are men who were priests in the Anglican, Orthodox or other faith traditions and have converted to the Catholic faith after they were married in those churches. Under special circumstances, they may be ordained to serve as Catholic priests. Men who are already Catholic when they begin to discern their call to the priesthood must remain celibate.
The Catholic Church forbids no man to marry. However, she does desire that those who will represent Christ, who will stand in persona Christi (in the place of Christ) when administering the sacraments as priests, be like their Lord as fully as possible. This means that like Jesus, they are celibate men prepared to sacrifice their own lives in the service of God and others.
The calling and the gift is offered by God; those who choose to accept it do so freely. Here is an article, “Celibacy is a Gift”, that explains this more fully: catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0102fea5.asp
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Leslie_Polley
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Just to respond to you (I would agree that damning the whole religion because of a few misguided woulds would be horrible right?) Absolutally. I do not have the power to damn any to hell or get them in heaven…that is our choice. That is where our free will kicks in.
As for the debate…you call it a debate…as to argue…I thought that this was conversations in trying to understand others points of view. I will agree to disagree with you however. Could you give me the chapter and verse paul said that. I now we are not to cast our pearls before swine, and to shake the dust from our feet and leave, I would just like to know where this is. I could not find it.
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pismopal
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I am inclined…personally, to read the Bible…the works of the early Church fathers and doctors…saints and Apostles or/and the Catechism of the Catholic Church regarding my religion and who God is and even what God is than a novel written in the 21st century by a man who has no other credits than being a skilled writter. Maybe I am missing something but I don’t think so:shrug:rinnie; “The Shack,” is a delightful work of fiction, written by William P. YoungAlthough the story is not true, it is based on real events that happened in Mr. Youn’s life. Many have been beguiled by the representation of God as a large, happy, compassionate black woman, who is always singing, and cooking! And they say that Mr. Young is attempting to redefine the Godhead(???). I asked somebody who was having trouble getting past the author’s depiction of god as a black woman this question:" Would you ever have told your children, that Santa Claus was black?" “Heck no,” they reply! “Why not,” I ask? Because he wasn’t," they reply. "How do you know, he wasn’t/isnt?"End of discussion
Bottom line is; it’s about who God is, not what He is! The author ties up all the loose ends at the end, and you can go to www.shackbook.com, join an interactive chat group, and get answers to all questions you might have
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Leslie_Polley
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Thank you, you proved my point. nowhere does it say a priest cannot marry…celibacy is a choice… Why has there been a debate about changing the Church law and allowing priests to marry. I have known 2 priests that had to leave the priesthood so they could marry. One of them was my math teacher in California…Father Fabian…Another was a friend of the family. They said that they where excommunicated from the church because of that, and that is what we were always taught. Excommunication in the church meant hell. However that is a church law and not in the word. I would like to thank you however because you accually tookk the time to dig in the Word and find some great scriptures. I really surprised me Randy. Before you have been very sarcastic, and I was in return. This was acctually nice. What it boils down to however is that God said yes and the church said no, or there would be married priests, at least 2 that I know of anyway. One other thing…Celibacy is a choice, not a gift.
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Thing
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I have known that fact for a long long time, I think the last time I heard it was from the Pope.
It ‘sort of’ first appears in Acts, which may have been written around 64ad or later when a man was said to follow the way of the Lord.
Simultaneously to Acts, and at around the same date
, by implication the Church, and its message is described by St. Peter in his Epistle as being catholic, universal, in nature.St. Ignatius is known now as the first to have recorded the name ‘the Catholic Church’ in writting, around about 110ad; but of course St. Ignatius was describing the Church he already knew well; he was taught his faith by St. Polycarp and St. Polycarp in turn was a disciple of St. John the Apostle.
So you see, for myself at least, I am called Catholic because St. Peter was catholic and St. John was Catholic, St. Polycarp was Catholic, St. Ignatius was Catholic and so on…
Um…the last time I was in Rome was about the summer before last… I ran up and down the Cuppola on St. Peters a couple of times, I fed the fish in the park, I ate orange gelato on the funny bridge, and dodged the traffic going back for more…
Ciao
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Leslie_Polley
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I did not sayanything about your husband except I DID NOT THINK YOU COULD SWEAR IN THIS FORUM…I don’t care if he drinks a keg, and drinking with the “deaon” certainly does not impress me. Get a grip girl. Your husband drinks and swears. He swore here and you said he was drinking…I did not.
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Prieldedi
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Are you saying that the Ten Commandments had no effect on Kings? There is no Commandment that says “Do not commit adultery… unless you are a King.”
Now, if one is to reject his/her church because of the sins of some of its members, what about Christianity as a whole? Should we “abandon ship” (Christianity) because the sins of Judas (treason), Peter (denial of Jesus), Thomas (disbelief), Paul (murder) and the sins of the rest of the Apostles (denial of Jesus, cowardice), plus the sins of all Christians for the last 2000 years?
Aren’t we all, including Popes, SINNERS? Isn’t that (your sins, my sins, the Pope’s sins) the reason Jesus offered His blood for?
I can use you own argument and say “it does not mean that God was pleased with the Pope. Like so many men with power the Pope fell and discovered that all was for nothing” too. And according even to Protestants, a Pope has power, doesn’t he?
It was Paul who said “it is better to be single , but if you cannot stany away from sex, it it better to marry than burn”, not Jesus. Besides, Paul did not condemned celibacy, in fact he said it’s better!
Celibacy goes with priesthood, just like turkey goes with Thanksgiving Day, it’s a decision that was made by those in AUTHORITY (you don’t like that word I’m sure), and if as a man you like women and can’t remain celibate, don’t go into priesthood! Please, get marry and have a family but don’t be a priest! It’s like the army: if you don’t like to march at 5:00am don’t be a soldier.
Luther couldn’t remain celibate, that’s part of the reason he did what he did.
God bless you
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heathernoel
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Not said to impress. Merely a cultural difference.
I will bow out.
I was raised better than this.
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Karen1960
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Celibacy is a displine, a vow, that a Catholic Priest is to fully understand prior to recieving Holy Orders.
If he feels that he would not be able to do this, the young man** must** reconsider becoming a Priest.
St. Paul said it quite well, when he said, it is better to remain celibate for the Lord, but if one can not it is better he marry then fall into sin.
(Protestants seem to twist this into St. Paul said they have to marry.)
Also St. Paul also said being unmarried is more able to concentrate on things for God, rather then caring for the needs of a wife and children, which would understandably take away from God and his duties as a Priest.
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Javl
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I understand your position, Leslie. But please don’t throw away the silverware because a
couple of pieces are tarnished. In this case you are profiling. I and many other do not
do this. we take each individual at face and do not judge the whole by that individual
( unless of they are cultists ). So please re-think your comments. In answer to your
question, the answer is no, and the Church teaches this. Anyone who says otherwise does not know what they are talking about. God Bless.
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Leslie_Polley
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Oh did you have an audiance with the Pope. I would think that would be rather hard to get. kudos to you. Did you go to Piazz San Pietro? Where were some of the places you went. I have family there. I do not speak Italian, but they are geat interpreters. How did you get to the Vatican City. what streets did you take? Did you take Via Gregoria V11?I have known that fact for a long long time, I think the last time I heard it was from the Pope.
It ‘sort of’ first appears in Acts, which may have been written around 64ad or later when a man was said to follow the way of the Lord.
Simultaneously to Acts, and at around the same date
St. Ignatius is known now as the first to have recorded the name ‘the Catholic Church’ in writting, around about 110ad; but of course St. Ignatius was describing the Church he already knew well; he was taught his faith by St. Polycarp and St. Polycarp in turn was a disciple of St. John the Apostle.
So you see, for myself at least, I am called Catholic because St. Peter was catholic and St. John was Catholic, St. Polycarp was Catholic, St. Ignatius was Catholic and so on…
Um…the last time I was in Rome was about the summer before last… I ran up and down the Cuppola on St. Peters a couple of times, I fed the fish in the park, I ate orange gelato on the funny bridge, and dodged the traffic going back for more…
Ciao
I love to drive there. Where did you go in Vatican city…Did you see the musei Vatecani, They have a great Resuiant Degie. Did you eat there or did you pack your lunck. Where did you feed the fish…what bridge are you talking about. Did you see Piazza Pio X11? I love to go there and spend time. My family lives ouside Rome. I would love to hear all about your visit with the Pope and all the places you went in Vaticani City. Where did you stay…hotel, B&B, someones home…thats kind of fun, but hard to do unless you know someone. Lets talk
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Javl
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And as an “ex-catholic” were you taught to be so condemning and abrasive in your
your remarks? Whether or not you were once Catholic is of no concern at present to me.
I am making a generalized statement to inform all that the rule of “sola scriptura” has
splintered Christendom. I need no documents to back this statement. It is a well known
fact. And what you call logical fallacy is only in your eyes. I don’t know what is the cause of your so evident bitterness, but please use a bit of charity, humility and kindness in your responses to all.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
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Javl
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Leslie: there are two sides to the Catholic Church. The Western Church and the Eastern Church. In the Eastern Catholic Church, a priest may chose to be married or celibate. Many of the Eastern Rite priests are married and just about as many are celibate. In the Western Church it is a matter of discipline, Priests all take a vow to obey the rule of
celibacy voluntarily. They are not forced to do so. If they want to marry then they cannot
be priest in the Western Rite. In this instance many join the Eastern Church. So you can
see, celibacy is a discipline and a vow to be celibate is taken voluntarily. No one is forced. And, believe it or not, to be a celibate IS a gift from God. God Bless.
P.S. These priests were excommunicated because they did not receive dispensation or release from their vows. Also to be excommunicated does NOT mean condemnation to
hell. The Church has never taught that. That is among the many myths, lies, and mis-
conceptions, that are prevalent among non-Catholics.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Alechem
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Thing
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yesnothardIDidNotNeedATicketyesTrasteverePalatineHillBigBathsAppianWayCatacombsSanCalistoChurchofSaint*ParksForumSenateLaternBasilicaVaticanCryptsVaticanSecretArchivesStadioOlimpicoMuseumsPalacesDTheatreAndManyMoreIWalkedToVaticanCityEverystreetIDoNotRecallIYesCookAllMyOwnFoodIFedTheFishNearTheVialeMarzoFestaDellaDonnaBesideTheVillaDoriaPamphiliTheBridgeOnTheViaSanPioXPiazza Pio X1DoNotRecallITookAnAppartmentIWasTaughtNotToTalkToStrangers
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Leslie_Polley
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Thank you for your kindnness and caring comments.
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Leslie_Polley
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Oh at first I thought you went on a tour. You took and apartment. How nice. How long did you live there. TRalking to strangers is he funn of Italy. you just have to use wisdom.
You have to forgive me but it is very difficult to read what you wrote.
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1beleevr
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