Anti-Mexican Hatred disguised as patriotism

[Sailboat]

I was posting at another forum for awhile, but quit yesterday because I noticed again and again that alot of the anti-immigration talk was really hatred for Mexicans. The post that finally got to me said that the solution was to shoot them and pile up their corpses.

Now I’d like to see some better enforcement of immigration laws. I think that the children of illegals born in the U.S. should NOT be given U.S. citizenship unless one of the parents is a citizen. I think our social welfare system encourages not only foreigners to take advantage of it, but also discourages our own poor people from seeking the employment that supposedly we need foreigners for. I also think that we should really come down on employers.

But I think alot of people despise Mexicans in this country. I think they hate them. I think people say other reasons for not wanting Spanish spoken, or immigration, but basically they just can’t stand Mexicans.

 

[Dale_M]

Nativism has a long history in the United States (and in other nations too). Whenever there has been an influx of immigrants from one particular country, a backlash of anger by citizens born in the U.S. has resulted. Irish, Germans, Italians, Chinese (in California) have all been targets. And yes, nativism often goes under the guise of patriotism: America for Americans.

I think the hatred you are sensing is not rooted deeply, but is the manifestation of fear: the fear that the country is being substantially changed and that they will become “foreignors” in their own nation.

 

[Sailboat]

Nativism has a long history in the United States (and in other nations too). Whenever there has been an influx of immigrants from one particular country, a backlash of anger by citizens born in the U.S. has resulted. Irish, Germans, Italians, Chinese (in California) have all been targets. And yes, nativism often goes under the guise of patriotism: America for Americans.

I think the hatred you are sensing is not rooted deeply, but is the manifestation of fear: the fear that the country is being substantially changed and that they will become “foreignors” in their own nation.

Thanks for the reply. I was really upset by what read. I also notice here at this site less explicit posts about the Mass in Spanish and Mexicans in the church that seem resentful, as if the American church shouldn’t reach out to Mexicans. What do you think of that?

 

[rlg94086]

Sadly, there are people who think that way, but it’s hard to get a grasp on the percentage. I hope I am right in believing it is a vocal minority, but it’s always hard to tell. Some people are overtly anti-Mexican, others mask it like you said. The problem is that these people, no matter how many they are, cause others to paint anyone who wants better border control as racists.

As far as Mass in Spanish, I’m kind of mixed on that. In general, I believe in doing things in English and helping new immigrants learn our language. The beauty of the Mass, is that you still can participate even if you don’t know the language. I will be in The Netherlands next month and will attend Mass twice. My guess is it will be in Dutch, but that doesn’t mean I can’t pray and receive the Eucharist. If I were moving to The Netherlands, I would learn Dutch.

That said, I’m not bothered by Mass in Spanish at a local parish. I just hope that parish also offers English lessons for it’s parishioners…wouldn’t that be a great way to help them out in their new country?

Thanks for the reply. I was really upset by what read. I also notice here at this site less explicit posts about the Mass in Spanish and Mexicans in the church that seem resentful, as if the American church shouldn’t reach out to Mexicans. What do you think of that?

 

[geezerbob]

My personal observations are that what we are seeing is not hatred as much as it is annoyance that this group of immigrants, legal or not, is demanding and getting all sorts of concessions that no previous group has gotten. Some things are indeed irritating and I can understand at least some of the anger.

Those who are here without family do tend to crowd way too many people into a rental house so they can send more money back home. That money never makes its way into our economy. This practice also has some undesired effects on the neighborhoods.

Smaller annoyances include calling a business and being asked to press 1 for English.

The Hispanics didn’t exactly endear themselves to the rest of the population when they hoisted Mexican flags above public buildings and burned American flags during their demonstrations a few month ago, either.

I guess what can be seen as hatred is sometimes annoyance at some of the things these people are doing rather than out-and-out racial hatred.

My :twocents:

 

[theguidedheart]

Nativism has a long history in the United States (and in other nations too). Whenever there has been an influx of immigrants from one particular country, a backlash of anger by citizens born in the U.S. has resulted. Irish, Germans, Italians, Chinese (in California) have all been targets. And yes, nativism often goes under the guise of patriotism: America for Americans.

I think the hatred you are sensing is not rooted deeply, but is the manifestation of fear: the fear that the country is being substantially changed and that they will become “foreignors” in their own nation.

America has never been a WHITE country, although ‘we’ try and believe otherwise because we have been the oppressors and the dominant makeup of this nation- and we tell the lie so often we start to believe it… America for Americans is simply a PC way of saying America is for whites - and I would hope to God that Catholics of all people could see the problems with this type of viewpoint. Of course I did not read the original posts that were responded to, so don’t know what group was saying that. But Catholicism is probably the most international organized institution in the world, with the greatest diverse membership - I hope when there is backlash about these types of ignorant viewpoints, that American Catholics will be the first to jump on board and say we won’t take it - white, black, yellow, brown together. Of course I am a bit opptomistic when it comes to our faith and what we stand for

Peace,
tgh

 

[rlg94086]

The poster you responded to didn’t mention anything about “WHITE” or the color of anybody’s skin. Nativism has to do with those who are already here (black, white, asian, etc.) having suspicion and/or animosity toward newcomers from other lands. For example, the Irish weren’t trusted or liked…they were white.

America has never been a WHITE country, although ‘we’ try and believe otherwise because we have been the oppressors and the dominant makeup of this nation- and we tell the lie so often we start to believe it… America for Americans is simply a PC way of saying America is for whites - and I would hope to God that Catholics of all people could see the problems with this type of viewpoint. Of course I did not read the original posts that were responded to, so don’t know what group was saying that. But Catholicism is probably the most international organized institution in the world, with the greatest diverse membership - I hope when there is backlash about these types of ignorant viewpoints, that American Catholics will be the first to jump on board and say we won’t take it - white, black, yellow, brown together. Of course I am a bit opptomistic when it comes to our faith and what we stand for

Peace,
tgh

 

[theguidedheart]

Thanks for the reply. I was really upset by what read. I also notice here at this site less explicit posts about the Mass in Spanish and Mexicans in the church that seem resentful, as if the American church shouldn’t reach out to Mexicans. What do you think of that?

Well remember, Catholicism is not an AMERICAN faith… its universal, so for a group to say we should not embrace Spanish Mass, is to try to make claim to something that isn’t theirs. This isn’t even mentioning the fact that within the Hispanic population, Catholicism is more than likely the most dominant faith, so why NOT try to reach out to them? The faith is as much theirs as it is any other groups… the least parishes could do is offer 2 masses in each of those respective languages, especially since the Hispanic population is well on the way to being the second highest group in this nation, and Spanish is undoubtably the second most used language.

You know places like Belgium don’t seem to have these problems, where there are 3 or 4 native languages, I think 3, could be as many as 4, can’t remember excatly…

Peace,
tgh

 

[Sailboat]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, Geezer, I totally understand what you’re saying. I feel that same annoyance myself and I think Mexicans here should be more respectful.

Rlg, I agree with you. Yes I think the Church should encourage Mexicans to learn English by reaching out to them with English classes. This would help them to progress towards more success on their part.

 

[Sailboat]

Guided Heart, you are incorrect, we have an American branch of the Catholic Church, with our own Conference of Bishops that sets certain policies unique to our country. I agree that ultimately the Church is universal, however, but the American Bishops have some autonomy in certain matters.

 

[theguidedheart]

The poster you responded to didn’t mention anything about “WHITE” or the color of anybody’s skin. Nativism has to do with those who are already here (black, white, asian, etc.) having suspicion and/or animosity toward newcomers from other lands. For example, the Irish weren’t trusted or liked…they were white.

Right, I understand that, but I think a majority of the anti-Mexican tones you hear are coming from ‘White American’… I am white and I happen to believe there is some truth in that, we can dance around the facts all day long, but really when it comes down to it the overly protective attitude you hear about in this nation often comes from ‘white america’… not intentionally, but I think subconsciously there is an effort to protect something we for some reason or another see as ours to give out… not the worlds to take part in.

I could be wrong, just a personal thought.

Peace
tgh

 

[theguidedheart]

Guided Heart, you are incorrect, we have an American branch of the Catholic Church, with our own Conference of Bishops that sets certain policies unique to our country. I agree that ultimately the Church is universal, however, but the American Bishops have some autonomy in certain matters.

Sure when it comes down to setting rules and upholding them, the Church is divided, but thats to give reasonable control over a world-wide faith… spiritually though, we are universal, and its not an American faith.

Thats my only point…

Peace,
tgh

 

[theguidedheart]

As far as Mass in Spanish, I’m kind of mixed on that. In general, I believe in doing things in English and helping new immigrants learn our language. The beauty of the Mass, is that you still can participate even if you don’t know the language. I will be in The Netherlands next month and will attend Mass twice. My guess is it will be in Dutch, but that doesn’t mean I can’t pray and receive the Eucharist. If I were moving to The Netherlands, I would learn Dutch.

This is a great point, I have been to masses in Vienna and Belgium and it was GREAT to hear the Mass in those native languages, it did not bother me, and the great thing was the presence of God was still felt, regardless of whether I understood every word. But it is also nice to hear the homily and be able to understand it, so I wouldn’t be able to attend Mass regularly knowing that I could not follow along with the homily - I guess there becomes a point where learning the native language becomes one of the responsibilities of moving to a new country.

Peace,
tgh

 

[st_lucy]

I think the thing I find the most annoying. Is that those people who claim that Mexicans are taking over everything, don’t ever seem to remember that Hispanics were the first Non American here. Being a Hispanic I find it so hard to hear people complaining about Mexicans being here. Yes there are plenty of Mexicans who don’t make very good citizens but I really resent all hispanics being lumped in the same boat.

The Hispanic culture has a long history here in the US and I think that needs some consideration. I know in my own history I can trace my family to mid 1600’s who came here to the US. Where I am from it is natural to speak both english and spanish. I know I for one have been chasitsed by people for not being an American, because I speak spanish. If only people were to actually look back at history they would realize that I am not only American but problably more American than they are.

I fear that with all this hate of Mexicans our country will go back to when in the mid 1900’s the goverment would round up any hispanic they saw in the street and send them on a bus back to Mexico. Some if not most of those shiped back to Mexico had never even been there before and would spend many years trying to get back to families here in the US.

Well that is just my two cents.

 

[theguidedheart]

I fear that with all this hate of Mexicans our country will go back to when in the mid 1900’s the goverment would round up any hispanic they saw in the street and send them on a bus back to Mexico. Some if not most of those shiped back to Mexico had never even been there before and would spend many years trying to get back to families here in the US.

Well that is just my two cents.

Worth at least 10 cents I think a whole lot more… you make a good point - it seems like there is this misconception that the only kind of Mexican in this country, is an illegal one. Its annoying… we should be able to first of all appreciate what Mexicans bring to the American culture, and the contributions they make to our nation… for one, there is a fair amount of Mexicans in IRAQ right now, with their life on the line for this country, and they deserve the same benefits as any other legal citizen here. A legal Mexican in this country, is no different than any other legal American, and its time people stop being so protective of something that isn’t theirs, but OURS.

Peace,
tgh

 

[theguidedheart]

Worth at least 10 cents I think a whole lot more… you make a good point - it seems like there is this misconception that the only kind of Mexican in this country, is an illegal one. Its annoying… we should be able to first of all appreciate what Mexicans bring to the American culture, and the contributions they make to our nation… for one, there is a fair amount of Mexicans in IRAQ right now, with their life on the line for this country, and they deserve the same benefits as any other legal citizen here. A legal Mexican in this country, is no different than any other legal American, and its time people stop being so protective of something that isn’t theirs, but OURS.

Peace,
tgh

By the way, I mean OURS as in belonging to Americans, not ours as in any particular race… I love this country because you can’t say I’m American because I’m white. America has no set color, and its a great advantage if we learn to use it as one.

Peace,
tgh

 

[rlg94086]

Excellent points. There is no reason to lump all Hispanic people in one group…many aren’t even of Mexican descent, but for those who are ignorant (and I don’t mean that as a prejoritive, just factually ignorant), if they are speaking Spanish, they are Mexicans. Many people have Hispanic ancestory from families who arrived in the 1600s, as you mentioned…even if they are not technically Hispanic (as in my case).

However, the language issue isn’t a historical issue - it’s a practical one. The common language in the US is English, so everone should learn it. Speaking to friends and family in another language is great, but businesses really should have employees who speak English and signage in English (as well as a second language along side, if they want).

My latter comment makes sense from a business standpoint, as well. You will be more successful as a business if you appeal to the broadest market possible.

I think the thing I find the most annoying. Is that those people who claim that Mexicans are taking over everything, don’t ever seem to remember that Hispanics were the first Non American here. Being a Hispanic I find it so hard to hear people complaining about Mexicans being here. Yes there are plenty of Mexicans who don’t make very good citizens but I really resent all hispanics being lumped in the same boat.

The Hispanic culture has a long history here in the US and I think that needs some consideration. I know in my own history I can trace my family to mid 1600’s who came here to the US. Where I am from it is natural to speak both english and spanish. I know I for one have been chasitsed by people for not being an American, because I speak spanish. If only people were to actually look back at history they would realize that I am not only American but problably more American than they are.

I fear that with all this hate of Mexicans our country will go back to when in the mid 1900’s the goverment would round up any hispanic they saw in the street and send them on a bus back to Mexico. Some if not most of those shiped back to Mexico had never even been there before and would spend many years trying to get back to families here in the US.

Well that is just my two cents.

 

[Anduril11623]

I’ve learned lately that “Patriot” is really a very fancy word for nativist, fundamentalist, racist bigotry for the ugliest sort. I have less and less esteem for anyone involved in the “Patriot” movement and not much has changed my mind in the opposite direction. This, of course, is not to be confused with “patriot,” people who do love their country for the right reasons.

That said, the problem is that people on both sides of the immigration issue are using it to advance their own agendas and it makes it hard to discuss the issue on a rational basis without first having to defend one’s motivations and intent. (at least this has been my personal experience)

Anduril11623

 

[Dale_M]

I also notice here at this site less explicit posts about the Mass in Spanish and Mexicans in the church that seem resentful, as if the American church shouldn’t reach out to Mexicans. What do you think of that?

The Order of Saint Benedict came to the United States primarily to minister to the German immigrant community. Of course, mass was in Latin, but everything else in the parish was in German. I think many churches serving immigrant communities had a similar aversion to English. But, of course, those immigrant communities went on to assilmilate into the wider American population.

I agree with rlg94086: Spanish language mass is a important welcoming step and offering assistance to learn English is an important step in helping immigrants even further.

 

[KathleenElsie]

When I was a teen. The first of the Cuban refugees came into Miami. I was in Sr High School at the time and my family was not “well” off. I babysat for spending money and made my own dresses and skirts. We were not handed anything and asked for no handouts. I worked hard for a scholarship so I could be the first to graduate with a BS. (was first in line because of grades and still did not receive it)

I tutored some of the Cubans in school (African Americans were still kept out of the schools early 60’s), but, African Cubans (they came from another country) were allowed in. (right or wrong this caused tensions between them and riots) The Cuban families were given a money allotment and any child over 16 years of age got their own allowance from our government. They dressed better then most of us nd drove new cars.

When it came to the scholarships they went to: white males (it was the draft) and then they went to the Cubans. Anything left went to the rest of us. I joined the Air Force and then got my degree through the GI bill. I took things as they were.

But, I can understand how some people and did become resentful of the give aways to non-citizens when those left out have played by the rules. Both sides have some legitimate complaints. We need to come to a fair solution for all involved.