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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
You might want to add “Attend Pride Events” too.
Anti-gay message in Catholic parish bulletin sparks outrage
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
You used pictures too, right?
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BlueMaxx
Guest
When I read this thread…and think of the current state of our Mother Church and of our Priests…I cannot help but think of this verse…
1 Peter 5:8 King James Version
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour
1 Peter 5:8 King James Version
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour
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adgloriam
Guest
@theCardinalbird In this case “they” refers more precisely to a transversal rhetoric that is dominant, specific and easily characterized, profoundly political and militant, seeking in turn to politicize, and especially to influence. Let’s not forget that there are LGBT organizations issuing “official statements” and posing to speak for the entirety of the sexual-identity group/community they claim to represent.
Indeed, the aforementioned organizations seek not only to further their political agenda locally but globally. They are endowed with million dollar budgets and have been known to invest money abroad spreading their discourse and ideology having strategic ends as an aim.
So, @theCardinalbird don’t let anyone lecture in terms of rhetoric if in turn the vision they themselves represent is reductive and partial (giving only a biased view pointing away from how things really work.)
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adgloriam
Guest
NO. I used every mean available to me.adgloriam:
You used pictures too, right?
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Thorolfr
Guest
Just like it’s silly to talk about the “LGBT community” as if it’s one monolithic entity, it’s silly to pretend that all or even most LGBT pride parades are the same. A parade in San Francisco is going to be quite a bit different than one in a smaller town or in a more conservative part of the country. The one in my town is quite tame. There’s never any nudity. The local high school marching band participates in the parade and most of the students in the band probably aren’t even gay. We also always have contingents of gay Catholics along with contingents from the local Methodist church. The Lutheran Church I attend is going to send people to March this year. Parade sponsors usually include various local businesses as well as banks, insurance companies, etc. These parades have become quite commercialized lately.
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Thorolfr
Guest
It’s true that LGBT organizations like the Human Rights Campaign or GLAAD issue statements and try to influence people. But that’s hardly unique to the LGBT community. There are lots of organizations that issue statements and try to influence people. I’m sure that Church Militant, for example, issues statements and tried to influence people. I’m not sure how much most Catholics would consider it to represent their views, however.
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MarthaSo
Guest
and some would have been on the side of the baker too hopefully.
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adgloriam
Guest
I honestly appreciate your contribution @Thorolfr precisely because it is a first hand account. And that is what enriches most, the testimony. In the exact same way you’ll always be the first person I spoke with who was raised “Southern Baptist”.
I’ll leave your testimony stand exactly as it is, because I find it correct. And diverse…!
I would note, that in our conversations any form of rhetoric sophisms should expunged because that is exactly what falsifies an exchange by introduction of captiousness.
I’ll leave your testimony stand exactly as it is, because I find it correct. And diverse…!
I would note, that in our conversations any form of rhetoric sophisms should expunged because that is exactly what falsifies an exchange by introduction of captiousness.
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adgloriam
Guest
This is also, a burden we both share - to denounce and deconstruct those influencers that are unethical and misleading, seeking only to sow discord - their sin is of lie and detraction, leading, in turn, to misunderstanding and hate.
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MarthaSo
Guest
Are you saying that the LGBT groups like the ones you mentioned have differing views from yourself for example. Are there LGBT groups that disagree with one another like some Christian groups? Are they well known.
When you mention Church Militant you did that to show that groups with the same general interest may have disagreements with one another. Is there an example of that in the LGBT Community? Or several examples?.
When you mention Church Militant you did that to show that groups with the same general interest may have disagreements with one another. Is there an example of that in the LGBT Community? Or several examples?.
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adgloriam
Guest
They were. The verdict was the baker could not be forced to make a cake against his beliefs. However, he could not discriminate in the sale of the generic cakes he had already made and were on sale to the general public.
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GordonP
Guest
Of course, there are. Why ever would you think there are not?
A good case in point was the controversy among LGBT leaders and supporters about whether to take the Obergefell case to the Supreme Court. A lot of them thought that it was an unwise move, and that the Court could hand down a decision that would set back the strides the movement had made for decades.
Yes, there are disputes within the community over politics, strategies, tactics, philosophy and, of course, religion.
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adgloriam
Guest
Dear @(name removed by moderator),
I think it is correct that the wedding be advertised if such be the wish of the participants and their families.
We can parallel this with JPII, having known both oppression and censorship of Nazism and Communism he was incredibly liberal in his understanding of humanity and especially in inter-faith dialogue. He thought peace, dialogue and communion, by far outweigh any visibility (plausible to be confused with legitimizing) he might himself lend by receiving those persons.
We, however, are confronted with these realities. Which, perhaps, we would rather not be faced with. In no small part, because of the (quite significant) personal challenge they represent to our understanding. To acting and speaking, correctly, according to the will of God, when faced with these realities, and persons.
We could say: it is not my problem. And that would be correct, except for the spirit of charity impelling us to seek those persons lovingly. For what we will find is meaning, and truth, in charity itself.
[The issue in the OP is entirely different of this my esteemed friend. The reasons prompting the position of the priest writing in the bulletin more likely than not are connected with the public exaltation of perversions like BSDM for example (to name only one), which are also common sights present in the mentioned parades. However, the issue of attraction pertains to the inner most of our nature, and that is something for another thread entirely…]
God bless.
I think it is correct that the wedding be advertised if such be the wish of the participants and their families.
We can parallel this with JPII, having known both oppression and censorship of Nazism and Communism he was incredibly liberal in his understanding of humanity and especially in inter-faith dialogue. He thought peace, dialogue and communion, by far outweigh any visibility (plausible to be confused with legitimizing) he might himself lend by receiving those persons.
We, however, are confronted with these realities. Which, perhaps, we would rather not be faced with. In no small part, because of the (quite significant) personal challenge they represent to our understanding. To acting and speaking, correctly, according to the will of God, when faced with these realities, and persons.
We could say: it is not my problem. And that would be correct, except for the spirit of charity impelling us to seek those persons lovingly. For what we will find is meaning, and truth, in charity itself.
[The issue in the OP is entirely different of this my esteemed friend. The reasons prompting the position of the priest writing in the bulletin more likely than not are connected with the public exaltation of perversions like BSDM for example (to name only one), which are also common sights present in the mentioned parades. However, the issue of attraction pertains to the inner most of our nature, and that is something for another thread entirely…]
God bless.
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MarthaSo
Guest
Thanks for your response. I know individuals often disagree even in the same groups. What I was wondering was if there were groups or associations that are LGBT that have differences in philosophy like Catholics vs Protestants for example. But I did my own research and found the Catholic group Courage but then I realized they are a Catholic group and not LGBT group. You mentioned of course there are, I was just wondering which ones they were.
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GordonP
Guest
I don’t think you’ll find any two LGBT organizations that agree on absolutely everything. And even within each organization, you will have factions that disagree among themselves.
I’m really having a hard time understanding why you would think that LGBT organizations are as monolithic as you seem to. While there may be broad agreement over many key goals, there are, of course, disagreements about how to achieve these goals. And on which goals are more important than others. And how to best spend resources and time. Etc, etc, etc…
That is true for all movements. Christians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Conservatives, Liberals, Neo-Fascists, animal rights advocates, environmentalists, the tobacco lobby, all movements have internal disagreements.
Why ever would you think that the LGBT rights movement would be any different?
I’m really having a hard time understanding why you would think that LGBT organizations are as monolithic as you seem to. While there may be broad agreement over many key goals, there are, of course, disagreements about how to achieve these goals. And on which goals are more important than others. And how to best spend resources and time. Etc, etc, etc…
That is true for all movements. Christians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Conservatives, Liberals, Neo-Fascists, animal rights advocates, environmentalists, the tobacco lobby, all movements have internal disagreements.
Why ever would you think that the LGBT rights movement would be any different?
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MarthaSo
Guest
Everything you’ve stated is correct, I was curious as to which groups they were, it might make it easier for me to understand.
I’m sorry you’re having a hard time understanding as you’ve stated.
I’m sorry you’re having a hard time understanding as you’ve stated.
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GordonP
Guest
There are thousands of LGBT organizations across the world, and hundreds within the US alone. Here’s a partial list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LGBT_rights_organizations_in_the_United_States
I doubt that you will find any two that agree on everything. Some will favor some tactics and strategies over others. Some will pursue prioritize some goals over others. Some are conservative, some are liberal, some are apolitical. Some are ardently religious, others are ardently secular. Some concentrate on Gay men’s issues, others on Lesbian or Transgender issues. Some concentrate on practical matters like health and taxation, others on more philosophical matters. Some focus on local concerns, others on global concerns.
And few of them are monolithic themselves, but have internal disagreements, as well. And they also evolve over time due to changing circumstances. So grow, others shrink or go extinct. Mergers and splits occur over agreements and disagreements.
Really, the only thing they all have in common is that they want to further the rights of LGBT people.
Like I said, the best example of a major disagreement was whether to take Obergefell to the Supreme Court. It was a very bold move that could have had disastrous consequences had it not worked. A lot of LGBT leaders, maybe even most, were opposed to the move. There were even some who did not want Marriage Equality at all, as they considered marriage a heterosexual construct that was not suited for the LGBT community. There was a lot of debate over the issue.
There is currently a lot of debate over the nature of transgender rights. Or how Bisexuals fit into the picture. Or about matters connected with religion. And, of course, about public image and public relations. And how the LGBT should interact with and support other civil rights organizations. Or how to interact with various religious or political groups.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LGBT_rights_organizations_in_the_United_States
I doubt that you will find any two that agree on everything. Some will favor some tactics and strategies over others. Some will pursue prioritize some goals over others. Some are conservative, some are liberal, some are apolitical. Some are ardently religious, others are ardently secular. Some concentrate on Gay men’s issues, others on Lesbian or Transgender issues. Some concentrate on practical matters like health and taxation, others on more philosophical matters. Some focus on local concerns, others on global concerns.
And few of them are monolithic themselves, but have internal disagreements, as well. And they also evolve over time due to changing circumstances. So grow, others shrink or go extinct. Mergers and splits occur over agreements and disagreements.
Really, the only thing they all have in common is that they want to further the rights of LGBT people.
Like I said, the best example of a major disagreement was whether to take Obergefell to the Supreme Court. It was a very bold move that could have had disastrous consequences had it not worked. A lot of LGBT leaders, maybe even most, were opposed to the move. There were even some who did not want Marriage Equality at all, as they considered marriage a heterosexual construct that was not suited for the LGBT community. There was a lot of debate over the issue.
There is currently a lot of debate over the nature of transgender rights. Or how Bisexuals fit into the picture. Or about matters connected with religion. And, of course, about public image and public relations. And how the LGBT should interact with and support other civil rights organizations. Or how to interact with various religious or political groups.
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MarthaSo
Guest
So within Christian groups like Church Militant and Catholics, the Catholics should denounce and deconstruct influencers etc… I was just wondering, since we have an example in the Christian community if there was a similar example among LGBT groups, where one feels they need to denounce the other group. It may be a shocking “I can’t believe you’re even asking this question” it may be an ignorant question but I’m sincere in my query.
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MarthaSo
Guest
ok thank you for your thoughtful response and the information.
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